[X] My Assistant

Define "doable" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
I can go non-imperil cold, but it takes a lot of turns compared to imperiled.

4/1 radiant with almost fully forged tempest willow destruction staff(>40% rolls)

4/1 radiant with almost fully forged tempest willow destruction staff(>40% rolls)

Imperil is almost always better for elemental mage. There is one player who has a much better set than yours, fully forged, with lots of damage perks, and he told us a while ago that non-imperil was faster for element willow.

P.S.: you might want to change your sig (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

This post has been edited by DJNoni: Apr 1 2019, 22:58

Imperil is almost always better for elemental mage. There is one player who has a much better set than yours, fully forged, with lots of damage perks, and he told us a while ago that non-imperil was faster for element willow.

P.S.: you might want to change your sig (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

i figured willow was the only way to do non-imperil. i don't need it to be as good as dark/holy but i was just wondering if wind element was capable of doing non imperil if i have 1.0 prof and the 20-30% counter resist from the willow staff. though i would be sacrificing cast speed since i have all radiant gear.

P.S.: you might want to change your sig (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

It's because he was using a rapier, not a proper curved sword.

If you don't have the deprecating prof perk yet I'd get that. Imperil helps a lot in DWD.

Even for 1H players?

Even for 1H players?

Imperil helps.

But perk...
I haven't seen much difference (if any), but my proficiency was already high (450, <level> + 47) before buying the perk.
And my collected data shows pretty much the same number of debuff resists before and after...

Experience may be better if your proficiency is low...

This post has been edited by tox01: Apr 2 2019, 07:24

Imperil helps.

But perk...
I haven't seen much difference (if any), but my proficiency was already high (450, <level> + 47) before buying the perk.
And my collected data shows pretty much the same number of debuff resists before and after...

Experience may be better if your proficiency is low...

Huh...
I've seen a much better imperil success rate after buying the depr prof perk (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Same here. Counter-resist much appreciated.

i have a small budget to spent.


is it worth to get DD 2 and 3?
(or just go for the token/crystal perk instead)


or it would be better to change/ forge my armor? (mage)


TODO:
1. IW Cap jugg4/5
2. idk


thankssss (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

This post has been edited by yukikiss: Apr 2 2019, 14:13

is it worth to get DD 2 and 3?

Well, that depends. For mages are those of course much better as for melees. And for those with more damage of course better as for those with less damage. So, i would say if you play mage and can spend the hath, go for it. If you dont play mage and also have still other, cheaper ways to increase your damage, do those first. And when you allready did everything else to increase your damage, keep in mind, the difference will be propably not as big as you would wish it were.

We should separate debuff's resist (proficiency) and evade (magic hit chance).
And we are talking about melee without Aether Shard (increases magic hit chance) usage. Mages should provide real data and all their changes in equipment.
Don't buy perk, start using Aether and say that "it's much better".

At level 401 I had 447 Deprecating Proficiency without perk.
At level 403 I had 450 Deprecating and I bought the perk (proficiency became 495).
At that point I didn't see much improvement (if any), no radical ("wow") changes. Pretty much the same landing chance, same number of turns, same time.

But let's throw all the feelings out of the window and look at my data.

20 days before Deprecating Magic Proficiency Hath perk
Arena The Trio and the Tree: resisted count - ~91.65, Imperil used count - ~170.6
Arena A Dance with Dragons: resisted count - ~183.45, Imperil used count - ~357.85

20 days after Deprecating Magic Proficiency Hath perk
Arena The Trio and the Tree: resisted count - ~84.55, Imperil used count - ~165.75
Arena A Dance with Dragons: resisted count - ~161.8, Imperil used count - ~338.65

Last 20 days (before 2019.04.02) with Deprecating Magic Proficiency Hath perk
Arena The Trio and the Tree: resisted count - ~83, Imperil used count - ~162.45
Arena A Dance with Dragons: resisted count - ~169.15, Imperil used count - ~338.5

PFUDOR GrindFest
Level 396, 442 Deprecating: resisted count - 1299, Imperil used count - 2291, monsters - 8347
Level 422, 517 Deprecating: resisted count - 1238, Imperil used count - 2267, monsters - 8362

=====
At levels 300+ there were times when Imperil landing chance was bad. Maybe at that time effect from perk would have been stronger.
But with levels and without perk it got better for me.

