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Need some suggestion regarding non imperil elemental mage:

1. Redwood + Cotton Pants = >1.0 prof factor
2. Redwood + Cotton Cap = 0.96-0.98 prof factor, EDB & MDB 10-15 more than 1st set

Which set is better? Or simply such difference are negligible in non imperil mage?

This post has been edited by Lostwizard: Sep 30 2018, 17:08

I have question about mage style (elemental):

How high stats do you need to have to play arenas on Pfudor without constant healing?
By stats I mean mostly MDB, Evade and PMI/MMI.

I'm asking because I need to play on IWBTH without using too much healing items/spells.



This post has been edited by Maximum_Carnage: Sep 30 2018, 19:10

...
Does it also mean that I can go with any prof factor (that provides a minimum of counter-resist) if I want to go Dark mage for the SG arenas, considering that the SGs have -1% mitigation against dark?

dark mage can use a bit lower proficiency for SG arenas but I tested it, 0.3 is too low, 0.7 is faster than 0.3 with more damage.

Need some suggestion regarding non imperil elemental mage:

1. Redwood + Cotton Pants = >1.0 prof factor
2. Redwood + Cotton Cap = 0.96-0.98 prof factor, EDB & MDB 10-15 more than 1st set

Which set is better? Or simply such difference are negligible in non imperil mage?

Imperil will outperform both. Difference between your sets is small: test it out. My experience is that 1.0 is faster, unless you have a big difference in MDB-EDB.

I have question about mage style (elemental):

How high stats do you need to have to play arenas on Pfudor without constant healing?
By stats I mean mostly MDB, Evade and PMI/MMI.

I'm asking because I need to play on IWBTH without using too much healing items/spells.

Your PMI seems very low. Evade seems low. And that burden: Use featherweight shards, I'd say. In the end you will want to forge all relevant stats. But I'd start with PMI and evade.

Your PMI seems very low. Evade seems low. And that burden: Use featherweight shards, I'd say. In the end you will want to forge all relevant stats. But I'd start with PMI and evade.

OK, I will do that. But as you can see my evade is 59.7 and I've forged all my armor to 35.
I saw on your screenshot that you have over 64% evade and I don't think I can reach that. Will this be an issue or forging PMI will compensate that?

OK, I will do that. But as you can see my evade is 59.7 and I've forged all my armor to 35.
I saw on your screenshot that you have over 64% evade and I don't think I can reach that. Will this be an issue or forging PMI will compensate that?

featherweight shard will get you above 60. For arena's you don't need stats like mine, just improve small steps at a time.

OK, I will do that. But as you can see my evade is 59.7 and I've forged all my armor to 35.
I saw on your screenshot that you have over 64% evade and I don't think I can reach that. Will this be an issue or forging PMI will compensate that?

I'd say to also invest more points in agility if your issue is survivability.

I currently have it as my main priority, at 560.

Overall stats are:

STR 300 (because why not)
DEX 518 (parry is good too)
AGI 560
END 540
INT 539
WIS 539

I get 61% evade with a barely forged 4+1 set and using featherweight shards.

This post has been edited by Kinights: Oct 1 2018, 00:26

The base adb of the popup as butcher is raised becomes less than expected. However I had not come to the conclusion that it was because butcher raised adb by less than 2%. There could be other explanations as well such as imprecision, problems in the popup itself, etc.

Scremaz, another possibility I had considered is that butcher may be like forge upgrades, and not affect the tiny quality_bonus part of the roll that is supposedly related to PXP0. Here are some datas for you.

legendary angelic rapier of slaughter, went from 45.56 to 47.35, 1.964% per butcher, 364 PXP0

legendary ethereal rapier of slaughter, went from 45.72 to 48.41, 1.961% per butcher, 1143 to 1210 damage, 1.954% per butcher, 361 PXP0

legendary demonic wakizashi of slaughter forge 5, went from 49.0 to 51.88, 1.959% per butcher, 849 to 899 damage, 1.963% per butcher, 358 PXP0

legendary ethereal rapier of slaughter, went from 46.41 to 56.64 also got forged though, 361 PXP0

legendary demonic rapier of slaughter, went from unknown to 48.85, 619 to 656 damage, 1.992% per butcher, unknown PXP0 but its low

Unfortunately the data are incomplete and people upgrading or soulbinding stuff makes some comparisons less helpful. I will slowly gather more data over time, maybe others can contribute as well.

