[X] My Assistant

I forgot to mention this, what about estoc 2 hand style?

Frd or not?
If yes: possibly swift 5 and butcher/fatality
If no: possibly overpower 5 and butcher/fatality
Or at least, thus is what some higherup say...

i have 0 interf and 6.3 burden so
0 burden by shard make sense?

Try using one and see how much your evade changes

And I don't have a single perks (except postage)

You should get first innate arcana for spark of life.

Considering all this below, and the crappyness of my DA mag shield here that I bought from bazaar and I intend to soulfuse, would it be a bad idea to iw/upgrade it (at least a bit) ?

Well, let's see how much it costs to forge 25 Times Block on a Mag Froce Shield.

If the Mag Force Shield starts with 4 Low 2 Mid, it needs:
Low-Grade Wood @ 120 X 41 = 4920
Mid-Grade Wood @ 400 X 96 = 38400
High-Grade Wood @7200 X 1 = 7200
Diluted Catalyst @450 X 15 = 6750
Regular Catalyst @900 X 10 = 9000
Binding of the Barrier @3000 X 20 = 60000
Defense Matrix Modulator @10000 X 25 = 250000

Total = 376270

If the Mag Force Shield starts with 2 Low 4 Mid, it needs:
Low-Grade Wood @ 120 X 13 = 1560
Mid-Grade Wood @ 400 X 111 = 44400
High-Grade Wood @7200 X 14 = 100800
Regular Catalyst @900 X 15 = 13500
Robust Catalyst @2250 X 10 = 22500
Binding of the Barrier @3000 X 20 = 60000
Defense Matrix Modulator @10000 X 25 = 250000

Total = 492760

It worths to investiment, if he/she is lucky to get one.

Upgrade? Sure, i mean you have to remind, you keep most of the stuff you put into upgrades, so even when the shield isnt the best, you will allready have something for the next shield you get. But because there is no jugg for a shield, i would say it is just worth it when you have nothing else to IW.

Considering all this below, and the crappyness of my DA mag shield here that I bought from bazaar and I intend to soulfuse, would it be a bad idea to iw/upgrade it (at least a bit) ?

Yes, I think you can soulfuse it and forge its Block 25 Times, and use it until you find your final Shield or you use Mage.

helmet from auction
armor from drop with no jugg
bought gauntlets from bazzar
leggings from drop with a bit jugg
boots I won from auction last week

Do you have ofc? Are you using skills?
You need to soulfuse your gear. Level bonus matters a lot. You have better block and parry than me but I have 3k more hp with only jug 3 on one slot and no perk. Might be worth replacing the endurance-less pieces with endurance-full ones. 50 end = 600 hp with max hp tank. With buffs and draughts and absorb on, you should be having zero problems on pfudor. Get spark and spirit shield on innate arcana if you really need it.

I want to know how often monsters do parry attacks, before admitting that Overpower is better than F5B4/B5F4.

Cap is 19% +10% pfudor bonus. https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Monster_Stats

Try using one and see how much your evade changes

45% -> 46.1%
useless...

I did the calculation this afternoon, yes it's 19% for a monster that has enough DEX and is Chaos 20. Contrarily to what one may think, that chaos upgrade is quite strong, as if effectively (almost) doubles the monster's parry.

I also did a comparison between the different potencies to know how they truly perform.

1) Overpower 5
In the ideal case of all monsters being high level enough / enough DEX for them to get the maximum parry of 19%, Overpower 5 reduces their chance to parry to 15,2% (two OP5 reduces to 12.16%), effectively increasing the total damage output by (84.8-81)/81=4.6%
But the reality is lower than that, so let's consider the case of non-chaosed monsters. Parry reduced from 10% to 8%, effectively increasing the total damage output by (92-90)/90=2.2%

The effective efficiency of Overpower is then between these two values, and more likely closer to 2.2% than to 4.6%, due to a fair amount of unchaosed (or weakly chaosed) monsters.

2) Fatality 5
As one would guess, Fatality's efficiency heavily depends on a build's crit chance and other crit damage bonus.
Let's take a case of Power 1H with 40% crit chance and 55% crit damage bonus (which isn't far from the reality of both mid-level players and endgame). We get an average damage as follows:

Average damage = 0.6*attack base damage+0.4*attack base damage*(1+crit damage bonus)
Average damage = attack base damage + 0.4*attack base damage*crit damage bonus
Average damage = attack base damage * (1 + 0.4*crit damage bonus)
Average damage = attack basedamage * 1.22

With Fatality 5, it gives a coefficient of 1.26. Total damage buff: (1.26-1.22)/1.22=3.27%

As we can quickly deduce, endgame Power 1H players have a greater buff, midlevel players a lower buff, due to the crit chance. However, a higher base crit damage bonus reduces the efficiency of Fatality 5.