But, as you can see, data shows that there is some change. Perk? Random?

Provide real data, not feelings.

Provide real data, not feelings.

You say that as if Hath perks are a toggle.
How you play (i.e. how many imperils you use) is going to vary person to person.
There's too many variables to account for, unless you are specifically going in to get data in order to test the efficiency of the depr prof perk.

And how many people are going to do that?

For melee, Token II >> Crys II & III >> DD2 >> Supportive Magic Proficiency & Deprecating Magic Proficiency?

Will supportive perk have a noticeable effect?

And what is the reasonable price for absorption? Who buys absorption? Never saw anyone buying it.

Supportive Magic Proficiency & Deprecating Magic Proficiency?

Will supportive perk have a noticeable effect?

That is a good question. And i would say dep prof isnt really important enough to actually spend 1k hath for it. I mean in the end you will reach 500 someday anyway and after that it is only a matter of time until you reach a point when at least most of your imperil doesnt get resisted. Even when of course those stupid dragons are a different story. And sup prof? Well, the only thing it would only do is reduce your mana usage, and allready with IA3 and 122.9 interference i am with 541.925 sup prof allready down to an upkeep of 1.42 MP/round. -Wow, didnt even notice that i got allready below 1.43. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) - So tbh i dont really see the point in buying sup nor dep perks as melee.

And what is the reasonable price for absorption? Who buys absorption? Never saw anyone buying it.

You mean the scrolls? Tbh i have no idea who buys them, or why even someone would want that. I did try them out for a while and they are just useless. I mean you get 4 credits for them from the item shop and you need to use several of them to save even a single mana draught, and those you could sell for 2 credits. So spend around 6 or 7 times four credits so save two credits, is no good deal. And they also dont even save you from critical hits iirc, also sometimes you wait quite a while until they are actually triggered and they are single use. Completly useless and no, i dont have remember who were speaking of absorb as something melee should use so they dont need magical mitigation. I wont tell his name, but if you are reading this, i really dont think you are a smart person. I really dont. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

That is a good question. And i would say dep prof isnt really important enough to actually spend 1k hath for it. I mean in the end you will reach 500 someday anyway and after that it is only a matter of time until you reach a point when at least most of your imperil doesnt get resisted. Even when of course those stupid dragons are a different story. And sup prof? Well, the only thing it would only do is reduce your mana usage, and allready with IA3 and 122.9 interference i am with 541.925 sup prof allready down to an upkeep of 1.42 MP/round. -Wow, didnt even notice that i got allready below 1.43. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) - So tbh i dont really see the point in buying sup nor dep perks as melee.

I agree, mostly ... except, if you already have all of the other useful perks, and you don't sell haths becuz you're already drowning in credits, then you could get them; it certainly doesn't hurt to have them (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And what is the reasonable price for absorption? Who buys absorption? Never saw anyone buying it.

You mean the scrolls? Tbh i have no idea who buys them, or why even someone would want that. I did try them out for a while and they are just useless. I mean you get 4 credits for them from the item shop and you need to use several of them to save even a single mana draught, and those you could sell for 2 credits. So spend around 6 or 7 times four credits so save two credits, is no good deal. And they also dont even save you from critical hits iirc, also sometimes you wait quite a while until they are actually triggered and they are single use. Completly useless and no, i dont have remember who were speaking of absorb as something melee should use so they dont need magical mitigation. I wont tell his name, but if you are reading this, i really dont think you are a smart person. I really dont. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

And here I disagree ... they are almost useless, when you have spirit shield maxed. But below lvl.200 i found then useful.
And yes, they only block ONE magic attack (with 90% probability) ... but they are cheap (for meager 20k you can get 1000 scrolls), and don't have expiration (meaning, the effect only expires if it has blocked one attack; otherwise it goes on indefinitely).
I wouldn't use them on usual runs, those that you know are easy (low risk of troubles). But for tough runs, I'm glad to put it on right at the start, then renew when it has been used (i.e., it has blocked a magic attack).
This doesn't just saves on mana, but also on spirit points (the attack would have been probably blocked by SS otherwise) and a bit on HP too (a completely blocked attack is better then a mitigated one).

