[X] My Assistant

^ the line in wiki refers to melee in general and was written long ago, when there were more lower level players and less 1h meta talk on the forum. Ethereal is useful for lower levels, due to providing void damage without having to IW10 it, I don't know how many people use voidseeker on lower levels, I just didn't know about it.

But when you read something is overrated, it doesn't mean it's any worse, it just provides almost no benefit for having steep price increase. If there are no good alternatives or you don't care about the price, by any means use it.

saying that HS channeling also saves mana for your method is a fallacy, as the main point for your method is getting channeling for HS itself. and if you still insisting to integrate that discount to the calculation, you should put that on the base cost of HS

nope even without spamming imperil, it's still there, 26k turn, ~500/cast (~35% HS bonus), 131 channeling wasted

Hmm, I thought about it some more, but I still think my calculation for Heartseeker channeling itself is correct, and your logic and new calculation is the fallacy. Whatever, let's just set this disagreement aside for now.

I agree and can understand that even without spamming Imperil, the wasted Heartseeker is still there. Although, notice that you did reduce the wastage a little. And notice that we all use different strategies on when to recast Heartseeker. You, me, and Gresnik choose different duration thresholds at which to recast, and hoard/spend our channeling gems differently. Whose method is best? It's hard to say for sure.

So today I thought of something new. There may be a fallacy in the following logic that we previously agreed on: I only utilize 20% of the extra turns from channeled Heartseeker (+10% of base Heartseeker) --> I wasted 80% of the extra turns from channeled Heartseeker (40% of base Heartseeker)

The error in logic is the --> symbol. The first condition, which you experience, does NOT imply the second condition. I will try to explain but it's hard to understand, maybe you'll disagree with me and that's okay.

Imagine that Tenboro got mad at you, and punished you so your base Heartseeker duration became 300. Or 200, or whatever. Does this mean you'll just let Heartseeker run out? No, you will adjust and recast Heartseeker earlier as necessary. I can't say exactly when, but you probably won't recast at the very end of the duration either. Maybe you would on average recast Heartseeker at +10% of the new base duration.

Next imagine that Tenboro loves you, and increased your Heartseeker duration to 1000 turns, or infinite. Would you still recast Heartseeker after ~474 turns? No, you should use your gift. I can't be sure when you'd recast, but maybe after 900~1100 turns.

The point is that it doesn't matter much that you only utilize +10% extra turns from channeled Heartseeker. The base length of your Heartseeker governs your play, and that's an unrelated number. If the base length of your Heartseeker is changed by Tenboro, you should adjust and recast Heartseeker accordingly. And when the length of your Heartseeker is increased by 50% from successful channeling, for that instance it's the same as if Tenboro gave you 50% more Heartseeker duration.

I'm suggesting that even you may benefit from +50% Heartseeker duration and get almost +50% mana savings, even if it doesn't look that way. And it doesn't matter much if you play like yourself, or me, or Greshnik, as long as we stay consistent to our recasting and management strategy.

Yeah, and besides that ethereal isnt good, it can also just fuck you up with the IW. *sigh* Let us be honest, in the end you will be happy with whatever you get after your 70th or 80 reforge just to get B5+F4. So going for a specific element and the perfect IW. Lets just say this could take you a while.

b5+f4 it's difficult already. If you want to add on top of it the elemental strike be prepared to spend a lot of credits. In your place I would just pray for cold, dark or holy strike but at the same time I'll wouldn't reforge in case I didn't get any of those. Specially if that is not your endgame rapier.

Oh! You can also use the trick of forging the rapier first and then leave it at iw9 then use two infusions. Ethereal weapons can be a headache... But well, that's my personal opinion.

Edit: ninja'd (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Thanks for your Respond!

I using Fire Strike now.
Fight with Legendaries cost so many time,so i want use Dark or Holy in finally weapon.

I dont know cold is for?
So Ethereal weapon is not must have?
(So many advice say it is best,that is why i using it...)
Sorry,i am noob... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

This post has been edited by kikikaki: Jan 9 2019, 09:36

I didn't study the Legendary Shocking Rapier ultra carefully, but from what I checked, I believe it's worth 1m. The IW is good, not great, but it's "free" anyway. It's worth 1m at that low level even if having no IW, so he is not asking you to pay for the IW. I would buy it if I were NoliCAIKS because it matches his level and he can use it without soulfuse and resell it later.

My other point, I'm not one of the people who hypes up 1H even though I currently use it. 1H shines around level 200~250~350 but DW is very good below level 200, and DW also starts becoming good again above level 300~350. There are a number of strong DW players around.

