[X] My Assistant

Plus Waki's are more rare than rapiers no?

no, katana and waki isn't classified as rare anymore after... I forgot when was it, 0.83 0.84?

1H just can't compete with mage, period.

Even if someone got a full peerless power slaughter set + peerless rapier+ peerless sde shield at lv300, 1H can't clear dwd as fast as mage. In order for 1H to have as less turns as mage, it has to one shot every custom monster and kill SGs in five turns.


No that's just not possible.

Not gonna comment on other melee styles because I don't know anything about that, but at least that's the case for 1H. Another huge issue is that while mage and monster health scales quadratically, melee adb scales linearly.

Unless they get some ridiculous buff, they just can't compete with AoE.

you always hit 3 (last) or 4 (second last) if you start from the bottom (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) In a fest you have to one-shot all the five monsters or you'll be in trouble, use imperil for that

So if I start from the top it would always hit 5 enemies? At least that's the case for me. And even if I start from the bottom it's sometimes still hit 5 enemies. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
What's the max number of enemies will be affected if I max better and faster imperil?

-snip-

The advantage for 1H is that it's definitely the easiest and safest style to play.
It has least operation and attention required which can allow you doing some multitasking when playing, like watching an anime or whatever.

On the other hand mage is fast but dangerous, more concentration required.
Uncle can clear GF and daily arenas without SoL which is totally impossible for mage.
I am sparking at least 20~30 times for a single PFGF and I can be easily killed with one misclick.

But most player take time more important and so do I.

Yea, me too lol.

I'm fine with mage outperforming melee in PFGF by a margin in time, since it requires more concentration and well, mages need to pay fortune to even be able to clear it. And limited players play it anyways.

My main concern is arena, because that's what everyone plays, and let's face it, mage don't need much concentration playing arenas, at least SG arenas, and SG arenas matter the most since those three alone can take up 50% of clear times.

Something like holy non-imperil I'd say even requires less effort since it doesn't even have to move the mouse around as much as melee, but imperil mages are clearing arenas pretty easily, and 2-3 times faster than melee. This should be fixed, obviously. It can still have faster clear time, but not as drastically as that.

Uncle can clear GF and daily arenas without SoL which is totally impossible for mage.

A mage cant even clear his daily arenas without triggering SoL? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

A mage cant even clear his daily arenas without triggering SoL? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

are you surprised that the glass cannon is ... glass?

A mage cant even clear his daily arenas without triggering SoL? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

When I was using moderate forge plain set, I couldn't.
Now with heavy forge full charged build, I can.

This post has been edited by qr12345: Mar 14 2019, 15:01

Haven't lololo16 and lestion dug deep enough to DW style? And they both can't complete PFFest, I don't know about you but to me that's saying something.

Drksrpnt and lololo both know it much better than me. I just have a highly forged club (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I will acknwoledge only someone who actually tried, played it to confirm that it sucks. Everyone else can pretty much GTFO, no offense intended.

I have already proven once how wrong the general assumption can be with my 1H playstyle. It shows pretty much how misleading and fucked up all the maths/theory can be. I wouldn't be surprised that 2H is actually way better than how everyone assumes it to be, if you do use a proper setup and playstyle. Given it's played seriously by someone who actually wants to dig out its potential.

As roughly as you're putting this, I agree - melee styles are much better than the forums seem to believe (sickentide has proven that for 2H, and lololo's results speak well for DW) - but there's still, as mentioned, a couple undeniable hurdles. Speaking for DW, the combination of no piercing mitigation and the mostly single target oriented damage makes survival pretty rough (on fest + sometimes late pf IW - arenas are no problem). Trying to get in an early frenzied blows relying on it to one-shot four or five monsters in a round is pretty awkward, especially given that you may need a couple turns to set that up with imperils & spirit stance.

Obviously, having not played mage, I can't compare the survival issues. I don't think it's a great stretch of the imagination to assume that the AoE capabilities help mitigate that somewhat, though.

