[X] My Assistant

New question guys, I was messing about in WTS/WTB to get a sense of the marketplace and I found out a lot people sells basic potion way cheaper than the ingame market price, but I can't for the life of me find out information on how trade even starts, or works.
Edit: Nevermind, I found the mooglemail.

you're a low-level newbie so don't forget to look for free stuff in WTS
we love newbies and help them

you're a low-level newbie so don't forget to look for free stuff in WTS
we love newbies and help them

80% the reason I was lurking there until I got sidetracked.

snip

Well it's a way of thinking so I can't say you are wrong in measuring your progress based on level, but then only doing RE and maybe DwD would be the best strategy until some level, then when Dawn EXP becomes too much just DwD. Clearing arena everyday is same as clearing it once every week, if it weren't for Dawn EXP, clearing one RE is same as clearing all RE. If you play only the best part of the game that last five minutes/day, but I'm not so sure if that copes too well with grinding nature of this game.

Of course 450~480 items with same base as 500 items will be priced better generally. I'm saying the gap is not gonna be big, and the items with the gap won't be anything that stellar. Given the inefficiency of the market is for this game with ridiculous pricing in some shops and such, I'm saying the difference is negligible and not worth skipping the RE to get it. If RE has same quality roll as DwD, skipping it is huge and seeing how loot perks affect RE just as it affect arenas, grindfest, iw, idk. Best strategy for progress based on level would be just clearing DwD and call it a day, but I still think you should take real life time into consideration at least partially.

Mags are gonna be trash for both 450 and 500, meh-Leg might be a bit better but it's not gonna worth much anyways, charged heimdall is just not gonna care about the level.

Slowlevelling will certainly be superior IF your slowlevelling is solely coming from lack of gold stars and exp boost. To me it appeared you are focusing too much on the slowlevelling itself. doing half arenas and skipping the dawn will be slower than doing all arenas, but that's it. There honestly isn't any benefit to it. If you can only play for a limited time then of course it's best to optimally choose which arenas to clear and such, but intentionally doing less than you could for slow levelling...idk about that.

As for playing with GS vs without, I think playing with GS will get you to play pffest faster and such, but it's a bit tricky. Just as your low-level gears worth more for the quality vs 500-level gears, you also have to pay more to get those gears. Essentially your credit worth less, except for purchase of top-notch gears, which is either not affordable or soulfusable due to level. Value of your credit almost consistently vary with your level, but getting drops is just pure Snowflake, so I'd rather level up fast and get minimal gears that can get me to do pffest,etc for cheap.

On the other hand, I just think it's stupid that there's no inherent benefit to levelling up past 300 in the game. All the benefits are derivative of pool of max level players that already exist because idk higher level maybe meant something pre-0.82? If HV were just released a new game as it is now, nobody would really want to level up fast, and I think that's just not right. Player should either scale faster than monsters and there should be some contents open exclusive to max level players and so on, but that's just my idea (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

Derail for a bit to respond to previous posts...Or rather, some small thoughts from an orphan (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

--------------------------------------------------unimportant random thoughts-------------------------------------------------

I tried not to complain about anything but it's really hard, people like to complain even if there is no reason or no problem at all from other people's perspective...maybe I haven't experienced life for long enough, I just got born last year.

I think we (a large portion of people) like to compare with others, either in front of everyone or inside your own head. Of course, most of the time we would pay attention to people that have better things or have something relatively good and we are just envious or jealous because we don't have those. It's not like we don't understand how much effort the person had to put in to obtain that. It's simply that I saw you have it, and I don't. You probably have glimpsed my signature, no one really know how much effort you put in except maybe yourself. All we see is your appearance, or perhaps what you want other people to perceive.

In some sense, I think the idea is quite similar to survivor bias, all I can see are people with all these good stuff and yet I am far from getting them. Of course there are countless people that might be just too far from reaching me even, but I don't get to see them and also that's not how our mind works... at least not how my mind works. When you are jealous about parvenus, it's unlikely that you also think about billions of people who don't even have the chance to dream about that, they don't even know.

I don't want to be a person who complains about things which seem to be impolite or sarcastic. I apologize if my complaints offended anyone... I think these complaints are small enough compare to something like having seven digits in debt.

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I don't play a lot but I do play a considerable amount of time. I clear all arenas and also IW my own equipment while using only a few energy drinks. It's good that I didn't train adoptive learner to a great extent so I still level up slow in my own opinion. Of couse it looks like power leveling to many people. I did train all the luck related trainings to 80% which I think is enough for now as I've used up 90% of my credits already and I'm probably not gonna "restock" in the near future. So I did put some effort to get better drops in this regard. It's just that these seem to be too tiny compare to yours.

Btw, when salvaging, is the number of materials returned rounding down (90%)? If so, should we always forge in multiples of 10?

For an item you are going to salvage tho, I don't think forging beyond 5 is really worthy tho. Because you have to spend extra bindings beyond 5. It really depends on the reason for forging, but if it's for damage,

DD1 better than rapier forge beyond 16
DD2 better than rapier forge beyond 70, armor forge beyond 20

Some similar calculations could be done for other weapons/armors as well

For an item you are going to salvage tho, I don't think forging beyond 5 is really worthy tho. Because you have to spend extra bindings beyond 5. It really depends on the reason for forging, but if it's for damage,

DD1 better than rapier forge beyond 16
DD2 better than rapier forge beyond 70, armor forge beyond 20

Some similar calculations could be done for other weapons/armors as well

How did you get those numbers? I tested it on my sheet and got rapier adb99->100 about the same as DD1->2 when comparing at both all gear L50% and L100% and everything except the adb99 max forged. Reducing armor forge when comparing increased the advantages of adb99->100.

Of course this is given that you're not going to change your rapier for another (and thus having to forge again).