Which one is best for my Elemental Strike, i have Ethereal Rapier.
If i dont have that Elemental Strike,should i reforge until have it?
(include b5+f4,that mean cost so many Credits )
I only play Arena.

The basic rule is, try not to spend too much more on IW than you spent to buy the rapier itself. If it's the 20k magnificent ethereal rapier you bought from my shop, you should only give it a cheap IW and accept some imperfection.

Usually it is not worth it to reforge for best element on an ethereal rapier, even an amazing legendary one. The credits cost is too high. However, on the best magnificent ethereal rapier, it is worth it to reforge for best element. Because there is a trick to reforge the final element on a magnificent ethereal weapon for cheap (salvage it and buy back from bazaar). This trick only works well on magnificent. It doesn't help much on legendary, and only wastes money on peerless.

Specially if that is not your endgame rapier.

Sir, such a thing doesn't exist.

Hmm, I thought about it some more, but I still think my calculation for Heartseeker channeling itself is correct, and your logic and new calculation is the fallacy. Whatever, let's just set this disagreement aside for now.

then by all means point out where the fallacy is.
as I already point out yours is wrong as you put the number on the wrong side of calculation. the HS cost (which then got discounted) never been a regard on calculating what you lost on the losing side, while it's the main bonus from your winning side.
before you say it should be regarded on the losing side, let me reiterate, "you don't have to do the lottery to buy the goods at it's discounted price"
and no, we can't set this disagreement aside, as this encompass the main core of the discussion and you insist to put this on the calculation.
you can't just deny it when the outcome doesn't like your expectation.

I agree and can understand that even without spamming Imperil, the wasted Heartseeker is still there. Although, notice that you did reduce the wastage a little. And notice that we all use different strategies on when to recast Heartseeker. You, me, and Gresnik choose different duration thresholds at which to recast, and hoard/spend our channeling gems differently. Whose method is best? It's hard to say for sure.

no, in this case the best method already have it's measurement, which is the one that lower HS mana consumption from utilizing channeling.
your method entire point is "chasing channeling at the expense of IA bonuses to lower HS mana consumption". that is your method foundation, you can't say no on this.
so it's not "hard to say for sure", the answer to that is easy, the best method is the one that gives channeling in a way that it lower or even diminish the need of mana to cast heartseeker.
in this regard while none might be the best, but clearly between mine, greshnik or your playstyle, yours is on the losing end.

So today I thought of something new. There may be a fallacy in the following logic that we previously agreed on: I only utilize 20% of the extra turns from channeled Heartseeker (+10% of base Heartseeker) --> I wasted 80% of the extra turns from channeled Heartseeker (40% of base Heartseeker)

The error in logic is the --> symbol. The first condition, which you experience, does NOT imply the second condition. I will try to explain but it's hard to understand, maybe you'll disagree with me and that's okay.

that's not something new, you just trying to add what bonus not being used as part of the bonus again.
it's hard to understand for you because your mind saying to yourself that it's wrong but you refuse to acknowledge it.

Imagine that Tenboro got mad at you, and punished you so your base Heartseeker duration became 300. Or 200, or whatever. Does this mean you'll just let Heartseeker run out? No, you will adjust and recast Heartseeker earlier as necessary. I can't say exactly when, but you probably won't recast at the very end of the duration either. Maybe you would on average recast Heartseeker at +10% of the new base duration.

Next imagine that Tenboro loves you, and increased your Heartseeker duration to 1000 turns, or infinite. Would you still recast Heartseeker after ~474 turns? No, you should use your gift. I can't be sure when you'd recast, but maybe after 900~1100 turns.

You're going if this if that, but the fact is the current HS base duration is generally enough for naturally emerging channeling to come out before it runs out. it's your playstyle that fail yourself.

The point is that it doesn't matter much that you only utilize +10% extra turns from channeled Heartseeker. The base length of your Heartseeker governs your play, and that's an unrelated number. If the base length of your Heartseeker is changed by Tenboro, you should adjust and recast Heartseeker accordingly. And when the length of your Heartseeker is increased by 50% from successful channeling, for that instance it's the same as if Tenboro gave you 50% more Heartseeker duration.

I'm suggesting that even you may benefit from +50% Heartseeker duration and get almost +50% mana savings, even if it doesn't look that way. And it doesn't matter much if you play like yourself, or me, or Greshnik, as long as we stay consistent to our recasting and management strategy.

yeah, it's all unrelated, like how unrelated the bonus actually is if I use all channeling (which some ended up used for absorb) to cast heartseeker, as the duration would shrink to merely ~150 turn anyway.

