[X] My Assistant

In my experience, mag shadowdancer is going to be worse than passable leg fleet/negation for most situations. You might lose up to 1k turns on DWD if your weapons are really good, but survivability is going to be more important for general purpose play anyway. You should be able to find some pretty high adb leg fleet fairly cheap and that'll make up a bit of the difference of not having the crit. Savage fleet/negation even better (but probably wouldn't spend more than 1mil on a piece).

1h with light armor? Someone might be able to clarify depending on the order this happens in, but to my understanding: that would severely hamper your damage. Can't counter-attack if you evade, and the much much lower burden will allow you to have much higher attack speed, which will also work against you...

What difficulty are you on right now, btw? I went into pf around 350, but I really really noticed a lot of slowdown after 400. That's part of why I would recommend not committing too hard to the more awkward playstyles... things are a lot less fun when they're a ton slower and taking more effort to stay alive (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Damn, really don't feel like spending around 1m on temporary armors (planning to soulfuse all my leg ele shadow by the time I reach 400). But I guess leg fleet would be cheap enough to be temporary armor for my level now, thanks for the advice.
Ah yeah I forgot about 1H counter, so I guess light 1H would be exclusive for survival? With way much slower play than normal 1H.
I am breezing through arenas on PF right now, been doing this since around later 200 or early 300 iirc. But on IW last time I play I did it on IWBTH, not tried PF yet though so not sure whether able to do it or not.

DW is bad for PFFest. Full stop. Even with agile shadowdancer, you just get too much damage taken so you have to cure all the time. Unless you do some weird shit with FRD or something, it's just not worth it.

What about IWFest? It's not like the drops greatly different from PFFest right?

This post has been edited by fuadhika: Mar 14 2019, 00:47

What about IWFest? It's not like the drops greatly different from PFFest right?

Well, i am no expert for DW, but i am quite sure if you want to do some Fest, DW is imo not the best choice.

Well, i am no expert for DW, but i am quite sure if you want to do some Fest, DW is imo not the best choice.

So it's either 1H or mage only? Damn, other style should get an update then. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

So it's either 1H or mage only? Damn, other style should get an update then. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

Well, actually i would say all melee styles could need a little more love from 10bo. But you dont need to do Fest. Iirc you just play until 80 stamina right? So there is still quite some improvement to do. I mean DW can be faster doing the arenas, so i think you should just try it out.

Well, actually i would say all melee styles could need a little more love from 10bo. But you dont need to do Fest. Iirc you just play until 80 stamina right? So there is still quite some improvement to do. I mean DW can be faster doing the arenas, so i think you should just try it out.

We could certainly all do with a damage buff to get even remotely close to mage... it'd honestly benefit the market greatly to equalize prices a bit, but I think mages need to be ahead a little for all the time they're at the mercy of such ridiculous requirements in terms of matching prefixes/suffixes. The staff market is kinda silly compared to every other piece of equipment, even (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

DW's damage is probably a little better than 1H in ideal gear, and definitely a ton better against low target fights, but I'm not really sure what could be changed about it (and 2H) to bring up the survivability in a way that doesn't accidentally make power armor obsolete or something

What about IWFest? It's not like the drops greatly different from PFFest right?

I did IFest earlier today. My stats are availabile in the DWD thread. It started getting tough in the 700s and I died around 920. The additional capabilities of PFUDOR monsters probably would've slaughtered me before getting to 600, maybe even 500.

Edit: I want to note that, by my understanding, PFest is by no means easy for the other styles either, the investment required is through the roof. If you aren't selling gold stars, running a (powerful) H@H client, or even completing bounties, it's likely to take a very, very long time to be capable of doing fests anyway. I think Uncle Stu's defensive power setup is probably the most cost-efficient way to do so

This post has been edited by lestion: Mar 14 2019, 02:33

The only time I tried pffest (yesterday) with DW I reached round 500 without sparking (cured like 10 times) and took me 70 minutes. Maybe I'll try iwfest later...

