[X] My Assistant

It blasts me how everyone asks for a melee buff and says that mage is oP, while no one actually forges a melee set tp the brim to unlock its true potential.
Compare things that can be compared, would you?

This post has been edited by decondelite: Mar 14 2019, 09:04

It blasts me how everyone asks for a melee buff and says that mage is oP, while no one actually forges a melee set tp the brim to unlock its true potential.
Compare things that can be compared, would you?

I understand what you're saying, but with or without unlocking it's 'true potential', you can easily calculate and compare the two.

Seriously, someone give me a fully forged melee set that is forged A) to "the brim" and B ) "unlock its true potential" and compare it's speed in clearing some arenas. Actually, a more fun experiment is: flat out double the damage potential of all melee weapons and see how close it compares to mage clear speed. I understand clear speed is not the only metric usefulness of a class can be measured by, but it's by far a very clear and well understood metric for most users here.

Not that any of this matters to me, I barely play the game anymore (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by aleden: Mar 14 2019, 09:11

It blasts me how everyone asks for a melee buff and says that mage is oP, while no one actually forges a melee set tp the brim to unlock its true potential.
Compare things that can be compared, would you?

If you buy all the bindings, Slaughterx100@100kx7=70m, while mages have to spend roughly the same if not less, if they have a couple of radiant pieces (phazons). The cost of max upgrading is just so much that it's not worth it when mage is just... well, better.

I'm estimating here, obviously.

Also the fact that shade is missing piercing mitigation hurts it a lot, so it's not something that can be waved off as just not forging enough. I don't know enough about 1H to make any assumptions on that, but anything+shade is clearly in a bad spot right now.

Just finished iwfest.

Club of slaughter + rapier of the nimble
21782 turns; 02:15:06
Spark of life: 3; cure: 71; Full cure 9; Health gem 28

Was it a breezy or a toughie?

-snip-

Calculate? What for? You can calculate and spout all the numbers you want all day, it will neither prove nor validate anything as long as you don't actually try and experiment.
I will acknwoledge only someone who actually tried, played it to confirm that it sucks. Everyone else can pretty much GTFO, no offense intended.

I have already proven once how wrong the general assumption can be with my 1H playstyle. It shows pretty much how misleading and fucked up all the maths/theory can be. I wouldn't be surprised that 2H is actually way better than how everyone assumes it to be, if you do use a proper setup and playstyle. Given it's played seriously by someone who actually wants to dig out its potential.

• 1H drops 3x more often than staffs
• top level wakizashi or non-slaughter can occasionally fetch decent prices
• prefixes and suffixes are not all equally rare
• on high level 1H arguably parry is extraneous, crit and PA matter more

In particular the slaughter suffix is fairly common on 1H weapons but is very rare on power armor. That's the main reason slaughter armor of comparable quality costs more.

Calculate? What for? You can calculate and spout all the numbers you want all day, it will neither prove nor validate anything as long as you don't actually try and experiment.
I will acknwoledge only someone who actually tried, played it to confirm that it sucks. Everyone else can pretty much GTFO, no offense intended.

I have already proven once how wrong the general assumption can be with my 1H playstyle. It shows pretty much how misleading and fucked up all the maths/theory can be. I wouldn't be surprised that 2H is actually way better than how everyone assumes it to be, if you do use a proper setup and playstyle. Given it's played seriously by someone who actually wants to dig out its potential.

Haven't lololo16 and lestion dug deep enough to DW style? And they both can't complete PFFest, I don't know about you but to me that's saying something.

This post has been edited by fuadhika: Mar 14 2019, 09:56

you can easily calculate and compare the two

Yeeep. Even if you could one shot mobs with melee (which, I don't think even full peerless full upgrade can do?)
Still you would be slower than a mid/high upgrade mage.

Your parries should one shot mobs for it to be as fast as mage.
Granted, that defeats the purpose of 1H/heavy. Because it would then be better than mage (similar clear speeds, but much safer)

Was it a breezy or a toughie?

last 200 rounds were slow, not really dangerous though. Also, I played the last 100 rounds with 16 burden but didn't feel it at all. A proper use of frenzied blows and high parry are the key

last 200 rounds were slow, not really dangerous though. Also, I played the last 100 rounds with 16 burden but didn't feel it at all. A proper use of frenzied blows and high parry are the key

Shard ran out huh. Well at least now I know that IWFest is possible. Thank you for the info. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Oh about frenzied blows, are you always using it fully spread (hit 5 enemies) or use it to hit less enemy (3-4 at top/bottom)? Sometimes when I select the very top/bottom enemy sometimes I hit 3, sometimes 4, and sometimes even fully spread 5, what kind of trick is needed to control this? Or is it just that when it hit less than 5 enemies the ones that don't get hit just simply evade/parry? This has been bugging me for quite a while because on the action log there's never enemy evade/parry frenzied blows.

you always hit 3 (last) or 4 (second last) if you start from the bottom (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) In a fest you have to one-shot all the five monsters or you'll be in trouble, use imperil for that

Plus Waki's are more rare than rapiers no?

no, katana and waki isn't classified as rare anymore after... I forgot when was it, 0.83 0.84?