3) Butcher 5
Butcher 5 roughly multiplies the weapon's ADB by 1.1. The first thing to consider with Butcher 5, is the global setup in which it finds itself in. Butcher will represent a greater increase in the total attack base damage on armor sets that don't give any ADB, playstyles that have a lower ability power (mostly 2H then), weapons with a higher ADB. Long story short: Slaughter Power 1H will notice the smallest effect out of Butcher 5, while Shade 2H will have the biggest (let's not consider Plate 2H and Leather 2H...).
Because I have nothing else under my hand, I'll take my build as a basis:
1728 weapon ADB (calculated Butcher 0 ADB on a shortsword forge 13, so a higher rapier can do better I guess)
7597 attack base damage
But 5 gives 1900 weapon ADB, so it's a buff of 272/7597=3.58%
One can safely imagine getting a higher percentage with a very high forged rapier, but likewise something lower if you've got Power of Slaughter or a rapier that isn't as forged as my shortsword.

4) Conclusion
Overall, Overpower, Fatality and Butcher are roughly equivalent. F5B4/B5F4 is still the one thing to get for anything that stuns the monsters (one-handed, club DW or mace two-handed), but for the rest it all depends on what armor you'll equip, what weapon you're using, how much you want to forge. It is still worth noting that two-handed really needs to land the hit on the targeted monster before proccing domino strike, but for that case I'm not sure if that should come into consideration or not.

One thing that is very, very certain at least: these numbers show that the effect of "perfect IW" on weapons is negligible and that running after it at all costs may be useless.

-

Good read. But I think one should always go for accuracy i.e. overpower in melee. Its all about turns to kill and your 2% more dmg will most likely not kill a mob 1 turn faster, but less parry from mobs will save you some turns in a long fight.

That same 2% might aswell kill a mob when its absence wouldn't. So for my part, I'll go F5B4 anyway, only because e-penis. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Well, actually it's also because Balance 2H have a big crit chance bonus (mine will make me exceed 50, maybe 55% crit chance once forged).

This post has been edited by decondelite: Jan 18 2018, 22:36

F5B4/B5F4 is still the one thing to get for anything that stuns the monsters (one-handed, club DW or mace two-handed), but for the rest it all depends on what armor you'll equip, what weapon you're using, how much you want to forge. It is still worth noting that two-handed really needs to land the hit on the targeted monster before proccing domino strike, but for that case I'm not sure if that should come into consideration or not.

For Mace at least, after 1000 thousand attacks it might have a negligible difference indeed, but Overpower will means increase in defense (*´∇`)┌θ☆(ﾉ>_<)ﾉ
Each parried hit = having to take 1 to 7 attacks that you could have avoided (☆_@) from an IW monster in round 99.
This logic follows DW with a Club when using normal attack by a smaller amount. Getting that first stun earlier means pushing that monster attack some ticks forward and for perma-stun purposes, hitting it as soon as it went off, Overpower is interesting too.
If the difference in calculated damage were bigger, then maybe it would be better to disregard a single useless hit you take but as it isn't the case, for stun OP is cool. (◕‿◕)

And as with everything, a small percentage of all calculated damage actually don't happen, because it is lost after the HP reaches 0. It reduces some 0,X% of the final Butcher/Fatality number.
For 2H, which has higher ADB compared to the same armor set but using a 1H weapon, this overdamage ╰(°益°)╯︵ /(.□. /) is even higher.

For 2H, which adds mass proc, less parry = more "splash procs" applied, meaning that the final damage might raise by adding bleeding or PA to more monsters earlier.

For 2H too, which do not add Overcharge like 1H's counters, more hit = faster ε===(っ≧ω≦)っ OC building. Even if the normal final damage were the same, the next FRD or Spirit Stance will come out a bit earlier which means more 0,x% increases for Overpower in the end.

For all that, both procs (multiple mons unlike single), OC building, and overdamage (negligible, but...) Overpower is fun and nice for a 2H build ,,((( ￣□)_／, specially if no FRD is being used. For 1H, neither of this applies with this intensity.

math is aways nice (~‾▽‾)~ thanks for math

This post has been edited by reality_marble: Jan 18 2018, 22:39

Good read. But I think one should always go for accuracy i.e. overpower in melee. Its all about turns to kill and your 2% more dmg will most likely not kill a mob 1 turn faster, but less parry from mobs will save you some turns in a long fight.

Well, 2% more damage have a decent chance of killing some mob faster in the long run (not 2% decrease of turns but >1% easily).

The real problem is that we are all playing @PFUDOR, where monsters have +10% resist/parry, which makes counter-resist/counter-parry the best possible potencies (outside of 1H/club/mace/FRD where stun is used for counter-parry).

