[X] My Assistant

Last year we asked the question of how Imperil stacks with Penetrated Armor. I finished training Better Imperil to max (Faster Imperil remains at 1 of 3 upgrades) so today I tested a bit against School Girls. From similar tests last year, this time I made sure to consistently have Overwhelming Strikes on for all data sampling.

CODE

1H level 355
overwhelming strikes and spirit stance
8033 attack

8570~12855 void damage  18382~23219 crit
4500~6374 void strike
4234~6438 dark strike

Penetrated Armor

11509~16688 void damage  20788~30401 crit
5827~8560 void strike
5812~8355 dark strike

Penetrated Armor 2

14990~20949 void damage  26422~38491 crit
7224~10746 void strike
7297~10945 dark strike

Penetrated Armor 3

17387~25645 void damage  31796~47105 crit
8694~13040 void strike
8781~13171 dark strike

Imperil + Penetrated 3

18856~27813 void damage  34058~50661 crit
9428~14025 void strike
9523~14284 dark strike

I didn't do many trials so not all the damage range endpoints are exact. But many are, because although damage variance is large it is highly quantized in this game (not many possible values).

Conclusion: Penetrated Armor stacks additively with itself, but surprisingly stacks multiplicatively with Imperil. If I recall, last year we may have tested wrong and said that Imperil does not stack with Penetrated Armor 3. But with full training it's apparent that Imperil dpes in fact stack with Penetrated Armor 3, it just doesn't stack that noticeably.

It should be expected that fully trained Imperil stacked with PA3 has half the benefit of previous stacks of PA, because 50% * (100% - 25% - 25% - 25%) = 12.5% which is in fact what we see.

What should I wear heavy or light when playing niten. And which stats to max? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

What should I wear heavy or light when playing niten. And which stats to max? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

You wear light, because you don't have the benefit of block from a shield. Evade & parry are your best defences.

Shade armor is the best, especially shade of the shadowdancer.

I want to ask is radiant phase really good compared to charged for elemental mages?
As I know, an elemental mage takes most of the damage during spamming imperil, it also determines how far you can go in IW/GFs.

Charged enhances survivability but radiant contribute nothing for imperil.
What I think radiant would work most is in the case that killing monster with the first T3 spell attack on top of 50% resist, but it seems not very possible without something like DDVII+riddle buff.

So, in what case it would work better than charged?

This post has been edited by qr12345: Nov 11 2018, 03:29

I just came back from 2 years of exile, looked at prices. Are mages making a comeback?

I want to ask is radiant phase really good compared to charged for elemental mages?
As I know, an elemental mage takes most of the damage during spamming imperil, it also determines how far you can go in IW/GFs.

Charged enhances survivability but radiant contribute nothing for imperil.
What I think radiant would work most is in the case that killing monster with the first T3 spell attack on top of 50% resist, but it seems not very possible without something like DDVII+riddle buff.

So, in what case it would work better than charged?

For element, radiants are only useful against Schoolgirls. They do no harm, so you don't need defence. For PFFEST and arena's and IW, full charged is faster. If you get really strong, DD V style, you can mix in one radiant. Then if you get extremely strong, DD VII, then even non-imperil play becomes an option. Then, radiants are the way to go.

I just came back from 2 years of exile, looked at prices. Are mages making a comeback?

Mage has always been popular for high-level players with good income. For lower levels, 1h is still the best option. Prices have been dropping like crazy the past weeks/months. It's a matter of supply and demand. There are many lv500 players that are still very active, so there is high supply of almost everything.

-

Thanks.

cast speed and mana conservation bonus depend on each individual spell https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Spells#Offensive_Spells

look at the "Prof" column where you get values like 0/200. first number is the proficiency level where the spell unlocks, second number is where you get the full 25% bonus

The wiki's page has been edited.
Actually, such info was already being supposed to show up when hovering the "Prof" word, but there was a conflict between the tooltip and the "default" link tootip.

Thank you for reporting guys. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

so...
the precise formula is yet an unsolved mystery? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
the formula is literally on the link that you quote.

Is there any result of the number of average amnesia shard used for Juggernaut 5 when optimal strategy used? I think I am going to calculate them but do not want to re-invent the wheel.

Is there any result of the number of average amnesia shard used for Juggernaut 5 when optimal strategy used? I think I am going to calculate them but do not want to re-invent the wheel.

If you are lucky you need none, if not maybe 20, if you are really unlucky, it is possible to spend 40 or more. This is RNG so imo any average numbers from other people wont tell you anything about how many you will have to spend.

