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would it be possible to use 1h wind mage with no imperil if i have 1.0 prof factor or is that strictly for dark/holy/staff users?

currently run 4/1 radient/elemental and thinking about swapping to 3/2 or 2/3 for no imperil. just thinking i might be able to kill quicker by replacing the 5-10 turns i spend casting imperil to casting t1-t2 spells.

just getting annoyed how so many monsters are resisting imperil consecutive times in a row with 550 deprecating prof.
if i swap my radiant robe i could go to around 910-940 elemental prof which would give me approximately .9-.95 prof factor.

I think you lose more turns without imperil. At least from what little I tried of no imperil. But I needed 3 cottons to hit 1+ prof factor.

Edit: Yeah, you definitely need more turns without imperil - it has 50% magic mitigation reduction that you can't make up for with prof factor, so unless you can kill all enemies within 4-5 turns with imperil (which is roughly 8-10 turns without imperil) non-imperil will be worse in terms of turns. 1h mage will never be able to clear that quickly (even without taking into account the loss in EDB).

This post has been edited by magiclamp: Mar 29 2019, 05:45

would it be possible to use 1h wind mage with no imperil if i have 1.0 prof factor or is that strictly for dark/holy/staff users?

currently run 4/1 radient/elemental and thinking about swapping to 3/2 or 2/3 for no imperil. just thinking i might be able to kill quicker by replacing the 5-10 turns i spend casting imperil to casting t1-t2 spells.

just getting annoyed how so many monsters are resisting imperil consecutive times in a row with 550 deprecating prof.
if i swap my radiant robe i could go to around 910-940 elemental prof which would give me approximately .9-.95 prof factor.

Highlithing your actual, real issue here. You're not playing Imperil the proper, efficient way.
Accept the fact that no matter what and unless you're lucky, there will be monsters resisting Imperil. Even as a staff mage and a shitload of depr prof+counter-resist it's quite frequent to have monsters resisting Imperil.

To be efficient, a mage's goal (staff or 1H, doesn't matter), is to thin out the monster's ranks, and quickly, not to have absolutely everything imperiled+killed within a single blast. If your gameplay is oriented toward that good objective and it results in you killing everything during that blast, then you've been lucky. But if you're trying to get all monsters Imperil'ed no matter what, then you're doing it wrong.

My personal advice is the following:
1) Cast Imperil on the 3 first monsters, then the 3 last, then whatever gap of 2+ there is in the middle. Recast imperil only if there's a pack of 3 monsters remaining unaffected after that.
2) 1.0 elemental prof factor. The 0.68 prof factor is utter bullshit that focuses on the optimization of the elemental resistance against imperiled monsters, but discards completely the benefits of counter-resist and and the case when monsters aren't imperiled. Having 1.0 is even more important as 1H mage than as staff mage, since you'll have more monsters that fail to get Imperiled and you have less counter-resist. Really, you'll understand what brute force against non-imperiled monsters is once you've reached 1.0 prof factor.

I may not be 1H mage, but at least I do can tell you that brute forcing non-imperiled monsters with 1.0 prof factor feels very... brutal and satisfactory. And you have a maximal counter-resist that way aswell. You will feel the effect of -50% elemental mitigation instead of -34% and the effect of higher counter-resist.

This post has been edited by decondelite: Mar 29 2019, 09:40

I may not be 1H mage, but at least I do can tell you that brute forcing non-imperiled monsters with 1.0 prof factor feels very... brutal and satisfactory. And you have a maximal counter-resist that way aswell. You will feel the effect of -50% elemental mitigation instead of -34% and the effect of higher counter-resist.

You are very certain about all this, so it seems. But you haven't played 1h mage, have you? I have. In my experience, anywhere between 0.5 and 0.8 prof factor works optimal. You just don't have enough firepower to kill even imperiled monsters otherwise. But please, try it out and proof me wrong.

2) 1.0 elemental prof factor. The 0.68 prof factor is utter bullshit that focuses on the optimization of the elemental resistance against imperiled monsters, but discards completely the benefits of counter-resist and and the case when monsters aren't imperiled. Having 1.0 is even more important as 1H mage than as staff mage, since you'll have more monsters that fail to get Imperiled and you have less counter-resist. Really, you'll understand what brute force against non-imperiled monsters is once you've reached 1.0 prof factor.

