[X] My Assistant

well.. uhhh...

It's not my fault, you edited your post to add the bold part after I pressed the quote button. That part wasn't there when I read your post the first time. So...

This post has been edited by Xythy: Jan 10 2019, 20:28

I would not reccomend dark. Wind or elec is better and easier to get going. Because of the proficiency.

I would recommend cold.
People are going frenzy for wind and elec nowadays. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
Cold is far cheaper. I think it is underrated.

I would recommend cold.
People are going frenzy for wind and elec nowadays. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Yep, I think the same. Charged clothes for wind and elec literally can cost an eye and the half of the other.

Cold is far cheaper. I think it is underrated.

But that's more true in the case of Fire. Maybe being a pyromaniac it's uncool...

Maybe being a pyromaniac it's uncool...

When you allready had gripped on to a hot soldering iron, you wouldnt say maybe. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

and if you still insisting to integrate that discount to the calculation, you should put that on the base cost of HS

HS base cost: 469
HS expected cost are decreased by it's natural chance of getting channeling: 469-111.9 = 357.1

100% channeled HS bonus used (+50%)
IA5 ( lose ~64.58MP / battle ) + 58.21 = ~ lose 6.37 MP / battle

I remembered that Fudo at one point did attempt to integrate his Heartseeker channeling itself bonus more formally. So I went back to find his formulas and found the mistakes. It's a better approach than just adding 111.9 MP/battle purely favoring the usage of IA but it's still wrong.

I think he made two separate logical errors. First, I don't think the correct idea is to adjust the base cost of Heartseeker, the concept of HS expected cost should not apply here. Second, his formula to calculate the HS expected cost is wrong, it needs multiplications and divisions as part of it, not just a straight subtraction.

His current formula allows the Heartseeker expected cost become zero or a negative number, if the Channeling bonus duration is sufficiently long.

Maybe being a pyromaniac it's uncool...

You pretty much nailed it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Maybe if you calculate the expected base cost of Heartseeker very carefully then Fudo's way could work. But a better HS expected cost formula is needed, and even then there is a problem.

Even if we assume Fudo's way is correct, his result can only apply for the full channeled bonus used (+50%) section. The other results must be wrong. Because in order to get his 357.1 HS expected cost, he input 111.9 HS savings, which itself arose from the assumption that the used bonus is +50%. That's a broken circular logic.

and if you still insisting to integrate that discount to the calculation, you should put that on the base cost of HS

HS expected cost are decreased by it's natural chance of getting channeling : 469-111.9 (channel bonus used +50%)= 357.1

Base HS bonus (channel bonus used +0%)
IA5 357.1 - 362 + 181 = 176.1 -> 57,408.6 ( ~ lose 64.58MP / battle )

full channeled HS bonus used (+50%)
IA5 ( lose ~64.58MP / battle ) + 58.21 = ~ lose 6.37 MP / battle

Let me try to fix Fudo's method. I propose: HS expected cost = 469 + 469 * (Channel Bonus) * (1 - 47.84%)

Channel Bonus can be as desired, +50% is the example. 47.84% is the agreed calculated chance for Heartseeker to channel itself. The Channel Bonus is already part of this new formula, so it doesn't need to be applied later like before.

Plugging my made-up HS expected cost into Fudo's method gives the same answer I initially proposed. So perhaps I cheated. This HS expected cost formula seems fair to me though. It's a different way of looking at the problem which ultimately gives the same answer in a not obvious way.

I am puzzled why I am drained without Spirit Stance. The Settings menu lists my upkeep at 1.55 MP/round. I have +27 Magic Regen per tick which the wiki formula MP gained per turn = Magic Regen * perk_bonus / 15 says is equivalent to 1.8 MP/turn. Can anyone explain my mistake?

I tested it extensively and concluded the error is in the shown wiki formula for natural regen. My actual MP regen is about 1.38 MP/turn, not 1.8 MP/turn as calculated. I verified that all other things such as IA upkeep seem to work as expected, and rounding error is minor. Infodump follows.

CODE

Level 365, no Spirit Stance

1636 MP, +27 Magic Regen per tick

Protection: 100 MP (210 turns)
Shadow Veil: 134 MP (98 turns)
Spark: 139 turns (124 turns)
Haste: 125 MP (126 turns)
Regen: 281 MP (103 turns)

Protection + Spark = 0.95 MP/round
Protection + Spark + Shadow = 1.77 MP/round
Protection + Spark + Haste = 1.55 MP/round

1636 MP --> 1264 MP --> 984 MP --> 1117 MP
(1117 - 984) / 97 = 1.37 MP/turn
1636 MP --> 1221 MP --> 1265 MP
(1265 - 1221) / 98 = 0.45 MP/turn
1636 MP --> 1273 MP --> 992 MP --> 1163 MP --> 1165 MP
(1165 - 992) / 125 = 1.38 MP/turn
1636 MP --> 1230 MP --> 1285 MP
(1285 - 1230) / 126 = 0.44 MP/turn

Yeah, that katalox staff is a self-drop...

Hmm, if for cold mage, which slot I should get for cotton???
Is it the same as dari mage (cotton robe/pants)???

Yeah, that katalox staff is a self-drop...

Hmm, if for cold mage, which slot I should get for cotton???
Is it the same as dari mage (cotton robe/pants)???

For cold you use shoes OR gloves.

For cold you use shoes OR gloves.

Why for cold? Shouldnt it be all the same no matter what element? I mean i can see that i could be different for holy or dark. But i cant see there be a reason why fire or elec would be different. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Maybe because I ask for cold??? lol
Though I assume its the same for every elementalist, right???

right???

Well, that is what i am curious about. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Why for cold? Shouldnt it be all the same no matter what element?

Maybe because I ask for cold??? lol

This^

So no difference to fire, elec, wind in that regard?

So no difference to fire, elec, wind in that regard?

There is no difference regarding those 4 styles in this particular matter, all of them uses shoes or gloves as the cotton piece (priority for shoes).

I tested it extensively and concluded the error is in the shown wiki formula for natural regen. My actual MP regen is about 1.38 MP/turn, not 1.8 MP/turn as calculated. I verified that all other things such as IA upkeep seem to work as expected, and rounding error is minor.

Idk how much the regen perk gives you in your calculations, but I remember reading a while back that it's basically worthless because it only doubles base regen, without accounting for star bonus or whatever else can enhance it.

There is no difference regarding those 4 styles in this particular matter, all of them uses shoes or gloves as the cotton piece (priority for shoes).

another question...
do I need charged prefix if I only plan to do PFUDOR arena???
just plain element prefixes will suffice for that???

another question...
do I need charged prefix if I only plan to do PFUDOR arena???
just plain element prefixes will suffice for that???

I used to play PF arenas with plain build and it is sufficient.

On the Advanced Advice page on the wiki, it recommends (for mages) to keep DEX at 0.2 times your level, and END at 0.9 times your level. Is this correct?
Aren't the parry chance from DEX, and especially the mitigation and HP from END worth it?

You have almost no Phy Mitigation when playing Mage, but much more Agility. Not getting hit at all is the winning play.

This post has been edited by RibbonsCan: Jan 11 2019, 05:31