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Jan 9 2019, 10:24

hello! I'm newbie. for me, it's hard to do arena, so I've searched wiki and knew there're many people give away there items for free! I found some users do free Item world and free giveaways, but it's hard for me to use these fine things. I don't know anything! even using forum is first time, ha ha.

my question :
1. what is Free Item World? (In my knowledge, Item World is just kind of battle.)

2. how can I use free shop? just requesting item is okay?(ex. I'm newbie. if you give some weapon fits for me, that would be pleasure. thank you.)

thank you for opening such a good thread for all the newbies, and if you reply my question, that would be glad for me. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

1. what is Free Item World? (In my knowledge, Item World is just kind of battle.)

So doing Item World (IW) on an item gives that item potency experience which in turn will get you new "improvements" on that item (equipment). Since it is quite hard for beginners to do IW as the difficulty increases as you progress, there are kind people who do IW run for us. You don't need to worry about this right now as you will level up fast and keep replacing your old gears. And you will mostly just need an IW run on your weapon to get void strikes. You can read more about this on the Wiki I believe.

2. how can I use free shop? just requesting item is okay?(ex. I'm newbie. if you give some weapon fits for me, that would be pleasure. thank you.)

Yes, it is that easy. But I remember you need at least 5 posts to be qualified, and there are some rules to follow so be sure to read through it before requesting.




Correct me if I am wrong (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

then by all means point out where the fallacy is.
as I already point out yours is wrong as you put the number on the wrong side of calculation. the HS cost (which then got discounted) never been a regard on calculating what you lost on the losing side, while it's the main bonus from your winning side.
before you say it should be regarded on the losing side, let me reiterate, "you don't have to do the lottery to buy the goods at it's discounted price"
and no, we can't set this disagreement aside, as this encompass the main core of the discussion and you insist to put this on the calculation.
you can't just deny it when the outcome doesn't like your expectation.

Yeah, didn't read the initial post in detail because I immediately saw the double-counting which makes the subsequent calculation irrelevant.

Yeah, didn't read the initial post in detail because I immediately saw the double-counting which makes the subsequent calculation irrelevant.

The double counting from my first post was pointed by BWS and I discard it.
Then if BWS going to say that any extra HS duration from channeling are "mana saving" then I point that that means casting heartseeker and recast it right after getting any channeling (if there's any) also have it's own "mana saving" mechanism (I'll call it "natural saving").
then I compare that to any bonus he obtained from his method - which I think he didn't like and never talk about it anymore.
and then he try to use that "natural saving" to decrease the loss from whenever he would lose if he failed to obtain any channeling after wasting 3 cast, which shouldn't happen as the lose are merely from the difference between IA or not IA.
so I point that if the spell have it's "natural saving" and he's going to insist on using that, then it should go to decrease the amount he saves instead as what saving he made using his method is HS mana cost.
and it seems he didn't like it again and try to toss that aside.

Thanks for your Respond!

I using Fire Strike now.
Fight with Legendaries cost so many time,so i want use Dark or Holy in finally weapon.

I dont know cold is for?
So Ethereal weapon is not must have?
(So many advice say it is best,that is why i using it...)
Sorry,i am noob... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

Ethereal rapiers are not that bad. It's just some 1h players have too much obsession. ppl better than elementals. Anyway just don't pick fiery, due to high-level monster distribution.

Some perks and training that people say they don't regret buying, while most of them never paying off the initial expense. I'd like why they've never been serious about that.

Personal choices so I still value ethereal rapiers decent.
The very little burden won't make significant difference. Ethereal weapons are supposed to be left at IW9 instead of IW10, and you use a few holy/dark infusions while clearing SG runs.

Things they say are true, not most are not worth excessive concentration. You get what you want. One day you will go wind/elec, like most of the new players do. Who gets a fk about rapiers.

maybe because wiki said it??? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

fixed

Sir, such a thing doesn't exist.

Unless some patch changes it Peerless dark/holy rapier of slaughter is an endgame rapier. You also should notice word "your" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

endgame rapier.

"a rapier one will propably use without actual strong need and or wish to replace it"
And that is how uncle does define the therm endgame rapier. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

This post has been edited by Uncle Stu: Jan 9 2019, 16:57

I didn't study the Legendary Shocking Rapier ultra carefully, but from what I checked, I believe it's worth 1m. The IW is good, not great, but it's "free" anyway. It's worth 1m at that low level even if having no IW, so he is not asking you to pay for the IW. I would buy it if I were NoliCAIKS because it matches his level and he can use it without soulfuse and resell it later.

