[X] My Assistant

You know that Veil also reduces your overall counter attacks?

... nope

great, now I have to solve a LP problem to play a browser game. *facepalm*

... nope

great, now I have to solve a LP problem to play a browser game. *facepalm*

Well, just remind this order Evade comes first, Block comes second and last but not least comes Parry. So high Evade reduces allready the numbers of attacks that even can be blocked or parried, so by that reduces the number of counter attacks.

Sadly I only run Arena with 2H on a crappy old af soulbound longsword that's barely good enough from being replaced...

They do have PA debuff though, from 2H RB. GC sometimes shave 50%+ HP off Konata with imperil + PA, but it takes forever to kill them.

Not that I mind it too much, as it gives me plenty of OC and CD time, as they don't really do much damage. But the stamina cost for taking that long is... too much.

I think your best bet for 2H in SG arena is to use dark/holy infusion as 2H don't have skill that give massive damage like vital strike or frenzied blow...
or maybe you could try use OFC??? tough I don't really know if it works with 2H...

I'd say how it feels matters, and total turn count as well, as it affect your stamina usage/efficiency. Less counter damage means you get hit less though, so essentially means you're killing them *faster* (ingame speed, not irl), which... is what haste do.

Though I agree, haste is not worth its MP cost, at all, for 1H. You're better off getting more cures/veil/protection.

12 Rounds
208 Turns.

Void Strike dmg - 230567
Counter dmg - 890598
Critical dmg - 225136
Normal Hit dmg - 411010

I Kinda got away midfight and maybe the effect of the shard gone off since the last post.

The way I see things is: I waste less MP Potions, and I always have SL on, since I lost it sometimes and didn't have the MP to cure and use SL again or HP Pot was on CD, so I can survive better without haste. That's the way I made it through the last arena on IWBTH.

I think your best bet for 2H in SG arena is to use dark/holy infusion as 2H don't have skill that give massive damage like vital strike or frenzied blow...
or maybe you could try use OFC??? tough I don't really know if it works with 2H...

OFC is terrible for 2H, it does not build OC fast enough (counter-strike give lots of OC, which 2H does not have). Also tried that (for late into the run), and it does not OHKO schoolgirls.

I'll get the infusions next time then, thanks (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, using the OFC against SG isnt as easy. I mean from time to time i see an opening to use it. Mostly in DwD and when there are three SG per round. You have course to weaken them before using the OFC, but used right it can save one a few turn.

Sadly I only run Arena with 2H on a crappy old af soulbound longsword that's barely good enough from being replaced...

They do have PA debuff though, from 2H RB. GC sometimes shave 50%+ HP off Konata with imperil + PA, but it takes forever to kill them.

Not that I mind it too much, as it gives me plenty of OC and CD time, as they don't really do much damage. But the stamina cost for taking that long is... too much.

Try Imperil+Longsword (with Dark+Holy strike) on SGs. Massive damage + No need to use skills. You don't need to stack Imperil + PA on schoolgirls, it's absolutely useless because their PMit is inferior to regular monster's. At Lvl250, they have exactly 46.71% Pmit for Konata, 48.98% PMit for the other 3. So a single cast of Imperil will negate their PMit almost entirely, even considering your current Imperil upgrades.

Sadly I only run Arena with 2H on a crappy old af soulbound longsword that's barely good enough from being replaced...

They do have PA debuff though, from 2H RB. GC sometimes shave 50%+ HP off Konata with imperil + PA, but it takes forever to kill them.

Not that I mind it too much, as it gives me plenty of OC and CD time, as they don't really do much damage. But the stamina cost for taking that long is... too much.

you could go
1 : use imperil instead of PA and use the OC for spirit stance
2 : use 1h rapier and utilize it's PA + it's permanent spirit stance.

12 Rounds
208 Turns.

Void Strike dmg - 230567
Counter dmg - 890598
Critical dmg - 225136
Normal Hit dmg - 411010

I Kinda got away midfight and maybe the effect of the shard gone off since the last post.

The way I see things is: I waste less MP Potions, and I always have SL on, since I lost it sometimes and didn't have the MP to cure and use SL again or HP Pot was on CD, so I can survive better without haste. That's the way I made it through the last arena on IWBTH.

in the end, it doesn't matter where the damage comes from as what we seek is faster clear speed. what I really wants to see to be tested comprehensibly is the question whether having more counter means faster clear speed, whether it's always true or true only in specific condition (and what condition it is).
from my 4 run on PFGrindfest, the "always true" doesn't seems the case.
2 run use Haste the other 2 doesn't. The run with haste record 25k-ish counter, the run without haste record 35k-ish counter. Though the fact that all run is on 26k-ish turn and 2 and half hour-ish clear time, means those 10k counters difference doesn't give substantial changes in clear time.
I ever heard about argument that it's harder to keep overcharge up from less counter, but it seems that isn't the case either as both run record equal number of OFC, meaning that keeping 200+ OC for on demand OFC isn't that different for either playstyle.

So, my next question is, in what way you could convert more counter to faster clear time?
I did mention on the link that possible extra PA management to boost the counter damage, maybe I'll try that somewhere in the near future.
Or maybe it's only working on non-OFC run (as it eclipse every source of damage anyway), or only on low round arenas, or on SG arenas, or how?

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Jan 25 2019, 14:16

1 : use imperil instead of PA and use the OC for spirit stance

I really dont get it. Why instead? I mean it take me a while to kill an with normal attacks and without any debuff SG, but an SG with imperil and at least two PA? Is nothing. I just use VS and they are death or at least only two turns away from it.

