[X] My Assistant

Question:

How does the "Most players will recieve a discount. To guarantee a good discount, submit a proxy bid of your true maximum before the last day of the auction." Works if everytime i saw the original 2% discount for early bidding looks to be not working?

I Won:

[Mat53] 50000 Monster Cuisine (seller: serorin) piyin 335k Proxy bid after #13, 7c per mat; winning for 71.8h / 72.0h; -0.2%


Aka: 328300 c

But instead of that...

From Super's auction, you have won:
50000 Monster Cuisine
Base price: 335k
Discount: 1k (71.8h / 72.0h)
= 334k

...

Any idea?

Discount of 0.2% means: 335k * .998 = 334.33k (all fractional discounts get rounded up to 1k, to the buyer's benefit)

How does the "Most players will recieve a discount. To guarantee a good discount, submit a proxy bid of your true maximum before the last day of the auction." Works if everytime i saw the original 2% discount for early bidding looks to be not working?

It is working, it's just very small. But that's a good thing - it means that fewer players are being rude and sniping now compared to in the past.

The main purpose of the discounts is to distribute the fees collected from snipers to all the other bidders, to continually prove that I'm not try to get any profit off of it. If there are few snipers, then there is little fee revenue to distribute. It's meant to be a self-balancing system. The discount is not intended to be substantial (even though it sometimes is, and no one can be certain beforehand how much it'll be), it's just my attempt at trying to make things seem more fair.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Mar 31 2018, 17:56

Discount of 0.2% means: 335k * .998 = 334.33k (all fractional discounts get rounded up to the nearest 1k, to the buyer's benefit)
It is working, it's just very small. But that's a good thing - it means that fewer players are being rude and sniping now compared to in the past.

The main purpose of the discounts is to distribute the fees collected from snipers to all the other bidders, to continually prove that I'm not try to get any profit off of it. If there are few snipers, then there is little fee revenue to distribute. It's meant to be a self-balancing system. The discount is not intended to be substantial (even though it sometimes is, and no one can be certain beforehand how much it'll be), it's just my attempt at trying to make things seem more fair.

Sorry to pointing this out... but:

Someone who bids at the last minute and accumulates no winning time will be on the hook for the full charge of 8%. Anyone who is winning an item for at least half of the auction duration will receive the full discount. Someone winning an item for 1/4th of the auction duration won't be penalized, but won't get a discount either.

The discount amount between 1/2 and 1/4th is a linear function, as is the penalty between 1/4th and 0.

I think 1/4th (~18 hours) is a good separator between those who get discounts and those who get taxed; for someone who's going to bid the most for the item, winning it for at least 1/4th of the time shouldn't be hard, even if it's hotly contested. (and potential winners can try to get even more of a discount by winning it for longer, which they'll probably do at least for ease of mind)

I want to make it so that each auction is revenue-neutral, rather than (for instance) manually adjusting percentages and deadlines as behaviors change. So while the maximum penalty will stay at 8% (which only the rudest bidders are likely to incur), the maximum discount will vary depending on how much sniping there is. I can only guess, but since people will probably quickly adjust their behavior to avoid sniping now that the rule is in place, the maximum discount may well end up being pretty low compared to 8%, since there probably won't be much revenue to take from the snipers.

(Which would be a good thing - it would be great if everyone bids before the end and there's no need for any penalties or discounts. A new equilibrium the same as before but without people sniping would be ideal)

It might end up like:

Duration winning | End price
100% | -2% (Discount)
50% | -2% (Discount)
40% | -1.2% (Discount)
30% | -0.4% (Discount)
25% | 0 (Same as end price)
20% | +1.6% (Tax)
15% | +3.2% (Tax)
10% | +4.8% (Tax)
5% | +6.4% (Tax)
0% | +8% (Tax)

That's the current plan. Soon (before Friday) I'll integrate the info for each bidder next to items on the forum, and onto the bid times page.

The specifics aren't incredibly simple, but the general idea is. Bid early, get discount. Bid a while before the end, no penalty. Intentionally wait until the very end, high penalty.

Maybe I'm taking this all a bit too seriously but I think a solid system with positive incentives for everyone coordinating is worth working for.

There it says 2% not 0.2%.