If you are lucky you need none, if not maybe 20, if you are really unlucky, it is possible to spend 40 or more. This is RNG so imo any average numbers from other people wont tell you anything about how many you will have to spend.

I am looking for mathematically calculated one, not experimental average. Anyway, thank you for reply.

Good idea, to my knowledge no one has mathematically calculated such things. It wouldn't be easy and would likely require some level of brute forcing by breaking down into cases as opposed to a single elegant formula. We should calculate for other things as well such as Butcher 5 + Fatality 4, etc.

Go do it yourselves, no offense.

I know very well how to determine the exact formula, but it is really too complicated and there is actually a few cases where what is the "optimal" choice to make is not easy to find out.
The easier way is to just benchmark it.
All this for something ke know roughly with just experience: somewhere around 20-30. Slightly less for armors that have an elemental prefix.

In a general way, it'd be nice if players started doing things by themselves instead of always asking others. Just saying.

I think it would be easier if you just looked through the easily accessible IW logs and filtered for 4/5 IWs. They provide a lot of test cases.

I did that a while back and although I wasn't too concerned with number of shards used, I came up with some rough averages for how much these Item Worlds cost, including both the shard price and credit loss (or service cost) for doing the runs.

But5 + Fat4 or But4 + Fat5 ≈ 1.3 million
Jug5 + Any5 ≈ 1.3 million
Staff chosen 5+4 or 4+5 ≈ 1.9 million

There are plenty of test cases but I didn't estimate the more typical Jug5 + Any. Extrapolating from the above it should be below 600k.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
the formula is literally on the link that you quote.

I read that and try to calculate by formulas:

FinallyInBattleCastTime = EffectiveCastTime / TotalCastSpeed

EffectiveCastTime = OriginalCastTime * ( 1 - 0.25 * CastSpeedProfFactor )
CastSpeedProfFactor = ( EffectiveProficiency - ReqProf ) / ( CapProf - ReqProf )
TotalCastSpeed = ( 1+ CastSpeedBonusOnStatistics ) * ( 1 + Haste )

CastSpeedProfFactor between 0 to 1.

----------------------------
for Divine T1 "Smite":
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Action_Speed
OriginalCastTime = 1.4

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Spells#Offensive_Spells
ReqProf = 0
CapProf = 500

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Spells#Supportive
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Abilities#Supportive
Haste = 50%


and on my Statistics:
// 20.1% cast speed bonus
CastSpeedBonusOnStatistics = 20.1%
// Effective Proficiency Divine 398
EffectiveProficiency = 398
----------------------------


CastSpeedProfFactor = ( 398 - 0 ) / ( 500 - 0 ) = 0.796
TotalCastSpeed = ( 1+ 20.1% ) * ( 1 + 50% ) = 1.8015
EffectiveCastTime = 1.4 * ( 1 - 0.25 * 0.796 ) = 1.1214

FinallyInBattleCastTime = 1.1214 / 1.8015 = 0.62248126561199000832639467110741


******
Test "Smite" in the GF:

Round 2 Start
HPduration= 48
1. Cast Smite
HPduration= 48
2. Cast Smite
HPduration= 47
3. Cast Smite
HPduration= 47
4. Cast Smite
HPduration= 46
5. Cast Smite
HPduration= 45
6. Use Health Potion
HPduration= 45
7. Cast Smite
HPduration= 45
8. Cast Smite
HPduration= 44
9. Cast Smite
HPduration= 44
10. Cast Smite
HPduration= 43
11. Cast Smite
HPduration= 42
12. Cast Smite
HPduration= 42
13. Cast Smite
HPduration= 41
14. Cast Smite
HPduration= 41
15. Cast Smite
HPduration= 40
16. Cast Smite
HPduration= 39
17. Cast Smite
HPduration= 39
18. Cast Smite
HPduration= 38

...flee death

******

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Action_Speed#Tick_.26_Action_Speed
0.622 , it looks like has some residuals? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

if
FinallyInBattleCastTime = 0.622

Round 2 Start
HPduration= 48
1. Cast Smite (time0.622)
HPduration= 48 (47.378)
2. Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.756)
3. Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.134)
4. Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 (45.512)
5. Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.89)
6. Use Health Potion (time0)
HPduration= 45 (44.89)
7. Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.268)
8. Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.646)
9. Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.024)
10. Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 (42.402)
11. Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.78)
12. Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.158)
13. Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.536)
14. Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (39.914)
15. Cast Smite
HPduration= 40 (39.292)
16. Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.67)
17. Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.048)
18. Cast Smite
HPduration= 38 (37.426)

we can see 0.622 seem to be nearly, but a little bit slower than true test result?... (I'm not sure... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) )


and if
FinallyInBattleCastTime = 0.6 (it means cast faster than 0.622)