Also, does anyone know the exact roundings and such for stat determination given base, forgelvl, (possible potency), and PXP0?
Does anyone have data on PXP0 of various peerless?

This post has been edited by t_t_z: Feb 16 2019, 08:49

For me, rapier provides about 15% of attack damage, according to the wiki, we have the effect of forging as following:

For ADB/MDB: 1 + 0.278875 * ln(0.1 * forge_count + 1)

So forging from n to n+1 have the following effect on my attack damage:

x = ((1 + 0.278875 * ln(0.1(n+1) + 1))/(1 + 0.278875 * ln(0.1n + 1))-1)*(damage % coming from weapon, in this case, 15)

So essentially I'm getting x% damage increase from approximately 100k, and DD1 costs 8m for 10%, so if 80x>10, forging weapon is better off and vice versa.

For me, power armor contribute about 7% per piece on average, and they cost 150k (binding of slaughter+actuator), so roughly they are third as cost effective as forging your rapier.

By the way I have to correct my calculation for DD2 since it's actually only 4.5% increase over DD1, but I'm too lazy. maybe forging rapier up to 75 might be better than DD2. But as you can see this is personalized for my setting so numbers may vary

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 16 2019, 09:06

Btw, when salvaging, is the number of materials returned rounding down (90%)? If so, should we always forge in multiples of 10?

I think it is just normal rounding, but I'm not sure. But yes you can take that into consideration when forging expensive stuff like power armors and phases.

You're all forgetting one crucial thing: forging affects only one weapon, and you lose a lot of value if you nee to salvage. DD is active for all weapons and won't be deactivated.

That's a very very good point and KamuiSeph actually mentioned it before, but yes this applies to items that you are going to soulfuse and keep for a while.

As for consideration of soulbound items, I still think anything beyond DD3 should be done after you maxforge your weapons, even if you run two or three personas.

Not necessarily. When you do have some hath anyway, better use it yourself instead of losing 1% in the exchange and spending a significant amount of time updating your price because of smartasses who will sell for 1C less than you.

Um, there is no such thing as losing 1%, it's a transaction cost and you have to deal with it. Selling at the exchange for 4040c and selling at 4000c in WTS is same 4000c/hath. Plus the hath price varies so...
Even if the exchange rips off 50% as transaction, DD9 is never going to worth tenth of forging.

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 16 2019, 10:16

Not necessarily. When you do have some hath anyway, better use it yourself instead of losing 1% in the exchange and spending a significant amount of time updating your price because of smartasses who will sell for 1C less than you.

So essentially cashing out assets

Plan it poorly and you end up... poorly

Edit: on the math side of things, let x be weapon's damage contribution %

wouldn't the math be (on n to n+1): x/(1 + n * x /100) = 100x / (100 + n*x)? where did that complicated formula came from? O.o


This post has been edited by ihatenamingthings: Feb 16 2019, 11:20

That's how forging works. It's a rough estimate because it's not considering tiny bit things, but it does its job,

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/The_Forge#Upgrade

That's a very very good point and KamuiSeph actually mentioned it before, but yes this applies to items that you are going to soulfuse and keep for a while.

Yeah I agree this is a key point. If you have to replace whatever you forged then it's going to change its efficiency a lot.

Anyways, I believe I found the cause for discrepancies between our results. It seems that my rapier damage contribution% is much higher (~>20% instead of 15% used in your simulation). Simulations using all gear equal L% (at L50% and L100%) shows this as well.

The factor that may have caused you to have rapier with only 15% damage contribution may be forging itself. At forge 0, my data gives 15%, but increases to around 20% as it gets higher. (for my own gear at forge 10 it's already giving me 18.8%). The low level forges should be done since they're definitely more efficient due to less diminishing returns, and the higher levels will thus have a higher rapier damage contribution %. (this seems to hold true even if you forge armor as well, possibly due to more % on equipment and less on your exp attributes)

My data (the last few sheets starting with "statsGearCompare_lmax_w99_a5"): [drive.google.com] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-a-DAyzQ8v...iew?usp=sharing

I haven't done any data on armor yet, probably quite a bit more complex due to the effective price of actuators (since leveling in one stat means less cost leveling other stats)

This post has been edited by t_t_z: Feb 16 2019, 11:43

Yep, you are right. I was too naive to set the weapon proportion to be fixed. When it starts out as 0.15, at max forge it's about 25% when I only take the ADB into consideration while fixing other values.

Actually in this case forge destroy DD2 even more as for my case with the modification even 99-100 is notches better than DD2. What I'm gonna do instead is figuring out how many forges are needed at each forge level to mimic that of DD instead of cost per 1% since the proportion fluctuates.

EDIT: So I found something interesting. Putting all things aside, given initial weapon proportion of 15%, in order to get a 10% increase (DD1), you need to max forge. cost per 1% increase forging is superior up to forge level 22, tho. I guess one other consideration is 10% for 8m and 1% for 800k are actually different deals. So if you have 8m, while the first 2m are better spent on forging, it's still just better to DD.

But then again, that's only for DD1, cost efficiency down to a quarter is just too trashy of a deal :/

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 16 2019, 12:18

Is there any thread where you can get together and buy and sell stuffs instead of dedicated WTS/WTB thread? I need to buy some Amnesia Shards lol. IW is such a bitch...Any rough idea how long it would take to get but+fat=9 on average?

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 16 2019, 18:59

Any rough idea how long it would take to get but+fat=9 on average?

Iirc between 0 and 96 reforge. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Any rough idea how long it would take to get but+fat=9 on average?

I would estimated 30~80 amnesia shards.

dam...I might burn out all of my stamina and still not get it right lol

Or the next IW is your golden number. I mean i got once the IW i wanted at the first try and another time it took me months.