Imperil play with 1.0 prof factor? Maybe if your set isn't very strong. But my dark imperil @0.8 prof factor was working fine, and now that I have 1.0 prof factor every imperil just slows me down. I think if you have elemental radiant set, it would be the same: imperil will start to slow you down. So if 1.0 imperil play isn't working for 'near perfect' sets, then it means it may be useful for not-yet-perfect sets. But then it depends on which consessions you did. If you lack firepower, 0.68 4+1 style may be better then 1.0 3+2 style, because you lack the power to finish off the non-imperiled dudes fast enough. Again, you seem very certain about your statement, but I do question if it is valid for every elemental mage?

This post has been edited by DJNoni: Mar 29 2019, 09:49

I have never said that sacrificing raw firepower to reach 1.0 was an option... But it may be one.

With 0.5-0.8 prof factor, you may kill Imperiled monsters quicker, that much is undoubtedly true. But if in the end it takes you years to kill non-imperiled monsters, then it's half pointless. You see, there are little guys out there (more and more of them, to top it off) that have 75% elemental mitigation, and there's a huge difference between bringing them down to 41% and bringing them down to 25%. I fear that 15%, 20% or even 50% increase in elemental damage can't possibly make up for that difference, since they will basically be tanking more than half better if you stick to 0.68 prof factor instead of 1.0.

In the end, yes it's a matter of choice. But between chosing to kill imperiled monsters faster and clearing the entire round faster, my own choice is done.

I have never said that sacrificing raw firepower to reach 1.0 was an option... But it may be one.

With 0.5-0.8 prof factor, you may kill Imperiled monsters quicker, that much is undoubtedly true. But if in the end it takes you years to kill non-imperiled monsters, then it's half pointless. You see, there are little guys out there (more and more of them, to top it off) that have 75% elemental mitigation, and there's a huge difference between bringing them down to 41% and bringing them down to 25%. I fear that 15%, 20% or even 50% increase in elemental damage can't possibly make up for that difference, since they will basically be tanking more than half better if you stick to 0.68 prof factor instead of 1.0.

In the end, yes it's a matter of choice. But between chosing to kill imperiled monsters faster and clearing the entire round faster, my own choice is done.

it is also a game of chance. If the non-imperiled monster doesn't have strong mitigation against your element, you will not be slower. But choose as you like, of course.

2) 1.0 elemental prof factor. The 0.68 prof factor is utter bullshit that focuses on the optimization of the elemental resistance against imperiled monsters, but discards completely the benefits of counter-resist and and the case when monsters aren't imperiled.

Have you done a PFDfest with your non-imp set. Hope you don't cry.

Undoubtedly, Counter-resist is a very great advantage of high profs. But that doesn't compensate the low survivability and low speed, and the costs of consumables.

So if 1.0 imperil play isn't working for 'near perfect' sets, then it means it may be useful for not-yet-perfect sets. But then it depends on which consessions you did. If you lack firepower, 0.68 4+1 style may be better then 1.0 3+2 style, because you lack the power to finish off the non-imperiled dudes fast enough.

May be? No never. Even if he has DD9. An Lv500 ice mage with nearly peerless radiants and ppl DD9(or just DD5? I don't know but he's rich yeah he's an auctioneer.) says he needs around 8000 turns to finish a PFDfest.

between chosing to kill imperiled monsters faster and clearing the entire round faster, my own choice is done.

Not really. It's quite easy to recast imperils. In the end, imp elementals are still fasters, more comfortable.
Well at least for dark imp, it's not necessary to recast imps. For elementals, yea kind of a must.

I don't see any possibility 3+2 can work better than 4+1 in PFGF/IW for imp elemental.
So I will just stick to 4+1.

This post has been edited by qr12345: Mar 29 2019, 10:55

I don't see any possibility 3+2 can works better than 4+1 in PF/IW for imp elemental.
So I will just stick to 4+1.

For staff mage, yes 4+1 is the way to go. For 1h, it's debatable since the weapon doesn't have any prof. I'll simulate tonight to check if at the very least 0.8 prof can be reached with a single prof part, and what one. Because yes 0.8 does seem reasonable enough regarding non imperiled monsters, while 0.68 is definitely too low. Don't forget that this famous 0.68 was determined quite some time ago, when there weren't that many PL2250 monsters.

I hope pants are enough, because it'd suck not to have the robe as main radiant phase.

what do you guys think about Savage / Agile for light armour? can the attack speed be equal to the attack damage from Savage?

For clearing speed in real time, savage is better.

what do you guys think about Savage / Agile for light armour? can the attack speed be equal to the attack damage from Savage?

attack speed is for survival, crit damage for faster play, isn't savage gives extra crit damage rather than adb?

