[X] My Assistant

Good idea, to my knowledge no one has mathematically calculated such things. It wouldn't be easy and would likely require some level of brute forcing by breaking down into cases as opposed to a single elegant formula. We should calculate for other things as well such as Butcher 5 + Fatality 4, etc.

Go do it yourselves, no offense.

I know very well how to determine the exact formula, but it is really too complicated and there is actually a few cases where what is the "optimal" choice to make is not easy to find out.
The easier way is to just benchmark it.
All this for something ke know roughly with just experience: somewhere around 20-30. Slightly less for armors that have an elemental prefix.

In a general way, it'd be nice if players started doing things by themselves instead of always asking others. Just saying.

I think it would be easier if you just looked through the easily accessible IW logs and filtered for 4/5 IWs. They provide a lot of test cases.

I did that a while back and although I wasn't too concerned with number of shards used, I came up with some rough averages for how much these Item Worlds cost, including both the shard price and credit loss (or service cost) for doing the runs.

But5 + Fat4 or But4 + Fat5 ≈ 1.3 million
Jug5 + Any5 ≈ 1.3 million
Staff chosen 5+4 or 4+5 ≈ 1.9 million

There are plenty of test cases but I didn't estimate the more typical Jug5 + Any. Extrapolating from the above it should be below 600k.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
the formula is literally on the link that you quote.

I read that and try to calculate by formulas:

FinallyInBattleCastTime = EffectiveCastTime / TotalCastSpeed

EffectiveCastTime = OriginalCastTime * ( 1 - 0.25 * CastSpeedProfFactor )
CastSpeedProfFactor = ( EffectiveProficiency - ReqProf ) / ( CapProf - ReqProf )
TotalCastSpeed = ( 1+ CastSpeedBonusOnStatistics ) * ( 1 + Haste )

CastSpeedProfFactor between 0 to 1.

----------------------------
for Divine T1 "Smite":
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Action_Speed
OriginalCastTime = 1.4

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Spells#Offensive_Spells
ReqProf = 0
CapProf = 500

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Spells#Supportive
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Abilities#Supportive
Haste = 50%


and on my Statistics:
// 20.1% cast speed bonus
CastSpeedBonusOnStatistics = 20.1%
// Effective Proficiency Divine 398
EffectiveProficiency = 398
----------------------------


CastSpeedProfFactor = ( 398 - 0 ) / ( 500 - 0 ) = 0.796
TotalCastSpeed = ( 1+ 20.1% ) * ( 1 + 50% ) = 1.8015
EffectiveCastTime = 1.4 * ( 1 - 0.25 * 0.796 ) = 1.1214

FinallyInBattleCastTime = 1.1214 / 1.8015 = 0.62248126561199000832639467110741


******
Test "Smite" in the GF:

Round 2 Start
HPduration= 48
1. Cast Smite
HPduration= 48
2. Cast Smite
HPduration= 47
3. Cast Smite
HPduration= 47
4. Cast Smite
HPduration= 46
5. Cast Smite
HPduration= 45
6. Use Health Potion
HPduration= 45
7. Cast Smite
HPduration= 45
8. Cast Smite
HPduration= 44
9. Cast Smite
HPduration= 44
10. Cast Smite
HPduration= 43
11. Cast Smite
HPduration= 42
12. Cast Smite
HPduration= 42
13. Cast Smite
HPduration= 41
14. Cast Smite
HPduration= 41
15. Cast Smite
HPduration= 40
16. Cast Smite
HPduration= 39
17. Cast Smite
HPduration= 39
18. Cast Smite
HPduration= 38