I have now studied more rapiers in great detail, and made my conclusion which explanation is correct. Butcher is a 2.00% multiplier but does not apply to the PXP0 contribution to base damage. Scremaz checked back then and thought that wasn't so, but perhaps an error was made. I am quite sure now. The main thing that was needed to rule out the truncation explanation was to study stronger rapiers at high level with more butchers on them, to see if the base adb continued to degrade.

Derived_Base = (ceil( round(Base_Roll * Slot_Mod)) +
ceil( round(Suffix_Roll * Slot_Mod)) + Quality_Bonus) * Base_Multiplier

Quality_Bonus = (PXP0-100)/25

If an equipment is forged, the additional multiplier applies to Base_Roll and Suffix Roll only (i.e. Quality_Bonus part is unaffected)

Let's say the average legendary rapier has 362 PXP0. Then 10.48 Quality_Bonus * 0.0854 Base_Multiplier = 0.895 base damage. Let's imagine this rapier has 49.895 base damage, then each level of Butcher adds 1.964% which matches wonderfully with what we see in most examples. Another way to think about it, is that each level of Butcher drops the base damage by 0.018 compared to what you would have expected if you thought Butcher is 2%.

Truncation and rounding still plays a role, but has a much greater effect on the level scaled actual damage, since it loses two decimals of precision. That is why the level 207 legendary rapier seemed to recover the full 2.00% of Butcher. Its low level created more rounding, and luck was enough to mask the PXP0 degradation.

PXP0 = 364

Original Base ADB = 50,27
Original Base ADB + But 2 = 52,24
Original Base ADB + But 4 = 54,21

With But 2, X = 0,01959

With But 4, X = 0,01959

Conclusion: Each Butcher level adds a bonus of 1,959%, not 2% as it was known.

Wait, I take back parts of my previous post. The only things we seem to know for sure are that:

• Butcher increases by less than 2% per level.
• Whatever the increase is on a given weapon, it is pretty consistent for each Butcher. Rounding does not affect the base popups much.

My idea that Butcher doesn't affect the PXP0 contribution did correctly calculate and predict a typical Butcher increase, which I feel can't be coincidence. But when I plug in the actual PXP0 and base damages for these several examples, it doesn't work out exactly. In fact it seems to be going in the wrong direction.

Basara's rapier has the same 364 PXP0 but much more base damage than my legendary angelic rapier. So it should benefit more from Butcher, right? But his rapier's butcher is 1.959% while mine is 1.964% so that's backwards. Likewise, the wind strike rapier has a lesser 361 PXP0 than my angelic rapier, so it should have a stronger butcher. Also the wind strike rapier has slightly more damage, so even more stronger butcher. But it improves only 1.961%

How much is the price to max forge a savage slaughter armor mmm...~?
Or is there a calculator here or something mmm...~?
Ah I guess using HV Utils it should be around 23M, probably more mmm...

This post has been edited by VawX: Oct 1 2018, 08:58

No. Admin has confirmed that butcher adds *exactly* 2%.

But when applied to gears, it behaves strangely. Not only it boosts slightly less than that, I checked many gears at different but levels and they all have a different boost - like another multiplier of sort was applied, our if it interacts somehow with other stats. Due to this, currently there's a small mistake when reverse calculating butcher gears, which of course piles up with butcher level. Small, but there is.

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Oct 1 2018, 09:49

That's what I meant to say, I might not have worded my previous couple posts well.

Anyway, I kind of take back my "take back" second post. I think my first post on this page was correct after all. Butcher is 2.00% applied only to the main, non-PXP0 component of base damage. The part of the previous calculation which I hadn't bothered to show:

10.48 Quality_Bonus * 0.0854 Base_Multiplier = 0.895 base damage. Let's imagine this rapier has 49.895 base damage = 49 true base + 0.895 pxp part.
Then each level of Butcher adds (49 * 1.02 + 0.895) / 49.895 = 1.01964.