1H just can't compete with mage, period.

Even if someone got a full peerless power slaughter set + peerless rapier+ peerless sde shield at lv300, 1H can't clear dwd as fast as mage. In order for 1H to have as less turns as mage, it has to one shot every custom monster and kill SGs in five turns.


No that's just not possible.

Not gonna comment on other melee styles because I don't know anything about that, but at least that's the case for 1H. Another huge issue is that while mage and monster health scales quadratically, melee adb scales linearly.

Unless they get some ridiculous buff, they just can't compete with AoE.

you always hit 3 (last) or 4 (second last) if you start from the bottom (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) In a fest you have to one-shot all the five monsters or you'll be in trouble, use imperil for that

So if I start from the top it would always hit 5 enemies? At least that's the case for me. And even if I start from the bottom it's sometimes still hit 5 enemies. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
What's the max number of enemies will be affected if I max better and faster imperil?

-snip-

The advantage for 1H is that it's definitely the easiest and safest style to play.
It has least operation and attention required which can allow you doing some multitasking when playing, like watching an anime or whatever.

On the other hand mage is fast but dangerous, more concentration required.
Uncle can clear GF and daily arenas without SoL which is totally impossible for mage.
I am sparking at least 20~30 times for a single PFGF and I can be easily killed with one misclick.

But most player take time more important and so do I.

Yea, me too lol.

I'm fine with mage outperforming melee in PFGF by a margin in time, since it requires more concentration and well, mages need to pay fortune to even be able to clear it. And limited players play it anyways.

My main concern is arena, because that's what everyone plays, and let's face it, mage don't need much concentration playing arenas, at least SG arenas, and SG arenas matter the most since those three alone can take up 50% of clear times.

Something like holy non-imperil I'd say even requires less effort since it doesn't even have to move the mouse around as much as melee, but imperil mages are clearing arenas pretty easily, and 2-3 times faster than melee. This should be fixed, obviously. It can still have faster clear time, but not as drastically as that.

Uncle can clear GF and daily arenas without SoL which is totally impossible for mage.

A mage cant even clear his daily arenas without triggering SoL? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

A mage cant even clear his daily arenas without triggering SoL? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

are you surprised that the glass cannon is ... glass?

A mage cant even clear his daily arenas without triggering SoL? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

When I was using moderate forge plain set, I couldn't.
Now with heavy forge full charged build, I can.

This post has been edited by qr12345: Mar 14 2019, 15:01

Haven't lololo16 and lestion dug deep enough to DW style? And they both can't complete PFFest, I don't know about you but to me that's saying something.

Drksrpnt and lololo both know it much better than me. I just have a highly forged club (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I will acknwoledge only someone who actually tried, played it to confirm that it sucks. Everyone else can pretty much GTFO, no offense intended.

I have already proven once how wrong the general assumption can be with my 1H playstyle. It shows pretty much how misleading and fucked up all the maths/theory can be. I wouldn't be surprised that 2H is actually way better than how everyone assumes it to be, if you do use a proper setup and playstyle. Given it's played seriously by someone who actually wants to dig out its potential.

As roughly as you're putting this, I agree - melee styles are much better than the forums seem to believe (sickentide has proven that for 2H, and lololo's results speak well for DW) - but there's still, as mentioned, a couple undeniable hurdles. Speaking for DW, the combination of no piercing mitigation and the mostly single target oriented damage makes survival pretty rough (on fest + sometimes late pf IW - arenas are no problem). Trying to get in an early frenzied blows relying on it to one-shot four or five monsters in a round is pretty awkward, especially given that you may need a couple turns to set that up with imperils & spirit stance.

Obviously, having not played mage, I can't compare the survival issues. I don't think it's a great stretch of the imagination to assume that the AoE capabilities help mitigate that somewhat, though.

As already stated, I'm more than okay with mage having a clear advantage in terms of clear speed & damage. That's necessary for the playstyle to work at all, with cloth armor. Maybe not close to double as fast, though. Clear speed is fairly arbitrary to game balance (outside of extreme speed as a survival strategy) so it's not like it'd be greatly harmful for melees to get turn counts equivalent to maybe 10-20% more than mages.

Might be talking out my ass, though. YMMV

This post has been edited by lestion: Mar 14 2019, 15:54