...flee death

******

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Action_Speed#Tick_.26_Action_Speed
0.622 , it looks like has some residuals? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

if
FinallyInBattleCastTime = 0.622

Round 2 Start
HPduration= 48
1. Cast Smite (time0.622)
HPduration= 48 (47.378)
2. Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.756)
3. Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.134)
4. Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 (45.512)
5. Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.89)
6. Use Health Potion (time0)
HPduration= 45 (44.89)
7. Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.268)
8. Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.646)
9. Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.024)
10. Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 (42.402)
11. Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.78)
12. Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.158)
13. Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.536)
14. Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (39.914)
15. Cast Smite
HPduration= 40 (39.292)
16. Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.67)
17. Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.048)
18. Cast Smite
HPduration= 38 (37.426)

we can see 0.622 seem to be nearly, but a little bit slower than true test result?... (I'm not sure... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) )


and if
FinallyInBattleCastTime = 0.6 (it means cast faster than 0.622)

Round 2 Start
HPduration= 48
1 Cast Smite (time0.6)
HPduration= 48 (47.4)
2 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.8)
3 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.2)
4 Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 (45.6)
5 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (45)
6 Use Health Potion (time0)
HPduration= 45 (45)
7 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.4)
8 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.8)
9 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.2)
10 Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 (42.6)
11 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (42)
12 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.4)
13 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.8)
14 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.2)
15 Cast Smite
HPduration= 40 (39.6)
16 Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (39)
17 Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.4)
18 Cast Smite
HPduration= 38 (37.8)



FinallyInBattleCastTime = 0.615 (faster than 0.622, slower than 0.6)

Round 2 Start
HPduration= 48
1 Cast Smite (time0.615)
HPduration= 48 (47.385)
2 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.77)
3 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.155)
4 Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 (45.54)
5 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.925)
6 Use Health Potion (time0)
HPduration= 45 (44.925)
7 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.31)
8 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.695)
9 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.08)
10 Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 (42.465)
11 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.85)
12 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.235)
13 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.62)
14 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.005)
15 Cast Smite
HPduration= 40 (39.39)
16 Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.775)
17 Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.16)
18 Cast Smite
HPduration= 38 (37.545)



So, I think my understanding maybe has something wrong...? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Or just because of roundup and rounddown somewhere? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Or something have been changed ,so the formulas became out-of-date? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

In a general way, it'd be nice if players started doing things by themselves instead of always asking others. Just saying.

Might have something to do with theere being a thread "Ask the experts", but no "Present stuff you've found out yourself".

<snip>

is the red the only derivation?
I am hald frunk and it's tl;dr.
if yes then you might put the start a bit late, that 48 could be anywhere from 47.01 to 47.99 ( I know it's tighter than that like 47.1~3 if you look at other turn numbers but spare me), unless, you use buff from scroll at the start of the battle that doesn't tick the turn timer from casting a spell, so you'll start from precisely at 0.00
if not, heh, beats me, I don't know.

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Nov 13 2018, 08:24

is the red the only derivation?
I am hald frunk and it's tl;dr.
if yes then you might put the start a bit late, that 48 could be anywhere from 47.01 to 47.99 ( I know it's tighter than that like 47.1~3 if you look at other turn numbers but spare me), unless, you use buff from scroll at the start of the battle that doesn't tick the turn timer from casting a spell, so you'll start from precisely at 0.00
if not, heh, beats me, I don't know.

>>"is the red the only derivation?"
I don't know... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
I can't continue "Cast Smite", the monster will hit me to death (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

and
>>Round 2 Start
I test it in GF round (2/1000), not round (1/1000).
If my understanding is correct,
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Action_Speed
"Tick" will reset each new round? (I'm not sure that...)
The "1. Cast Smite " is my first action in round 2,
and I have Innate Arcana of "Haste". (IA4)
as the wiki, in this test, only the "Smite" action will trigger the "Tick"(cast time).


actually,
after your suggestion, I test again a moment ago,
at this time, I test in round 1.

btw:
if test in round 2 and "Tick" will reset each new round, I will cast "Regen" and "Protection" in round 1.
without them, I will become low HP much easier by monster's hits. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

