[X] My Assistant

what I really don't understand is people who refuse to spend a little time to understand other's perspective yet have time to diss their effort. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Straight back to you, no offense. You're actually the one who doesn't understand his real issue, nor even what is the actual use of your own numbers, hence my reaction. And you're not thinking even two seconds about the reason why I've stated that either.

I do have understood why he wondered about XP/round it in the first place, but I'll admit that I did not bother answering it simply because I did not feel like to. That much I can be blamed for. Do you even know yourself why you've apparently spent time to calculate such numbers? I mean, have you ever asked yourself why one would want to optimize his XP/round? Perhaps a bit, but not hard enough.

Allow me to elaborate the reasons why I said that such numbers are useless, and why his initial wonder is questionable just as well.

So, let's start with why "XP/round" is a rather useless number. It's true that all arenas are more or less efficient regarding that matter, that much can't be denied. But given the arena compositions and the XP multiplicators, unlike you I don't need extended calculations or benchmarking to see that following the order 80/100/90/65/60/75/70/55 for the 2nd page of arenas is already good enough. All I need is the wiki that describes the XP multiplicators and round compositions. D'you know what? The order in which one plays the arenas is all that matters when one wants to optimize his XP/round ratio. Just play arenas in that order and you know you're more or less along the lines. That much solves the issue, so anything beyond that is useless. Want to include the SG arenas? Just toss 150/110 in the front and call it a day too.

What about his matter, that consists in staying at 80+ stamina? Just do these arenas: 100+90+80+75+70+65+20 = 500 rounds = 20 stamina. Then crack an ED, then 150+125+110+60+55 = 500 rounds = 20 stamina. Assuming you have the "Long gone before daylight" perk, otherwise make it two EDs. That way you'll be at 100 stamina everyday when starting the arenas and you'll remain above 80 stamina at all times. You'll fail to regenerate 4 stamina per day though.

What if you just want to max out your XP income without ever using any ED? Just do all the same arenas I've stated, but by being below 80 stamina! You'll get more XP and more credits+drops that way than just doing 100+90+80+75+70+65+20 while being at 80+ stamina.

What if you want to benefit from the 80+ stamina bonus to its fullest everyday without chugging EDs? Then you need to spend 24 stamina everyday, thus 500(25*20 stamina)+200 (50*4 stamina) rounds. It makes 150+110+80+100+90+75+70+25, so pretty much all the second page arenas from top to bottom till the 70 rounds arena, excluding the 125 rounds SG arena. This method is the most efficient one of all.

Bonus: if one wants to do as many arenas as possible everyday without ever chugging energy drinks, then one has to do 1200 rounds everyday, which corresponds to almost all arenas with 30+ rounds. This isn't XP efficient, but at least it's roughly equivalent to doing 500 rounds everyday while staying at 80+ stamina. ... except you earn way more drops and credits

Conclusion 1: in all cases, calculating the XP/round of arenas is pointless.
Conclusion 2: optimizing the XP/round is contradictory. In other words, it's futile considerations. If you want more XP, then just play more and chug energy drinks. If you don't want to chug energy drinks, then just play the game, clear enough arenas to use 24 stamina everyday.
Conclusion 3: doing just enough arenas to stay at 80+ stamina, without ever using energy drinks, is completely inefficient.
=> If one's issue is more about time but you want to XP at its best, then just playing the non-SG arenas in the 2nd page of arenas, starting off the 100 rounds one, then 90, 80... should be way enough.


So now, I'm saying it again: the XP/round is a useless number meant to solve issues that don't even exist in the first place. And trying to stay above 80 stamina at all times is inefficient just as well, if one isn't ready to use energy drinks big time. The only existing issues are:
1) How to profit from the x2 bonus provided by the 80+ stamina to its maximum everyday
2) How to get the most XP possible out of your time at hand
To those issues, the answer I've given here.


So fudo, contrarily to what you may think, I do appreciate your efforts, your dedication to calculate, benchmark things and all, and your will to help answering questions. I hold you in high regards for that. And still contrarily to what you seem to think, I don't spit things out of nowhere just to be a troll. I do have quite a lot of knowledge regarding this game myself, even if my favorite fields are completely different than yours: practice, player behavior and thought process, market tendencies, or off-meta.

Because I've understoood veeeery well what Saioux's real issue is, allow me to ask him this: why do you even want to max out your XP income in the first place?

TL;DR
This post elaborates on why calculating XP/round is a completely useless matter and why trying to stay at 80+ stamina at all times is not necessarily a good thing.