If you aren't selling gold stars, running a (powerful) H@H client, or even completing bounties, it's likely to take a very, very long time to be capable of doing fests anyway.

it doesn't take all that much if you're willing to use a mace with a shade set, which is what i used for my first PFfest clear

but I think mages need to be ahead a little for all the time they're at the mercy of such ridiculous requirements in terms of matching prefixes/suffixes.

I dont have a problem with mage been the best. But the difference to all other styles is imo just a bad joke. a whole PFest in under an hour and such. I just dont have any words for that.

I think Uncle Stu's defensive power setup is probably the most cost-efficient way to do so

Well doing fest all right from the beginning the reason for my defensive set. But it is not the most time-efficient way. I mean around three hours for a whole PFest for me. And it took me quite some forging to be even able to do PFest, but otherhwise i dont use SoL, so i guess it could be possible that i would have been able to do them much sooner.

I also think melee should be buffed, but what would be a good way to buff it? Should we just give it better attack so it can two shot SG, or perhaps reduce the cooldown and OC cost of OFC?

Honestly it's bullshit that melee clear time is triple of that of mage, and that should be fixed. But I'm quite curious what kind of buff could fix them reasonably without going complete broken hmm...

Yeah, that is the question. Actually, the first i would take a look at is the Overcharge of DW, 2H and Niten. Make it somehow easier for them to maintain it. You know? Like 1H. Make it easier to stay most of the time in spirit stance. No big difference of course. But that is where i would start. But no i would let the OFC how it is. I mean the OFC is nice, sure as sure, but i still want to play 1H and not OFC Mage.

Yes, true. The first impression of mage I got was it uses weaker OFC every turn, but maybe I got it the other way around - OFC is melee's way of experiencing how mage feels like every 50 turns (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That being said, I completely agree with you on how we should maintain the identity of melee characters.
One idea I have is this: Rework RoB or make new contents that feature rounds with small number of stronger enemies, maybe like three.
Where 1H thrives with its firepower on single enemy and mage can't do as good since it's more focused on AoE. RoB is in my opinion intended to feature that but it's too insignificant and not accessible compared to grindfest.

Then again, I've only played 1H besides mage so I can't come up with good solutions for other styles, but I think it'd be cool to have contents where each style excels in. But arena should def get a fix or other styles should get buffed so that they would be able to do it as good as mage, cuz it's the most common and important part of HV. It's just unfair the way it is now.

"mage should be better than others cuz it's more expensive' might be true realistically, but it's more like they became that expensive cuz they're so superior lol. Even if we can't get them to get on completely equal footing, gap should def close a bit.

This post has been edited by Saioux: Mar 14 2019, 03:51

I also think melee should be buffed, but what would be a good way to buff it? Should we just give it better attack so it can two shot SG, or perhaps reduce the cooldown and OC cost of OFC?

Honestly it's bullshit that melee clear time is triple of that of mage, and that should be fixed. But I'm quite curious what kind of buff could fix them reasonably without going complete broken hmm...

I've posted it twice but it's always good to repeat (there is always hope that Tenboro will accept the idea (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ).

I think just increasing the ADB by increasing the limits of the abilities. And the increase should be higher for 2H, slightly down for DW, and average for 1H.

Today it is like this:
1H (+40 per ten points of proficiency)
2H (+30 per ten points of proficiency)
DW (+50 per ten points of proficiency)

It should be something like:
1H (+80 per ten points of proficiency)
2H (+120 per ten points of proficiency)
DW (+100 per ten points of proficiency)

My idea is basically to compensate for the lack of defense with brute force. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

But even so all melee styles will continue slower than mages, for the simple fact that we can not hit all the monsters at the same time.

"mage should be better than others cuz it's more expensive' might be true realistically, but it's more like they became that expensive cuz they're so superior lol.

Well, that is one site of the truth. But good equipment is also rare. I mean for 1H a rapier only had to be slaughter and have some damage and you are golden. But a staff? I mean ethereal weapon are overrated, but an ethereal staff is just HGW, while a ethereal rapier isnt worthless.