My other point, I'm not one of the people who hypes up 1H even though I currently use it. 1H shines around level 200~250~350 but DW is very good below level 200, and DW also starts becoming good again above level 300~350. There are a number of strong DW players around.
The basic rule is, try not to spend too much more on IW than you spent to buy the rapier itself. If it's the 20k magnificent ethereal rapier you bought from my shop, you should only give it a cheap IW and accept some imperfection.

Usually it is not worth it to reforge for best element on an ethereal rapier, even an amazing legendary one. The credits cost is too high. However, on the best magnificent ethereal rapier, it is worth it to reforge for best element. Because there is a trick to reforge the final element on a magnificent ethereal weapon for cheap (salvage it and buy back from bazaar). This trick only works well on magnificent. It doesn't help much on legendary, and only wastes money on peerless.

I think when it comes to the weapons I get, I'd rather get a relatively cheap weapon that's not as good, level up with it, and then buy a cheaper legendary at a higher level (cheaper since the low level ones are more rare). That way, I can afford an even better endgame rapier because it'll be cheaper. That said, I do want to be able to level up fast with it, so my budget is about 200-300k for the rapier and I'm trying to get one from the auction. But 1m is just too much and I'd rather save it for my actual endgame weapon, especially since I plan on soulfusing this one, meaning I won't be able to resell it when that time comes; soulfusing a 1m weapon just seems like a waste, not to mention I'd need more soul fragments because it's legendary.

Also, I'm glad to hear DW becomes good again. I gave 1H a try, and it's certainly better right now (able to do PFUDOR with the same ease I did IWBTH with DW), but I just really like the concept of very high agility and evasion. It's just kind of... cool, you know?
That's also why I don't want a non-ethereal weapon, because of the burden on it. Preferably I'd get a weapon that would work for both 1H and DW, so I can switch whenever I feel like it. I'd definitely like to try DW again once I'm level 350, just to see if it gets better than 1H at that point, since that's my preferred playstyle; but right now 1H is just far too strong.

Also, I'm just wondering; why does it matter what kind of elemental strike weapons have?

I'm not joking when I say that there's no such a thing as an endgame rapier.
Why ? Because by the time one reaches the said endgame, one switched to mage playstyle a long while before.
So at best, there are expensive rapiers that are useless to you by the time you can afford that kind of lunacy.

Friendly reminder, not directed at someone in particular, that there is not one right way to play HentaiVerse. I'm worried that recent discussions can give new players the impression that they must play it a certain way.

All styles are viable. Playing 2H is fine, just as well as playing 1h or holy mage is. Only if you are looking for the optimum for speed, then you need to really look into the details. But almost no one has unlimited credits, so the optimum isn't relevant for starting players. For me, the most fun way has been and still is to try to find my own optimum speed within my budget.

That's my 2 cents. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

That's also why I don't want a non-ethereal weapon, because of the burden on it. Preferably I'd get a weapon that would work for both 1H and DW, so I can switch whenever I feel like it.

Also, I'm just wondering; why does it matter what kind of elemental strike weapons have?

The default set for DW is main-hand ethereal club of slaughter+offhand rapier of balance. So there is no way your rapier of slaughter work for both set.
Holy and dark are stronger than the others when against SGs.

Others are not too much difference, but fiery considered the worst, cold the best among elementals. That's because types of monsters created are not evenly distributed. For example, more giants and dragonkins created meaning cold, wind, elec are better against them. Fiery is only good against undead, which is the least type of monsters players would like create. Also the most preferred shield for 1h is fire shield, whose status effect reduces cold mitigation. So cold the best among these.

This post has been edited by -vincento-: Jan 9 2019, 18:30

I didn't study the Legendary Shocking Rapier ultra carefully, but from what I checked, I believe it's worth 1m. The IW is good, not great, but it's "free" anyway. It's worth 1m at that low level even if having no IW, so he is not asking you to pay for the IW. I would buy it if I were NoliCAIKS because it matches his level and he can use it without soulfuse and resell it later.

My other point, I'm not one of the people who hypes up 1H even though I currently use it. 1H shines around level 200~250~350 but DW is very good below level 200, and DW also starts becoming good again above level 300~350. There are a number of strong DW players around.
The basic rule is, try not to spend too much more on IW than you spent to buy the rapier itself. If it's the 20k magnificent ethereal rapier you bought from my shop, you should only give it a cheap IW and accept some imperfection.

Usually it is not worth it to reforge for best element on an ethereal rapier, even an amazing legendary one. The credits cost is too high. However, on the best magnificent ethereal rapier, it is worth it to reforge for best element. Because there is a trick to reforge the final element on a magnificent ethereal weapon for cheap (salvage it and buy back from bazaar). This trick only works well on magnificent. It doesn't help much on legendary, and only wastes money on peerless.