Oh yea mb I confused Spirit Shield for SoL. Lol was it always the case for you? I thought you could start clearing PFUDOR arena from lv350ish, and with all this trouble I'm having at merely IWBTH I can't imagine how I'd pull that off, without SoL ;(

There is a huge difference between IWBTH and PFUDOR so nothing wrong in playing IWBTH until you can comfortably play PFUDOR with draughts

And also dont let us forget that IBTH was for a long time the highest difficulty.

snip

Well your comment is towards Fudo, but since it all begun with me calculating EXP/round, I'll have a say.

First, you can't go around saying someone's effort is futile and useless and inefficient. It was honestly really rude and it does not become humble two cents just because you said it's your humble two cent. For me, the calculation was interesting enough to be worth it, and you are not in the place to say otherwise.

Order is what matters, but it's based on at least a rough estimate of EXP/round of each arena, so yes you need to know the EXP/round.

The main reason I did this was because I can't just "crack" an ED because I don't have that money. That puts my daily limit of rounds to 600~1200 rounds, and it's essentially a tradeoff between EXP and income. I've decided to spend 12 stamina above 80 and 12 below 80, because that way I can do all my RE above 80. Based on calculation I do 80+90+100 above 80 and first 30 rounds of 65, because you don't have stamina regen during battle so you have to waste some stamina anyways, and 65 round arena starts off with 5 monsters and 1.3 multiplier, making it the most efficient arena among the leftovers. All this analysis worth it? Probably not, I might make 2~3% more EXP by this analysis. Why do I do this? Hell, cuz it's fun. You said you do have understood why I wondered about EXP/round and actually even said I am WRONG in wondering about it, but no, you did not understand and there's nothing wrong with me wondering about it.

With all due respect, I really appreciate your auction and shop as a newbie, but that doesn't give you right to be mean to other people. Don't be aggressive just because it's not your thing.

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 3 2019, 02:22

First, you can't go around saying someone's effort is futile and useless and inefficient.

Oh yes, he can. You should read some of his other post. I suggest this one

no spoiler

No, really it is hilarious when you notice what random post he made there. So i wont spoiler that. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I don't want to upset him too much as a beneficiary of his auction, but yea that quote is really out of context lol.

Huh. What I did was record stamina cost from wiki, did the second page of arenas on PFUDOR while on +80 stamina to find toal exp, then used Solver to solve for max exp with 24 (20+4 hours regen to do all these arena) stamina as a constraint. Took 2 sub-optimal days of testing +1 hour to set up the model. No fuss about EXP per round either.

List:
Sealed Power
To Kill A God
Eve of Death
The Trio and the Tree
End of Days
A Dance With Dragons

I came to the conclusion that EXP mod provide partial benefits, but number of monsters mattered more. Thus Eternal Darkness sucks for levelling, unless you want to kill schoolgirls for income.

This post has been edited by RibbonsCan: Feb 3 2019, 03:37

unless you want to kill schoolgirls for income.

Tbh i dont see why not. I mean more income does mean more credits one can spent on AL or to one of the exp hath perks and by that of course increase your overall xp.

EXP mod and number of monsters should go together don't they? For instance if EXP mod is 2 and number of monsters is 450, effectively you can treat it as 900 monsters with EXP mod 1. (EXP Mod*Total Monster Count)/Rounds should give one a rough idea of EXP/round.
SG Arena is tedious but they give good sum of money so I try to do them lol.

It seems these analyses are made under assumption of full stamina at Dawn, which is not the case for me ever since I messed up the first few riddles and now eternally stuck around 80 XD.

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 3 2019, 03:42

What are your thoughts on equipment upgrade? Should I just upgrade essential stats, i.e. dmg and parry, or everything up to five?

Oh and I looked into Force Shield and Power armor and they require some weird shits like modulator and actuator that cost 5k, 50k, respectively. Nope, I'm not gonna bother with them on my exquisite gears lol

Tbh i dont see why not. I mean more income does mean more credits one can spent on AL or to one of the exp hath perks and by that of course increase your overall xp.

If it takes ages for you to kill them but you want to supercharge your leveling so you can equip your stronger items to take care of them in a timely manner, you'd want to skip them.

EXP mod and number of monsters should go together don't they? For instance if EXP mod is 2 and number of monsters is 450, effectively you can treat it as 900 monsters with EXP mod 1. (EXP Mod*Total Monster Count)/Rounds should give one a rough idea of EXP/round.

I prefer finishing an arena and taking the result.