Damage could be straight up doubled across the board and I think it still wouldn't compete with mage for clear speed (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I think survivability needs to be addressed for DW in particular. I'd say 2H too, but sickentide just blew my mind with the mace pfest clear - I guess those domino strike stuns have a huge effect.

I think evade chance should be ramped, because it is basically none existent again PL monster above round 100, and I think DW and 2H will gain more with this than with ramped damage. Although mages could benefit from this too, I don't think they would feel any difference as they'll breeze through any round either way. But I don't know what should be ramped for heavy meele style.

This post has been edited by fuadhika: Mar 14 2019, 04:29

Well, that is one site of the truth. But good equipment is also rare. I mean for 1H a rapier only had to be slaughter and have some damage and you are golden. But a staff? I mean ethereal weapon are overrated, but an ethereal staff is just HGW, while a ethereal rapier isnt worthless.

If you think about it, these are your options for 1H:
(Disregarding quality)
7 elemental prefixes.

Ethereal, Fiery, Arctic, Shocking, Tempestuous, Hallowed, Demonic

All basically viable.

Axe has 4 suffixes,
Club has 7 suffixes,
Shortsword 7 as well,
Wakizashi 5,
Rapier 7 suffixes,
Only rapier of slaughter is viable for a good 1H/heavy setup.

So basically, for 1H. There are 210 possible drops (not counting quality) only 7 of which are considered good.


For staff you have:
7 elementer prefixes, only Ethereal is useless.
Fiery is not as sought after, so let's say 5 are viable (3 elemental and dark+holy).

Oak staff has 3 suffixes,
Katalox staff has 6 suffixes,
Willow staff has 3 suffixes,
Redwood staff has 7 suffixes,

The viable ones are:
Dark Katalox of destruction
Holy Oak of Heimdall
elemental redwood/willow of destruction

So basically, for mage. There are 133 possible drops (not counting quality), 8 of which are considered good.


7 out of 210
8 out of 133

You'd think rapiers would be more expensive?

If you think about it, these are your options for 1H:
(Disregarding quality)
7 elemental prefixes.

All basically viable.

Axe has 4 suffixes,
Club has 7 suffixes,
Shortsword 7 as well,
Wakizashi 5,
Rapier 7 suffixes,
Only rapier of slaughter is viable for a good 1H/heavy setup.

So basically, for 1H. There are 210 possible drops (not counting quality) only 7 of which are considered good.
For staff you have:
7 elementer prefixes, only Ethereal is useless.
Fiery is not as sought after, so let's say 5 are viable (3 elemental and dark+holy).

Oak staff has 3 suffixes,
Katalox staff has 6 suffixes,
Willow staff has 3 suffixes,
Redwood staff has 7 suffixes,

The viable ones are:
Dark Katalox of destruction
Holy Oak of Heimdall
elemental redwood/willow of destruction

So basically, for mage. There are 133 possible drops (not counting quality), 8 of which are considered good.
7 out of 210
8 out of 133

You'd think rapiers would be more expensive?

Maybe what affecting the price is the demand? I mean there's way more player that want to play mage at end game than to play 1H. It is almost like mandatory to be a mage at end game. Not to mention the advantages of being mage, so it makes sense that even though the probability of mage drop is better than 1H, the price will still be higher.

Maybe what affecting the price is the demand? I mean there's way more player that want to play mage at end game than to play 1H. It is almost like mandatory to be a mage at end game. Not to mention the advantages of being mage, so it makes sense that even though the probability of mage drop is better than 1H, the price will still be higher.

I guess?
Still, there's quite a few 90+ ADB rapiers around....

I guess part of it is that for rapier ADB and parry are the 2 important stats
Whereas for staff it's MDB and EDB and prof
So a higher likelihood to get 2 good rolls for a great rapier than 3 good rolls for a great staff.

Don't 1H weapons drop 3x as often as staves? Plus Waki's are more rare than rapiers no?

What about IWFest? It's not like the drops greatly different from PFFest right?

Just finished iwfest.

Club of slaughter + rapier of the nimble
21782 turns; 02:15:06
Spark of life: 3; cure: 71; Full cure 9; Health gem 28