I really dont get it. Why instead? I mean it take me a while to kill an with normal attacks and without any debuff SG, but an SG with imperil and at least two PA? Is nothing. I just use VS and they are death or at least only two turns away from it.

because - unless I missed something - he's using long sword. and I believe using the overcharge for spirit stance is better than "wasting" it on extra PA over imperil.
that's why I implicitly encouraging him to ditch that 2h and change to 1h rapier (and use it's natural PA + perma spirit stance on point number 2.)

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Jan 25 2019, 15:03

I still dont understand why instead? As i understand your post, you suggest him two options, and they both look to me as if imperil and PA is something to be used instead but not together. And i really dont understand why. Because i use them together and i am quite happy with the results, even if you use an element that doesnt weaken the SG itself, even if 3x PA is enough to bring the PM of the SG to the minimum -tbh i dont even know if that is true or not, but i will look that one up- and all that, imperil does usually hit more than just SG and by that does still decrease the overall time to clear the SG arena, so i really dont see the point in not using imperil just because one use a rapier that can cause PA. I mean imo PA gets only reliable after you reached an high enough crit chance (every critical hit is equal to proc the debuf) i would say around 40%. So seriously, why using them instead, instead using them together? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

So every level of PA takes 25% PM, so yeah, using them together is imo useful. Btw now that i think about it, to proc the weapon ability could even actually be a reason to use balance power armor afterall. I have to check that sometime.

This post has been edited by Uncle Stu: Jan 25 2019, 15:23

I still dont understand why instead? As i understand your post, you suggest him two options, and they both look to me as if imperil and PA is something to be used instead but not together. And i really dont understand why. Because i use them together and i am quite happy with the results, even if you use an element that doesnt weaken the SG itself, even if 3x PA is enough to bring the PM of the SG to the minimum -tbh i dont even know if that is true or not, but i will look that one up- and all that, imperil does usually hit more than just SG and by that does still decrease the overall time to clear the SG arena, so i really dont see the point in not using imperil just because one use a rapier that can cause PA. I mean imo PA gets only reliable after you reached an high enough crit chance (every critical hit is equal to proc the debuf) i would say around 40%. So seriously, why using them instead, instead using them together? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

So every level of PA takes 25% PM, so yeah, using them together is imo useful. Btw now that i think about it, to proc the weapon ability could even actually be a reason to use balance power armor afterall. I have to check that sometime.

Of course he could do Imperil+PA+SS on his longsword but he need to spend 50 overcharge for proc-ing the PA for "mere" 5 turns followed by 5 turns cooldown before reapplying another PA, and just to remind you 2h can't do perma spirit stance, so if you spend your OC for skill, you'll have less time on +100% damage on spirit stance bonus.

and I never said anything about not using imperil on rapier.

edit
in retrospect, it seems it's all because of wording, he is using PA + imperil on longsword, and what I'm advising is not proccing the PA and use the OC for Spirit stance instead (or change to 1h rapier)
so it should be
1 : use imperil (only) instead of PA (+ imperil) and use the OC for spirit stance.

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Jan 25 2019, 17:17

Guys, keep in mind that 1H's permanent spirit stance is not a thing under lvl 250, maybe even for some time above.

Guys, keep in mind that 1H's permanent spirit stance is not a thing under lvl 250, maybe even for some time above.

are you sure about that?
I could vaguely remember that it's almost perma between mid 100 when I start doing 2 counter/turn.
and afaik the mechanic didn't change for years. in contrary it should be easier as proficiency is also easier now so people could get that 3 counters/turn and higher counter chance sooner than before.

Of course he could do Imperil+PA+SS on his longsword

Ehm, now i am no longer sure we actually talk about the same thing. With PA i mean the penetrated armor debuff, only granted by rapier and estocs. And i have to admit in this context i have no idea what you even could mean with SS. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Is it possible we actually did talk past each other? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Ehm, now i am no longer sure we actually talk about the same thing. With PA i mean the penetrated armor debuff, only granted by rapier and estocs. And i have to admit in this context i have no idea what you even could mean with SS. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Is it possible we actually did talk past each other? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

People using non-piercing based 2h-weapon could apply 5(?) turns of 3 stack Penetrated Armor using a skill (Rendering Blow) which cost 50 Overcharge.
SS means Spirit Stance.

I'm talking in the context that he is using Longsword - not Rapier - applying PA using rendering blow and imperil to kill SGs.

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Jan 25 2019, 17:40

As a newbie, I was 2H and shade armor until ~250 because shade armor at that level was relatively cheap for the stats/damage. I didn't bother with SG arenas past the initial reward clear because they take a particularly long time compared to the non-SG arenas.

Just like Grindfest, you won't necessarily need to complete those parts of HV unless you REALLY want to. I get down to 80 stamina just by doing the low-level arenas and the ones that lead up to 200.

Oh, there is a 2H skill that does inflict PA? Well, look at that. I didnt even know about that. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yep, there's one that deals a good (~300% ?) damage to 5 targets in a cluster, which gives PA debuff for 5 turns on all of them.

The other stuns anything with PA debuff, a bit less (?) damage that also hit 5 in a cluster.

Both of them cost 50 OC, which imo is the best use of OC for 2H. Spirit burns out too quick for relatively little juice, especially if you have to use items in between.

Especially later round, OC skill + 1-2 attack can wipe off 5 enemies easily. It's bread-and-butter for me for arena clear, decently fast now that I found the alt. site without the gigantic ping overhead.

Only downside is I'm missing too much, and if I can't kill fast enough, things gets ugly fast. Kill so you don't have to heal I guess.

Well at least now the instead does make sense to me.