If i messed my maths anywhere, tell me where.

sorry to point it out, but... which part of "it might end up like this" does not qualify that as a mere example, with random numbers?

also, from the same post you quoted and surely read carefully:
[indent]

I want to make it so that each auction is revenue-neutral, rather than (for instance) manually adjusting percentages and deadlines as behaviors change. So while the maximum penalty will stay at 8% (which only the rudest bidders are likely to incur), the maximum discount will vary depending on how much sniping there is. I can only guess, but since people will probably quickly adjust their behavior to avoid sniping now that the rule is in place, the maximum discount may well end up being pretty low compared to 8%, since there probably won't be much revenue to take from the snipers.

/indent]


if you look at graphs, total revenue from taxes is quite low (less than 300k on the whole auction), and that has to be spread between all customers, in proportion to final bids and bidtimes. with such a long item list, it's quite unlikely to earn a ~10k discount on a 300k bid...

Check out that section you quoted:

I want to make it so that each auction is revenue-neutral, rather than (for instance) manually adjusting percentages and deadlines as behaviors change. So while the maximum penalty will stay at 8% (which only the rudest bidders are likely to incur), the maximum discount will vary depending on how much sniping there is. I can only guess, but since people will probably quickly adjust their behavior to avoid sniping now that the rule is in place, the maximum discount may well end up being pretty low compared to 8%, since there probably won't be much revenue to take from the snipers.

(Which would be a good thing - it would be great if everyone bids before the end and there's no need for any penalties or discounts. A new equilibrium the same as before but without people sniping would be ideal)

and especially note this part:

It might end up like: ...

I was not promising certain discount amounts there for all auctions, I was showing an example of what the discounts would look like if the auction in question results in a full discount rate of 2%.

Check out this page:

[reasoningtheory.net] https://reasoningtheory.net/bidtimes214906

This time, there were 287k in fees collected, but the sum total of everything sold came out to 164.3m, of which maybe 150m or so was subject to the full discount rate - but distributing 287k onto what's already 150m isn't a large percentage at all.

sorry to point it out, but... which part of "it might end up like this" does not qualify that as a mere example, with random numbers?

also, from the same post you quoted and surely read carefully:
[indent]/indent]
if you look at graphs, total revenue from taxes is quite low (less than 300k on the whole auction), and that has to be spread between all customers, in proportion to final bids and bidtimes. with such a long item list, it's quite unlikely to earn a ~10k discount on a 300k bid...

Indeed, i read that.

Basically, this part:

the maximum discount will vary depending on how much sniping there is. I can only guess, but since people will probably quickly adjust their behavior to avoid sniping now that the rule is in place, the maximum discount may well end up being pretty low compared to 8%

Means that the more sniping the best for discount? Right?

So it means as it wont be as much S around the auctions = the discount is smaller.

instead, if there is a lot of S, We end up with bigger discounts... right?

or as this part points:

(Which would be a good thing - it would be great if everyone bids before the end and there's no need for any penalties or discounts. A new equilibrium the same as before but without people sniping would be ideal)

and this:

Bid early, get discount. Bid a while before the end, no penalty. Intentionally wait until the very end, high penalty.

But (the part i have the most doubts), Why not point out that those arent base discount but instead variable ones?

100% = From 0.1% to 2%

That way this can be undertable.

Everytime i check the link in the auction, i read 2% discount for more than 50% of the bidding time...
I dont read anything lower or variable.

Also: what is the criteria related to the sniping behavior? Last time bid with having ever bidding over an item? or had bidding over and item when the auction start but find out someone tried to snip it and then bid and get the penalty?

First one: pretty sure it works that way.
Second: not sure.

Did i get right how it works?





This post has been edited by piyin: Mar 31 2018, 18:49

Check out that section you quoted:
and especially note this part:
I was not promising certain discount amounts there for all auctions, I was showing an example of what the discounts would look like if the auction in question results in a full discount rate of 2%.

Check out this page:

[reasoningtheory.net] https://reasoningtheory.net/bidtimes214906

This time, there were 287k in fees collected, but the sum total of everything sold came out to 164.3m, of which maybe 150m or so was subject to the full discount rate - but distributing 287k onto what's already 150m isn't a large percentage at all.

Superlatanium, i read your post and you are right:



You never promised "discount amounts", just a %.

Also i never understand in which cases the full 2% will be applied (apparently). i thoguht the 2% would work for all the auctions... not considering the variablility of the auction price fluctiation and the general rate of sniping bids... which... for some reason i had to be aware for.

Sorry for bother you... now i get thath 2% there is just theorical, not a base discount.

P.S. It would be good to add a "<=2%" on that part of the post.

New members can find it easy to get... specially those that dont read and only check the discount for early bidding.

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