Amazing trick!
I will try it.

Ethereal rapiers are not that bad. It's just some 1h players have too much obsession. ppl better than elementals. Anyway just don't pick fiery, due to high-level monster distribution.

Some perks and training that people say they don't regret buying, while most of them never paying off the initial expense. I'd like why they've never been serious about that.

Personal choices so I still value ethereal rapiers decent.
The very little burden won't make significant difference. Ethereal weapons are supposed to be left at IW9 instead of IW10, and you use a few holy/dark infusions while clearing SG runs.

Things they say are true, not most are not worth excessive concentration. You get what you want. One day you will go wind/elec, like most of the new players do. Who gets a fk about rapiers.

I want to know how count Elemental Strike damage.
If only one(Void Strike),Void Strike is 100% damage.

But if i have two or three(Void Strike+Dark Strike+Holy Strike ),
Void Strike can do how much %damage?
And Dark?Holy?how much %damage?


Thanks!

The default set for DW is main-hand ethereal club of slaughter+offhand rapier of balance. So there is no way your rapier of slaughter work for both set.

I disagree. When I was doing DW I was playing with a superior rapier of the nimble in the main-hand (although I think "of slaughter" would be fine too, just more DPS but less defense) and an ethereal wakizashi in the nimble for the off-hand for extra parry chance, and my DPS was pretty decent despite my main hand weapon being bad. Off-hand weapons get a 50% bonus for parry chance, which means the bonus can get extremely high.

Just for fun, I decided to calculate approximately just how good DW's damage avoidance can get, using lololo16's Legendary Savage Shadowdancer armour and this ridiculous wakizahshi I found in an old thread (74.595% chance to parry from that weapon alone, thanks to the 50% bonus for off-hand weapons).
Also, this rapier with level 40 parry upgrade would be 45.43% chance to parry.

Theoretical stat estimates, not sure if accurate: 1000 dexterity (40% parry), 1000 agility (40% evade). Also 25% evade from Shadow Veil.
1-(1-0.4543)*(1-0.4973*1.5)*(1-.4) = 91.6818949% chance to parry.
1-(1-.089)*(1-.1078)*(1-.0764)*(1-.1004)*(1-.0722)*(1-.4)*(1-.25) = 71.804431937% chance to evade.
Combined, the chance to avoid damage is: 97.654663015%.

And then, there's the attack speed bonuses as well, but I'm not sure about the formula to combine them.
That said, the attack speed bonuses are:
10% from agility bonus, 15% from 600 light armour proficiency, 22.18% from that peerless wakizashi, and 50% (action speed) from haste.

It definitely seems quite promising, although then again that is some pretty insane gear.

As for the damage numbers, I don't think it's an issue; off-hand strikes only deal 50% of the main-hand damage, so having 90% off-hand strike chance (reached with 30% accuracy on the off-hand weapon) instead of 100% (50%+ accuracy) is only a 3.33% DPS loss (1-1.45/1.5 = 0.033...). Furthermore, a large portion of the attack damage will come from the strength bonus, dexterity bonus, and shade armour, meaning that losing some damage from having nimble on the main-hand weapon instead of slaughter isn't as bad as it seems (although I think slaughter can work as well, but it sacrifices some defense).

although I think slaughter can work as well, but it sacrifices some defense.

It's your choice to play as what you want.

I'll just tell that defense is bullshit for advanced players. Advanced players always seek for more damage instead of survivability because they already have enough.

Club stuns monsters, which means monsters won't be able to parry your attacks. DW doesn't have innate overwhelming strikes as 1h does, so PFD monsters parry a lot. Parry creates counter-attack for 1h, but creates nothing beneficial for DW.
Club+Rapier gives you the most AD. What you saying, that a large portion of AD comes from armors is relatively wrong. Light Armors offer much less AD than heavy armors do. Actually very little. So AD from weapons is more important than you ever imagine.

Nimble is trash. Not a single advanced DW player uses them. Balance as offhand gives your a lot more critical chance, which is very op for DW and Niten
Agile is trash. Action speed is meaningless when it comes to Arenas. You don't even need so much speed to conquer PFD Arena. Speed only means that you get hit less every turn, doesn't meaning more damage.

It's not recommended to play other melee styles before lv350 because 1h is just so strong, fast, cheap, and secured compared to other styles before lv350. 1h gains survivability and offense simultaneously. For other styles before lv350, you just have to sacrifice one for another.