[X] My Assistant

For an item you are going to salvage tho, I don't think forging beyond 5 is really worthy tho. Because you have to spend extra bindings beyond 5. It really depends on the reason for forging, but if it's for damage,

DD1 better than rapier forge beyond 16
DD2 better than rapier forge beyond 70, armor forge beyond 20

Some similar calculations could be done for other weapons/armors as well

How did you get those numbers? I tested it on my sheet and got rapier adb99->100 about the same as DD1->2 when comparing at both all gear L50% and L100% and everything except the adb99 max forged. Reducing armor forge when comparing increased the advantages of adb99->100.

Of course this is given that you're not going to change your rapier for another (and thus having to forge again).

Also, does anyone know the exact roundings and such for stat determination given base, forgelvl, (possible potency), and PXP0?
Does anyone have data on PXP0 of various peerless?

This post has been edited by t_t_z: Feb 16 2019, 08:49

For me, rapier provides about 15% of attack damage, according to the wiki, we have the effect of forging as following:

For ADB/MDB: 1 + 0.278875 * ln(0.1 * forge_count + 1)

So forging from n to n+1 have the following effect on my attack damage:

x = ((1 + 0.278875 * ln(0.1(n+1) + 1))/(1 + 0.278875 * ln(0.1n + 1))-1)*(damage % coming from weapon, in this case, 15)

So essentially I'm getting x% damage increase from approximately 100k, and DD1 costs 8m for 10%, so if 80x>10, forging weapon is better off and vice versa.

For me, power armor contribute about 7% per piece on average, and they cost 150k (binding of slaughter+actuator), so roughly they are third as cost effective as forging your rapier.

By the way I have to correct my calculation for DD2 since it's actually only 4.5% increase over DD1, but I'm too lazy. maybe forging rapier up to 75 might be better than DD2. But as you can see this is personalized for my setting so numbers may vary

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 16 2019, 09:06

Btw, when salvaging, is the number of materials returned rounding down (90%)? If so, should we always forge in multiples of 10?

I think it is just normal rounding, but I'm not sure. But yes you can take that into consideration when forging expensive stuff like power armors and phases.

You're all forgetting one crucial thing: forging affects only one weapon, and you lose a lot of value if you nee to salvage. DD is active for all weapons and won't be deactivated.

That's a very very good point and KamuiSeph actually mentioned it before, but yes this applies to items that you are going to soulfuse and keep for a while.

As for consideration of soulbound items, I still think anything beyond DD3 should be done after you maxforge your weapons, even if you run two or three personas.

Not necessarily. When you do have some hath anyway, better use it yourself instead of losing 1% in the exchange and spending a significant amount of time updating your price because of smartasses who will sell for 1C less than you.

Um, there is no such thing as losing 1%, it's a transaction cost and you have to deal with it. Selling at the exchange for 4040c and selling at 4000c in WTS is same 4000c/hath. Plus the hath price varies so...
Even if the exchange rips off 50% as transaction, DD9 is never going to worth tenth of forging.

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 16 2019, 10:16

Not necessarily. When you do have some hath anyway, better use it yourself instead of losing 1% in the exchange and spending a significant amount of time updating your price because of smartasses who will sell for 1C less than you.

So essentially cashing out assets

Plan it poorly and you end up... poorly

Edit: on the math side of things, let x be weapon's damage contribution %

wouldn't the math be (on n to n+1): x/(1 + n * x /100) = 100x / (100 + n*x)? where did that complicated formula came from? O.o


This post has been edited by ihatenamingthings: Feb 16 2019, 11:20

That's how forging works. It's a rough estimate because it's not considering tiny bit things, but it does its job,

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/The_Forge#Upgrade

That's a very very good point and KamuiSeph actually mentioned it before, but yes this applies to items that you are going to soulfuse and keep for a while.

Yeah I agree this is a key point. If you have to replace whatever you forged then it's going to change its efficiency a lot.

Anyways, I believe I found the cause for discrepancies between our results. It seems that my rapier damage contribution% is much higher (~>20% instead of 15% used in your simulation). Simulations using all gear equal L% (at L50% and L100%) shows this as well.

The factor that may have caused you to have rapier with only 15% damage contribution may be forging itself. At forge 0, my data gives 15%, but increases to around 20% as it gets higher. (for my own gear at forge 10 it's already giving me 18.8%). The low level forges should be done since they're definitely more efficient due to less diminishing returns, and the higher levels will thus have a higher rapier damage contribution %. (this seems to hold true even if you forge armor as well, possibly due to more % on equipment and less on your exp attributes)

My data (the last few sheets starting with "statsGearCompare_lmax_w99_a5"): [drive.google.com] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-a-DAyzQ8v...iew?usp=sharing

I haven't done any data on armor yet, probably quite a bit more complex due to the effective price of actuators (since leveling in one stat means less cost leveling other stats)

This post has been edited by t_t_z: Feb 16 2019, 11:43

Yep, you are right. I was too naive to set the weapon proportion to be fixed. When it starts out as 0.15, at max forge it's about 25% when I only take the ADB into consideration while fixing other values.

Actually in this case forge destroy DD2 even more as for my case with the modification even 99-100 is notches better than DD2. What I'm gonna do instead is figuring out how many forges are needed at each forge level to mimic that of DD instead of cost per 1% since the proportion fluctuates.

EDIT: So I found something interesting. Putting all things aside, given initial weapon proportion of 15%, in order to get a 10% increase (DD1), you need to max forge. cost per 1% increase forging is superior up to forge level 22, tho. I guess one other consideration is 10% for 8m and 1% for 800k are actually different deals. So if you have 8m, while the first 2m are better spent on forging, it's still just better to DD.

But then again, that's only for DD1, cost efficiency down to a quarter is just too trashy of a deal :/

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 16 2019, 12:18

Is there any thread where you can get together and buy and sell stuffs instead of dedicated WTS/WTB thread? I need to buy some Amnesia Shards lol. IW is such a bitch...Any rough idea how long it would take to get but+fat=9 on average?

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 16 2019, 18:59

Any rough idea how long it would take to get but+fat=9 on average?

Iirc between 0 and 96 reforge. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Any rough idea how long it would take to get but+fat=9 on average?

I would estimated 30~80 amnesia shards.

dam...I might burn out all of my stamina and still not get it right lol

Or the next IW is your golden number. I mean i got once the IW i wanted at the first try and another time it took me months.

dam...I might burn out all of my stamina and still not get it right lol

That's not a thing easily doable at your level. Not impossible either, but extremely tedious.

I really really really hope that's the case....this IW's annoying af

Is there any thread where you can get together and buy and sell stuffs instead of dedicated WTS/WTB thread?

no.

I tried to make such a thread in the past but no one ever posted in it.

That reminds me, another benefit of slow leveling, and possibly complete hibernation (stop fighting entirely) is that effectively speeds up the rate that other people drop stuff, so you can wait for what you want. (Although if you are someone who measures your progress relative to real world time elapsed, you should keep fighting).

Sometimes, just having credits is not enough, you need to wait for someone to drop the equipment you want, and they have to be willing to sell it. If you have other things to do in your life, you can go into hibernation while only checking auctions for a while.

I really really really hope that's the case....this IW's annoying af

Wait... you aren't planning to do it yourself, are you? You really don't want to go for non-simple IW without Dark Descent. Let me (or someone who offers IW/DD services) know if you want help with either IW or Reforging.

Also, Fat+But=9 may not be that necessary on non-endgame rapier. I think anything that doesn't have swift strike will probably suffice?