Round 2 Start
HPduration= 48
1 Cast Smite (time0.6)
HPduration= 48 (47.4)
2 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.8)
3 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.2)
4 Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 (45.6)
5 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (45)
6 Use Health Potion (time0)
HPduration= 45 (45)
7 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.4)
8 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.8)
9 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.2)
10 Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 (42.6)
11 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (42)
12 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.4)
13 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.8)
14 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.2)
15 Cast Smite
HPduration= 40 (39.6)
16 Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (39)
17 Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.4)
18 Cast Smite
HPduration= 38 (37.8)



FinallyInBattleCastTime = 0.615 (faster than 0.622, slower than 0.6)

Round 2 Start
HPduration= 48
1 Cast Smite (time0.615)
HPduration= 48 (47.385)
2 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.77)
3 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 (46.155)
4 Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 (45.54)
5 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.925)
6 Use Health Potion (time0)
HPduration= 45 (44.925)
7 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 (44.31)
8 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.695)
9 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 (43.08)
10 Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 (42.465)
11 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.85)
12 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 (41.235)
13 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.62)
14 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 (40.005)
15 Cast Smite
HPduration= 40 (39.39)
16 Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.775)
17 Cast Smite
HPduration= 39 (38.16)
18 Cast Smite
HPduration= 38 (37.545)



So, I think my understanding maybe has something wrong...? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Or just because of roundup and rounddown somewhere? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Or something have been changed ,so the formulas became out-of-date? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

In a general way, it'd be nice if players started doing things by themselves instead of always asking others. Just saying.

Might have something to do with theere being a thread "Ask the experts", but no "Present stuff you've found out yourself".

<snip>

is the red the only derivation?
I am hald frunk and it's tl;dr.
if yes then you might put the start a bit late, that 48 could be anywhere from 47.01 to 47.99 ( I know it's tighter than that like 47.1~3 if you look at other turn numbers but spare me), unless, you use buff from scroll at the start of the battle that doesn't tick the turn timer from casting a spell, so you'll start from precisely at 0.00
if not, heh, beats me, I don't know.

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Nov 13 2018, 08:24

is the red the only derivation?
I am hald frunk and it's tl;dr.
if yes then you might put the start a bit late, that 48 could be anywhere from 47.01 to 47.99 ( I know it's tighter than that like 47.1~3 if you look at other turn numbers but spare me), unless, you use buff from scroll at the start of the battle that doesn't tick the turn timer from casting a spell, so you'll start from precisely at 0.00
if not, heh, beats me, I don't know.

>>"is the red the only derivation?"
I don't know... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
I can't continue "Cast Smite", the monster will hit me to death (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

and
>>Round 2 Start
I test it in GF round (2/1000), not round (1/1000).
If my understanding is correct,
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Action_Speed
"Tick" will reset each new round? (I'm not sure that...)
The "1. Cast Smite " is my first action in round 2,
and I have Innate Arcana of "Haste". (IA4)
as the wiki, in this test, only the "Smite" action will trigger the "Tick"(cast time).


actually,
after your suggestion, I test again a moment ago,
at this time, I test in round 1.

btw:
if test in round 2 and "Tick" will reset each new round, I will cast "Regen" and "Protection" in round 1.
without them, I will become low HP much easier by monster's hits. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

******
Test "Smite" in the GF:

Round 1 Start
HPduration= none
1 Use Health Draught (time0)
HPduration= 50 ( 50 )
2 Cast Smite (time0.622)
HPduration= 50 ( 49.378 )
3 Cast Smite
HPduration= 49 ( 48.756 )
4 Cast Smite
HPduration= 49 ( 48.134 )
5 Cast Smite
HPduration= 48 ( 47.512 )
6 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 ( 46.89 )
7 Cast Smite
HPduration= 47 ( 46.268 )
8 Use Health Potion (time0)
HPduration= 47 ( 46.268 )
9 Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 ( 45.646 )
10 Cast Smite
HPduration= 46 ( 45.024 )
11 Cast Smite
HPduration= 45 ( 44.402 )
12 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 ( 43.78 )
13 Cast Smite
HPduration= 44 ( 43.158 )
14 Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 ( 42.536 )
15 Cast Smite
HPduration= 43 ( 41.914 )
16 Cast Smite
HPduration= 42 ( 41.292 )
17 Cast Smite
HPduration= 41 ( 40.67 )
18 flee death

******

The result is almost same with test in round 2. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Unsolved Mystery....... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

This post has been edited by 3534: Nov 13 2018, 12:48