Depends on what you want to achieve. For my part, I consider that Savage Shade is illogic, as if you want attack power you use power armor. Shade is more oriented toward agility, attack speed and evade, so it'd be more logic to go for Agile.
It doesn't mean that Savage Shade is wrong.

attack speed is for survival, crit damage for faster play, isn't savage gives extra crit damage rather than adb?

yes, for light armor, it's crit damage

one or two pieces of agile might be nice but full savage should be viable/preferable, afaik, even for pfest with the right weapon setup and forging

Depends on what you want to achieve. For my part, I consider that Savage Shade is illogic, as if you want attack power you use power armor. Shade is more oriented toward agility, attack speed and evade, so it'd be more logic to go for Agile.
It doesn't mean that Savage Shade is wrong.

Could you weigh up the differences between shade and power in terms of survivability (for non-1h players)? I don't think power armor is pfest viable for styles that don't have block (and shield mitigation, but I guess that's comparable to offhand parry). 2H should suffer the most but I've had my mind blown before about that style (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by lestion: Mar 29 2019, 19:03

yes, for light armor, it's crit damage

one or two pieces of agile might be nice but full savage should be viable/preferable, afaik, even for pfest with the right weapon setup and forging

Hmm, but lololol still can't clear pfest despite his full savage shade right? I think it's more suited for fast dwd, and agile for pfest might be worth to try.

Hmm, but lololol still can't clear pfest despite his full savage shade right? I think it's more suited for fast dwd, and agile for pfest might be worth to try.

last time I tried with my agile set I was curing more than with the savage one (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
I'll try it properly later

Hmm, but lololol still can't clear pfest despite his full savage shade right?

where do you get such infos? its exactly that, why Iam going for light

Free Average Weapon of Slaughter with IW10 could be usefull for starters?

Could you weigh up the differences between shade and power in terms of survivability (for non-1h players)? I don't think power armor is pfest viable for styles that don't have block (and shield mitigation, but I guess that's comparable to offhand parry). 2H should suffer the most but I've had my mind blown before about that style (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I'd like to, but I can't. I don't have the funds to try all the things I want to build up my knowledge.
As far as my observation goes for now, I think that Power 2H should be decently playable for IW100 and even reach better clear times than 1H, but I'm very, very uncertain when it comes to PFFEST. The main matter comes from these two questions:
1) Can a fully forged Power of Protection+Warding set withstand heavy damage income enough?
2) Can a 2H weapon kill monsters fast enough before they start unleashing spirit attacks?

Accurate answers, actual tests will have to wait for the day I have enough shards to attempt a OP5B4 on my weapon.

where do you get such infos? its exactly that, why Iam going for light

Well he posted about it a while ago when I asked if that's feasible.

This post has been edited by fuadhika: Mar 29 2019, 20:24

Hmm, but lololol still can't clear pfest despite his full savage shade right? I think it's more suited for fast dwd, and agile for pfest might be worth to try.

We currently think 90-95% parry might be the tipping point that makes it possible

where do you get such infos? its exactly that, why Iam going for light

See this page for our stats on IWBTH fest. As you can see... we're at 20k+ turns, and we still have to pay some attention to survival towards the end. IIRC, lolo had pfest get brutal around the 500-600ish mark.

It's not actually the armor's fault that the other styles aren't comparable with 1H's survivability - it's just that, block is essentially comparable to evade while also having access to higher mitigation from power armor.

That does bring up the balancing question of whether it'd be okay to equalize the mitigations between the two, though. Power armor would still be preferable for 1H because of the burden and higher attack damage and not wanting evade.

I'd like to, but I can't. I don't have the funds to try all the things I want to build up my knowledge.
As far as my observation goes for now, I think that Power 2H should be decently playable for IW100 and even reach better clear times than 1H, but I'm very, very uncertain when it comes to PFFEST. The main matter comes from these two questions:
1) Can a fully forged Power of Protection+Warding set withstand heavy damage income enough?
2) Can a 2H weapon kill monsters fast enough before they start unleashing spirit attacks?

Accurate answers, actual tests will have to wait for the day I have enough shards to attempt a OP5B4 on my weapon.

I agree that it should definitely be IW100 viable, and also that PFest is likely very uncertain. I do not think pure mitigation without avoidance layers is going to be enough. I do think it can clear fast enough to avoid spirit attacks generally though. I think it would need to be playing mace, and possibly it might even need to use weaken.

This post has been edited by lestion: Mar 29 2019, 20:44