******
Test "Smite" in the GF:

Round 1 Start
HPduration= none
1 Use Health Draught (time0)
HPduration= 50 ( 50 )
2 Cast Smite (time0.622)
HPduration= 50 ( 49.378 )
3 Cast Smite
HPduration= 49 ( 48.756 )
4 Cast Smite
HPduration= 49 ( 48.134 )
5 Cast Smite
HPduration= 48 ( 47.512 )
6 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 ( 46.89 )
7 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 ( 46.268 )
8 Use Health Potion (time0)
HPduration= 47 ( 46.268 )
9 Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 ( 45.646 )
10 Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 ( 45.024 )
11 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 ( 44.402 )
12 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 ( 43.78 )
13 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 ( 43.158 )
14 Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 ( 42.536 )
15 Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 ( 41.914 )
16 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 ( 41.292 )
17 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 ( 40.67 )
18 flee death

******

The result is almost same with test in round 2. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Unsolved Mystery....... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

This post has been edited by 3534: Nov 13 2018, 12:48

-
"Tick" will reset each new round? (I'm not sure that...)
-

I have a similar question.
That is,
If I use T1 spell to kill the last monster for the round, compared to using T2/T3, would my first action
come faster in the next round?

This post has been edited by qr12345: Nov 13 2018, 15:16

I have a similar question.
That is,
If I use T1 spell to kill the last monster for the round, compared to using T2/T3, would my first action
come faster in the next round?

I think the answer is NOT.

"Smite test in round 2" and "Smite test in round 1", they results look "same" (at HPduration).
So I believe ""Tick" will reset each new round" is true, at less I believe it at this moment... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

And it is noteworthy that，
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Action_Speed
>>Monster Action Speed
>All monsters have an initiative for their first attack of 0.1 to 1 times their base action speed (chosen at random).
That means,
though you become very very very fast (less cast time),
the monsters' first attack still possible faster than your attack.



btw,
I tested the physical attack, and I guessed the formula of physical attack is:

FinallyInBattlePhysicalAttackCastTime = PhysicalAttackCastTime / TotalAttackSpeed
TotalAttackSpeed = (1 + AttackSpeedBonusOnStatistics ) * ( 1 + Haste )

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Action_Speed
>>Base Action Speed
>Physical Attack
PhysicalAttackCastTime = 1

AttackSpeedBonusOnStatistics = see your character statistics, the "attack speed bonus" is.
and mine is 10%

Haste = same as spell, at the wiki of Ability , Spell , or Scroll.

So, my
FinallyInBattlePhysicalAttackCastTime = 1 / ((1 + 0.1 ) * ( 1 + 0.5 )) = 0.60606060606060606060606060606061


physical attack speed is much easier to test than spell, because of the spell's prof effect.
You can also test by yourself. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Once we confirm this, we can do more advanced test base on it.

If you find that I'm wrong, please tell me, thank you so much (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

How much of a difference does elemental strike make when you play 1H?

How much of a difference does elemental strike make when you play 1H?

Well, imo it is important. But in the end i would admit that the right elemental is just sort of optimization and when we would compare two identical weapons the difference would be in the end not as big as the prices in auctions would let us think. Damage and parry would in the end be more important when it comes to decide what weapon to use. Does this answer your question?

Well, imo it is important. But in the end i would admit that the right elemental is just sort of optimization and when we would compare two identical weapons the difference would be in the end not as big as the prices in auctions would let us think. Damage and parry would in the end be more important when it comes to decide what weapon to use. Does this answer your question?

Mostly confirms things, yes, since I only plan to do Arenas, which is Light, Dark, and Cold based. I can at least rule out buying anything with Fire Strike unless the stats are superb.

Mostly confirms things, yes, since I only plan to do Arenas, which is Light, Dark, and Cold based. I can at least rule out buying anything with Fire Strike unless the stats are superb.