For me,
Trio and the Tree PFUDOR clocks in at 170mil exp, 498 monsters and 4 stamina to finish.
Eternal Darkness PFUDOR clocks in at 150mil exp, 443 monster and 5 stamina to finish.

It seems these analyses are made under assumption of full stamina at Dawn, which is not the case for me ever since I messed up the first few riddles and now eternally stuck around 80 XD.

... it doesn't matter because if you took away the bonus, results will be the same. It's only if you apply them unevenly.

You can either drink your Energy Drinks or stop playing for a day and shitpost if you are dead set on powerleveling.

That could work, but I find 12/12 to be more appealing due to extra income you can get. One braindead analysis would be 12/12 = 900 rounds vs. everything above 80 = 600 rounds. It's not gonna be 50% more income of course, but I expect at least 20% income increase and exp decrease is only about 5%-10%.
Also for SG, except for Eternal Darkness, both are extremely good because they are great both exp wise and incomewise, especial DwD tops every arena in every metric, so I guess only reason for not playing them is they take too long. As for Eternal Darkness, the first 50 rounds with only two monsters make it trashy - without the EXP mod it's essentially fourth arena exp-wise, but I guess I still grind it for that trophies lol.

I guess the merits of EXP/round exist only within the context of distributing your stamina above and below 80, cuz it helps you calculate which arenas to play above 80 for any kind of combination.

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 3 2019, 04:21

-snip-

You can't possibly upset me, don't worry.

Know what? You're right, I'll let you experiment on all this, I should have encouraged you to do so right from the beginning. Just do it seriously and keep me updated on your results, I'm waiting for your results and conclusion eagerly. I promize that I'll send you (and fudo) a few energy drinks when you do so. Only then you'll know what being mean is, though. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

I don't need your encouragement, no need for you to tell me how to experiment or how to play this game, and I have no obligation to update you on the results of experiment I'm not going to continue, because it's already done on my end. So don't wait for my results and conclusions because you won't get them. Don't send me any energy drink and no thanks, not interested in knowing what being mean is.

Seriously tho, you are not any authoritative figure and nobody is, so take your condescending manner elsewhere.

2H here, I do at most Nintendo when I feel like wasting time. IWBTH* schoolgrills bc it's easy (might gonna try PFU soon).

Alot depends on RNG, about 2-5, 0 if I'm lucky with gems and riddlemasters.

Draughts on the other hand... let's just say I don't bother counting anymore.

Speaking of which, how much time does it take for you 1-H to clear arena?

This post has been edited by ihatenamingthings: Feb 3 2019, 04:59

Wait you clear normal arena on IWBTH but schoolgirls at PFUDOR? Because I find SG to be more difficult. Huh interesting.

I guess I don't have parry and block chance high enough yet, and my mitigations suck, so either I should lower the difficulty or just use haste again lol

Mb, meant to type IWTBH, just had my coffee :/

SG for 2h is easy. 2H main issue is slow OC regen, our OC ability is ridiculously good.

I can penetrate armor, follow up by a stun, that kills/almost kill all targets hit (5 targets) for a total of 100 OC. SG happens to be so tanky, yet weak, that I can recharge both my CD and OC bar, which normally isn't possible otherwise.

Goddess and the tree is broken easy too, if I get some OC buildup. With my current AS, it's (almost) a permanent stun as long as I can sustain it. Hilariously, if monsters get ripped tanky (so they stay stunned and don't die so I can regain my OC), it would be helluva easier.

I'd say for normal arenas they normally take about 10~15 minutes, and SG arenas take 20-25 minutes. I guess at this point I should still use haste because my block and parry are not high enough so taking hits do more harm than good lol

This post has been edited by Saioux: Feb 3 2019, 05:32

Wait you clear normal arena on IWBTH but schoolgirls at PFUDOR? Because I find SG to be more difficult. Huh interesting.

SG runs are easier.
Try cast weaken and silence on SGs. These 2 are super, ultimate useful against SGs if you still spark a lot. I guess their spirit attacks are still destructive to you.

Mb, meant to type IWTBH, just had my coffee :/

SG for 2h is easy. 2H main issue is slow OC regen, our OC ability is ridiculously good.

Just what I saw from lololo's records. 2H light is slower than any other styles. 2h heavy is another story as I don't know yet.

2H gears are cheaper though.

I run both 1H (PFURE - impossible with 2H) and arenas

Planning to build enough creds for a mage set, which I figured gonna cost an arm and a leg. Unless ofc, that I get realllllllllly lucky with drops.