As already stated, I'm more than okay with mage having a clear advantage in terms of clear speed & damage. That's necessary for the playstyle to work at all, with cloth armor. Maybe not close to double as fast, though. Clear speed is fairly arbitrary to game balance (outside of extreme speed as a survival strategy) so it's not like it'd be greatly harmful for melees to get turn counts equivalent to maybe 10-20% more than mages.

Might be talking out my ass, though. YMMV

This post has been edited by lestion: Mar 14 2019, 15:54

i consider 2H (and other melee styles, but i'm not as familiar with them) a viable alternative to mage, because, while slower, they require less attention and resources to clear the same challenges. after forging the defensive stats on my power set to 25 i can now comfortably clear PF IWs with longsword/power without the need for scrolls or elixirs. estoc/shade is even safer, but that's also forged more. so i'm fine with mage style's faster clear times coming at a cost in both risk and upkeep

unlock its true potential

i for one am currently saving up for more slaughter bindings and Manehattan Project, and i'm sitting on 4 different maces awaiting IWing to determine the optimal mace for every situation

What true potential.
Petal Kiss has full savage slaughter set and peerless demonic rapier, peerless katana and wakizashi. I don't think he would even waste time trying these styles.

Last time he tried dwd as 1h and niten.
Maybe 3300 t for 1h, and 4500~4800 t for niten I cannot recall the exact number though. That's not PFDfest, but that's the obvious potential for melees.

^This.

That's as good as a melee can wish to get, and my crap mage set runs at 2.5k turns already. Not to mention 1.5k turns by 4 radiant holy non-imperil mages.
When you consider both endgame 1H and mage, the only downside mage'd have is some attention required on later rounds of pffest and that's it. As for bigger upkeep, mage can clear two~three pffest while melee's clearing one timewise, and you'd come out profitable even if you have to chug down two energy drinks for a second pffest as mage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Arena def needs a fix, and I personally think it'd be awesome if we get some more endgame contents where each playstyle has advantage over others in each of them =)

This post has been edited by Saioux: Mar 14 2019, 17:10

i can now comfortably clear PF IWs with longsword/power without the need for scrolls or elixirs.

I've always thought that heavy armor should always used with shield, now that I know this I'm interested to build a traditional battle gear (heavy+mace), too bad there are no spears and polearms here.

snip

got it, thanks uncle!








Just wondering, is there a reason for wanting ethereal katana of balance other than collection?
and is balance work better than slaughter on any occasion?

Just wondering, is there a reason for wanting ethereal katana of balance other than collection?
and is balance work better than slaughter on any occasion?

No.

got it, thanks uncle!
Just wondering, is there a reason for wanting ethereal katana of balance other than collection?
and is balance work better than slaughter on any occasion?

dual wield purposes only & that's for damage rather than survival

wrong thread (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/lurk.gif)

This post has been edited by Nayas: Mar 14 2019, 22:36

I love the frequency of dry.gif in legendary equip thread (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

And your question is? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Decondelite still made a good point though that most speed comparisons between melee and mage are not quite fair; the mage is usually at a higher point of upgrades and daemon duality. The speed increase looks more than double, but in reality mage might only be 1.5 times faster. Top class holy mage might still be 2 times faster. I wanted to point it out for a while but never did, as I'm still too weak to attempt a proper comparison.

If a higher difficulty were introduced that mage cannot complete in grindfest that would probably even the playing field.

Decondelite still made a good point though that most speed comparisons between melee and mage are not quite fair; the mage is usually at a higher point of upgrades and daemon duality. The speed increase looks more than double, but in reality mage might only be 1.5 times faster. Top class holy mage might still be 2 times faster. I wanted to point it out for a while but never did, as I'm still too weak to attempt a proper comparison.

If a higher difficulty were introduced that mage cannot complete in grindfest that would probably even the playing field.

That would even the playing field??? That'd just exclude everyone but highly forged 1H players, I think (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)