It could maybe take some time, but you could get a Fire Rapier with great stats much cheaper as a identical holy one and in the end the saved credits you could spend to upgrade the rapier much faster. Well, i wish you good luck getting a good weapon. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

It could maybe take some time, but you could get a Fire Rapier with great stats much cheaper as a identical holy one and in the end the saved credits you could spend to upgrade the rapier much faster. Well, i wish you good luck getting a good weapon. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Well, it's not too hard to go up from a depreciated Exquishit.

https://hentaiverse.org/equip/17643485/d6f0a2a0e5

It's just that there's so many 'up's that you can choose from.

Also, I accidentally my budget on buying materials when I found I missed a zero on a shield I wanted to buy. Better wait for my trophy income to kick in...

It's just that there's so many 'up's that you can choose from.

Well, at least you still have some room for improvements. There is no chance i will ever improve my rapier ever again. So yeah, i am a bit envy. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Also, I accidentally my budget on buying materials when I found I missed a zero on a shield I wanted to buy. Better wait for my trophy income to kick in...

You accidentally your budget what, the first part of this sentence lacks a verb. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Oh, so it was more expensive as you thought? Well, that can happen. I would just not suggest to count too much on blackjac as your main source of income.

Well, at least you still have some room for improvements. There is no chance i will ever improve my rapier ever again. So yeah, i am a bit envy. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

I know the feeling when you hit a ceiling and start wondering if this time it isn't glass.

You accidentally your budget what, the first part of this sentence lacks a verb. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Oh, so it was more expensive as you thought? Well, that can happen. I would just not suggest to count too much on blackjac as your main source of income.

Yeah, I bought materials to upgrade it. Funny thing is, I probably won't have enough unless I do some arenas, which is a drag with my current equips. You stop playing at 299, thinking that you won't get any exp from Dawn, come back and find you've somehow leveled to 338, and all your proficiencies are 318 without you doing anything, wow what happened?

I know the feeling when you hit a ceiling and start wondering if this time it isn't glass.

Well, that with the glass ceiling has to be a saying, because i dont get it.

You stop playing at 299, thinking that you won't get any exp from Dawn, come back and find you've somehow leveled to 338, and all your proficiencies are 318 without you doing anything, wow what happened?

You get 5% XP for your current level each dawn. So when you get every dawn, you will get a level up every twenty days. Didnt you know that? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

>>"is the red the only derivation?"
I don't know... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
I can't continue "Cast Smite", the monster will hit me to death (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

and

oh, yeah, I might mistakenly thinking that you're saying it's second turn, pardon my drunken self from yesterday.
so... overall it's still following the expected turn from the calculation, right?
if it's only happened once or twice every some interval it might be a small rounding error on the calculation (until at some point after hundreds of repetition it'll shifted entirely lol), to make it sure if the formula correct, try using different proficiency (change your equip), and to get more data try decreasing the difficulty or use 1h-heavy instead (the enemies wouldn't die that easily if you're not using any mage equips - and the problem would end on the MP instead of HP)

oh, yeah, I might mistakenly thinking that you're saying it's second turn, pardon my drunken self from yesterday.
so... overall it's still following the expected turn from the calculation, right?
if it's only happened once or twice every some interval it might be a small rounding error on the calculation (until at some point after hundreds of repetition it'll shifted entirely lol), to make it sure if the formula correct, try using different proficiency (change your equip), and to get more data try decreasing the difficulty or use 1h-heavy instead (the enemies wouldn't die that easily if you're not using any mage equips - and the problem would end on the MP instead of HP)

I agree with you, the result is very close...

1h-heavy is a good idea (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) ,
you reminded me, we can also test it at 1h-mage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

but I only have an elec-mage set, and I'm too lazy to continue testing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
as you said, "almost nobody actually take notice on those effect over all these shenanigans over battle turns vs player action turn",

maybe stop here is a good choice for me. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)


thank you again~ (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)