Do you have ofc? Are you using skills?
You need to soulfuse your gear. Level bonus matters a lot. You have better block and parry than me but I have 3k more hp with only jug 3 on one slot and no perk. Might be worth replacing the endurance-less pieces with endurance-full ones. 50 end = 600 hp with max hp tank. With buffs and draughts and absorb on, you should be having zero problems on pfudor. Get spark and spirit shield on innate arcana if you really need it.

Yes, I do have OFC but no skill applied because I always use spirit stance, so with 1H+power armor my overcharge gauge is "infinite". And again I'm still searching for good equipment with END bonus, so in battle I use more support like protect+spirit shield+regen+heartseeker at first on iwbth but now on pfudor, I have to add haste and shadowveil and more (twice or three times) amount of draughts...

--> not even a day, I got defeated easily and back on iwbth but I feel iwbth is too easy...

This post has been edited by igs88: Jan 19 2018, 06:05

decondelite, me and Sapo did almost those exact calculations (and a few others) a few months ago in the old thread. Anyway, you may have forgotten to take into account the PFUDOR bonus to parry. It adds another 10% or so. It's all blurry anyway since it's up to you to decide if you want to also consider the 10% from chaos upgrades or not.

Yes, I do have OFC but no skill applied because I always use spirit stance, so with 1H+power armor my overcharge gauge is "infinite". And again I'm still searching for good equipment with END bonus, so in battle I use more support like protect+spirit shield+regen+heartseeker at first on iwbth but now on pfudor, I have to add haste and shadowveil and more (twice or three times) amount of draughts...

--> not even a day, I got defeated easily and back on iwbth but I feel iwbth is too easy...

You should get a better shield. You can clear last 3 PFUDOR Arena in mostly Exquisite armors, no haste or shadowveil.

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/oH5rY5b.png)

You should get a better shield. You can clear last 3 PFUDOR Arena in mostly Exquisite armors, no haste or shadowveil.

Actually I was doing fine on pfudor. Did the first 5-6 stages of arena (5-30rounds) and several REs. I was fine although I had to spend more draughts especially spirit. But when I was in 3 oh 3 (trio n tree with 100 rounds) I got defeated on very very first round (shame on me). So I decided that I have to stay with the hentai a little longer...

And I tweaked my stats a bit and upgraded my rapier and shield and I got this...

decondelite, me and Sapo did almost those exact calculations (and a few others) a few months ago in the old thread. Anyway, you may have forgotten to take into account the PFUDOR bonus to parry. It adds another 10% or so. It's all blurry anyway since it's up to you to decide if you want to also consider the 10% from chaos upgrades or not.

Ah yeah I see. The problem is that I don't read everything, and that info gets lost quite easily.
I suppose that we will need to write that kind of info in stone somewhere and somehow in the wiki, but I have no idea how. But with that consideration, yes OP seems to be the best.

Actually I was doing fine on pfudor. Did the first 5-6 stages of arena (5-30rounds) and several REs. I was fine although I had to spend more draughts especially spirit. But when I was in 3 oh 3 (trio n tree with 100 rounds) I got defeated on very very first round (shame on me). So I decided that I have to stay with the hentai a little longer...

And I tweaked my stats a bit and upgraded my rapier and shield and I got this...

Wait what?
I have all my stat inferior to yours but I can clear all arena in PFUDOR pretty consistently, only when I forget (or lazy) to cast spark of life and suddenly met strong monsters I died.

Yes I have to consume lots of draught and potion in the process and use almost all buff spells I have, but in the end, the income I got from arena is multiple times the cost mmm...

This post has been edited by VawX: Jan 19 2018, 13:25

For Dark / Light Sages using Willow/Oak is Pen5 still a necessity or Pen4/Spel5 would be still almost as good in the last rounds of a PFUFEST ┐(￣∀￣)┌ ?

By the way ┐(￣～￣)┌ from what I got it, the second strike in a DW / Ninten is a proc, not actually an attack, okay? Then I don't need to worry about reforging my Waki that I will probably not replace for the next 100 levels due to first run getting Fat Butt (⁄ ⁄>⁄ ▽ ⁄<⁄ ⁄) huh?

This post has been edited by reality_marble: Jan 20 2018, 00:45

I only have 5100 attack damage even after my soulbound legendary ethereal rapier upgrade, because my armor sucks. It's way more than I had before though. Anyway truth be told I feel that attack damage is near useless for survivability. It barely helps you to beat any tougher challenge, it mostly just (drastically) improves clear speed.

Low level players should not hesitate to use plate armors, warding suffixes, and elemental armor prefixes. I use a crap buckler together with a couple pieces of garbage magnificent plate, that helps me to survive more than pure power armors.

But with that consideration, yes OP seems to be the best.

On anything except 1H or DW club it is. The effect of Overpower is redundant and dilutes badly with styles that stun. The exact amount of dilution depends on your targeting playstyle a bit.