IMHO, obviously (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

We should separate debuff's resist (proficiency) and evade (magic hit chance).
And we are talking about melee without Aether Shard (increases magic hit chance) usage.
-snipped the rest-

No need to conduct experimentations to have accurate numbers regarding Evil Enchantress. I know that usually I'm the one who says that practice is what needs to be done, but this time simple maths with basic, absolute game rules are way enough.

Assuming your base prof is equal to your level:
-no Evil Enchantress => counter-resist = 0%
-with Evil Enchantress => counter-resist = 5%

Assuming your base prof is equal to 110% of your level (which seems to be roughly my own case, and I do have quite a high depr prof thanks to high Assimilator training):
-no Evil Enchantress => counter-resist = 5%
-with Evil Enchnatress => counter-resist ~= 10.5%

The very maximum is 120% of your level, which gives 10%/16% respectively.

All this to say that the effect of Evil Enchantress is rather consistent no matter what (between 5 and 6% counter-resist), as long as you do have at least a depr prof equal to your level. Yes, the effect is probably not as awesome as Aether Shards, but it's still better than nothing at all and the effect can still somewhat be felt during battle.

There you go your real data... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Conclusion => The feeling is perfectly legit

You should have studied your subject properly, before going into that random data collection / numbers vomitting.

For melee, Token II >> Crys II & III >> DD2 >> Supportive Magic Proficiency & Deprecating Magic Proficiency?

Will supportive perk have a noticeable effect?

And what is the reasonable price for absorption? Who buys absorption? Never saw anyone buying it.

As the prof mechanics dictate, the support perk mostly increases the duration of your buffs and the power of Cure.
It's really not a priority. Most likely a little doodad to get when everything else is unlocked.

As for Absorption... Even as a scroll given for free, it's still a waste of time to stop for the sake of activating it.

And yes, they only block ONE magic attack (with 90% probability) ...

Absorb blocks more than one spell. It's just very rare (current my record - 10 times blocked 2+ attacks in GrindFest).

Yes, the effect is probably not as awesome as Aether Shards, but it's still better than nothing at all and the effect can still somewhat be felt during battle.

See, much better presentation to the player. Instead of "much better, buy it".

Provide theoretical calculation for different cases, provide real game data and let the player decide to buy/use something.

Ah, further info?
With 500 Wis, one reaches 100% Magic Accuracy. At that point, using Aether Shards boosts one to 150% Magic Accuracy, effectively reducing the probability of a monster evading Imperil by 50%. Which is certainly way greater than the effect of Evil Enchantress.

That is, the effect of Aether Shards is even greater if one has more than 100% Magic Accuracy.

At least I can only recommend one to do all of these to improve his hit-rate of Imperil:
-invest points in WIS
-get Evil Enchantress
-invest in the Assimilator training, if your base proficiency is below your level
-use Aether Shards
-use Imperil in absolutely every round, not once in a while

Bonus:
I'm gathering a full set of Arcanist shade to give a try at Imperil melee with it. Because the WIS PABs of Arcanist could be very interesting to raise the Magic Accuracy.

This post has been edited by decondelite: Apr 2 2019, 22:18

Bonus:
I'm gathering a full set of Arcanist shade to give a try at Imperil melee with it. Because the WIS PABs of Arcanist could be very interesting to raise the Magic Accuracy.

How many turns are you expecting to save with that? Judging from my imperil counts for DWD, I would estimate a gain of maybe 100 turns at most... in raw imperil count, anyway. In pfest/IW100s, it might have some other slight knock-on effects from making the first turns of a round more consistent.

I think it's a good enough idea to make it interesting, though. It might be cheap-ish to pick up decent agile/savage arcanist pieces. I'll be interested in seeing how many pieces are needed to see much benefit, too - could be that it might be worth running one good arcanist piece alongside shadowdancer pieces.

Will supportive perk have a noticeable effect?

the real boner is cast time reduction on full-cure, leaving you less vulnerable to followup attacks. the effect isn't huge but i would say it's worth it