QUOTE(Benny-boy @ Dec 31 2018, 21:11)
They're rouphly the same, so it depends on your stats (after certain thresholds you get lesser effects, for example at 60% total block you get ~60% effective block, but at 70% you get around ~62%)
QUOTE(Izumi @ Jan 1 2019, 04:41)
whaaat where i can get more of those infos, does mitigation work in same way?
QUOTE(Nicosai @ Jan 1 2019, 07:37)
Long answer:
Check the wiki.Short answer: Almost all stats (except damage) work like this. Basically it boils down to: The higher your stat, the lower the effect of increasing it further.
QUOTE(magiclamp @ Jan 1 2019, 08:30)
Sorry, could you explain a bit more? For example, I still can't see the cap on block/evade is in the wiki. Diminishing returns due to multiplicative bonuses is NOT the same as the cap Benny-boy mentioned.
I guess he meant that, it's just either he misunderstand it, express it in a confusing way, or maybe some mix-up between leg tier block percentage ranges and actual block chance percentage from equip - since I doubt there's any actual 70% block chance shield out there and he compare 60% and 70%.
let's put a little math here.
I'm using these number as a constant variable for the rest of this post, these are my stats.
Level : 466
Effective 1h-prof : 470
1-hand block from ability : 11.7% ( 0.25 * 47 should be 11.75 but the game shows that number when I have no shield equipped )
I have a shield with 64.01% block chance, this for a record is a soulfused fully forged peerless 51.91% base block.
Equipping it without the abilities, I'm on 64% block chance (once again I guess the game round it down)
Equipping the shield and the abilities, then I'm on 68.2 % that's equal to the said formula on the wiki : 1 - (1-0.64)*(1-0.117) = 68.212%
Equipping another shield with 46.29% block chance (that's my other shield, unforged 66% on Leg ranges), put me on 52.6%
now let's look at benny-boy's number.
a 60% block shield for me would give a 1-(1-0.60)*(1-0.117) = 64.68% block
a 70% block shield for me would give a 1-(1-0.70)*(1-0.117) = 73.61% block
but, if we use ranges 60% and 70% will give a substantially different number, assume it's a Leg Force Shield,
a 60% block range is 37.364% base block, level scaled to 46.07% actual equipment block chance
-> 1-(1-0.4607)*(1-0.117) = 52.38% block
a 70% block range is 37.653% base block, level scaled to 46.42% actual equipment block chance
-> 1-(1-0.4642)*(1-0.117) = 52.69% block
the difference feel so little
unless... we're going to talk that effective block = actual blocked attack on battle, which would complicate things, but I guess not as he point to the wiki's stat page.
then how about the questioned Greshnik's shield? since those are not soulfused then I won't level scale them and just use the shown block chance as is. I'll calculate how much block I have with them.
The SDE one is 38% range block, 36.74% base, forged to 47.16% base, actual equipment block is 55.01%
-> 1-(1-0.5501)*(1-0.117) = 60.27% block
The SEA one is 81% range block, 37.97% base, unforged, actual equipment block is 44.34%
-> 1-(1-0.4434)*(1-0.117) = 50.85% block
but how about if we forge it to the equal forge level to the SDE one? (I would simply check the multiplier for the SDE base->forge then multiply the SEA one with it, I know this is a lazy -and possibly wrong- way, but well)
(47.16/36.74) * 37.97 = 48.74, level scaled to 335 -> 56.9% equipment block
-> 1-(1-0.5690)*(1-0.117) = 61.94% block
so yeah, 38% vs 81% range block is a 'mere' 1.67% increase in actual block shown on status page.
btw, since I still have a few minutes of spare time, how about max block on lvl 500?
0.25 * 60 = 15%
following my shield 51.91% base, level scaled to 500 -> 64.89%
1-(1-0.6489)*(1-0.15) = 70.15%
o hai, my 68.2% is 1.95% off...
QUOTE(Uncle Stu @ Dec 31 2018, 21:34)
Mine is 69.2%, 70.7%. Yeah, i know. But i am in the mood to show of a bit.
and I'm just 1% under Uncle stu's, and guess what, my 34 level difference which in actuality more EXP difference than any EXP I ever earned playing this far, translated to a number lower than the difference from those greshnick's shield would give.
so yeah, I think I'll stand with the first half of this statement :
QUOTE(Uncle Stu @ Dec 31 2018, 20:29)
From 38 to 81 is imo just too much improvement not to use the higher block one, even when it means to switch SDA for SDE.
but how about the SDE vs SEA?
to make a comparison, let's take a look what DEX and AGI gives.
For the agi, it's physical mitigation (not really necessary as yours are high already, right?), evade (lol burden), and attack speed. I believe this stat usefulness for 1h-heavy could be summed on the argument if haste useful or not for 1h-heavy, some would say haste is useless - even against using it, better let monsters attack so you could counter them to dead so you clear stuff faster, I would say that's a one-sided argument, it might be true to some extent (counter speed up things), but action speed is still one of useful stats for defense, even on an already defense bloated 1h-heavy. Particularly on heavier fight like
grindfest and for people who are not bloated enough with defense, faster attack speed might also speed up things by decreasing your need to cure.
So my take on the agi is, it's useful in some way, but you could do without it, and there's no need to become allergic to it as 1h-heavy.
Now the problem is dex. As it's not only increase your attack, it would also increase your parry - both are some of the core stats for 1h fighting style.
before I continue, I'll put a little disclaimer, dex indeed also increase your counter attack chance, but you should've maxed it somewhere near lvl 300... so I won't comment on that.
Yesterday greshnik
show how much he would lose changing from the SDE to SEA 2% parry chance and 40 ADB, I guess the adb is minimal, but how about the parry.
this is one of reason I didn't answer yesterday, if it's SDE vs SDA, I would instantly say use the one with higher block as in my opinion the END and AGI actually gives benefit which both are not an absolute vital.
The 2% parry lost however is another question, while it's true that parry only useful for physical attack as stated by uncle stu, the majority of attack that would come is also a physical attack, and we're talking about 95% of attack and 85% of damage for my case - I believe it's roughly the same for everyone as those come from multiple grindfest run.
So.. I guess it's down to between 1.x% block and 2% parry... (I'll use my assumed block and greshnik actual parry as I'm run out of time to calculate another parry)
60.27% block + 49.3% parry is 20.14311% chance of enemy physical attack hit (barring another variable)
61.94% block + 47.3% parry is 20.05762% chance of enemy physical attack hit
0.08549%, miniscule difference with the new one better...
so... I think I'll go with what Benny-boy said, the old one is simply more convenient to use as you don't have to do anything, except sell the new one if you wish and use the money to forge your old one maybe. else Uncle stu's method is good to, salvage the old one, use them to forge the new one and while you're at it forge it to your highest possible, this in reality is what I do most of the time with my equip, and what I might do if I'm in your position (I would absolutely do this if only the shield is SDA instead of SEA tho), non SDE won't sell much anyway - but I guess to each person if the credits is worth the hassle or not.
This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Jan 1 2019, 13:48
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