I'll show some other calculations later, but I basically found that the variance in "effective" Butcher (so far we've seen 1.959% ~ 1.964%) is merely random due to rounding on the base values. Note that rounding on the level scaled attack values is much more severe (level 207 rapier rounded back up to 1.992%).

What clued me in to the random rounding sub-effect was checking a couple more rapiers not shown here. Both were strong and very similar to Basara's rapier, and both improved by about 1.963% per Butcher. That broke up the incorrect trend seen in previous examples, proving that effective Butcher is partially influenced by rounding.

How much can rounding affect Butcher? Let's assume a rapier with 362 PXP0 and 50.00 base damage. After applying Butcher, whatever the answer is, we round and become imprecise by up to 0.005 base damage. Since 0.005 / 50 = 0.0001 this means that Butcher is effectively 1.96x% ± 0.01%

That's indeed just enough to cover the variance we've seen.

So have we finally achieved absolute perfection? No, we still don't know exactly how this stuff rounds. However we may already know enough to perfectly predict or reverse-calculate the effects of Butcher in most cases. As long as we know the base damage and PXP0, the Butcher calculation might yield the same answer even if we round slightly differently from the game. Being unsure of PXP0 by ± 1 (maybe more) also won't matter in some cases. I illustrate by practicing on a previous real example.

legendary angelic rapier of slaughter, 45.56 base damage, 364 PXP0

10.56 Quality_Bonus * 0.0854 Base_Multiplier = 0.902 base damage rounded to 0.90
45.56 base damage = 44.66 true base + 0.90 pxp part
Butcher 1 is expected to become 44.66 * 1.02 + 0.90 = 46.4532 rounds to 46.45
Butcher 2 is expected to become 44.66 * 1.04 + 0.90 = 47.3464 rounds to 47.35

Time to check! Did we get it exactly right? YES!!

Note that if we tried to calculate effective Butcher without rounding we would have gotten the wrong answer by a bit.
44.66 * 0.02 / 45.56 = 1.960% is wrong. Butcher was actually 1.964% on this rapier due to rounding.

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Oct 2 2018, 22:34

How much is the price to max forge a savage slaughter armor mmm...~?
Or is there a calculator here or something mmm...~?
Ah I guess using HV Utils it should be around 23M, probably more mmm...

25.2M, as of in my spreadsheet
assuming: 100k/adb, 2.5k/acc, 7k/crit, 33k/pmi, 7k/mmi, 0.2k/ele, 0.7k/crush, 0.2k/slash, 0.2k/pierce, 10k/str, 10k/dex, 3.5k/end, 350/mgm, 700/hgm, 60k/rare.
I think mine was a little less as I bought a bunch of slaughter bindings at 98k and actuators at 58k, protection at 31k, str and dex at 9k.

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/fkmWOtd.png)

This post has been edited by as013: Oct 2 2018, 13:02

25.2M, as of in my spreadsheet
assuming: 100k/adb, 2.5k/acc, 7k/crit, 33k/pmi, 7k/mmi, 0.2k/ele, 0.7k/crush, 0.2k/slash, 0.2k/pierce, 10k/str, 10k/dex, 3.5k/end, 350/mgm, 700/hgm, 60k/rare.
I think mine was a little less as I bought a bunch of slaughter bindings at 98k and actuators at 58k, protection at 31k, str and dex at 9k.

Oh that's a nice data, but price of things seems dropping as of lately, but at the same time it's hard to sell trophies and stuff too now mmm...

Testing on the remaining previous examples.

legendary ethereal rapier of slaughter, 45.72 base damage, 361 PXP0

10.44 Quality_Bonus * 0.0854 Base_Multiplier = 0.892 base damage rounded to 0.89
45.72 base damage = 44.83 true base + 0.89 pxp part
Butcher 3 is expected to become 44.83 * 1.06 + 0.89 = 48.4098 rounds to 48.41

legendary replaced rapier of basara, 50.27 base damage, 364 PXP0

50.27 base damage = 49.37 true base + 0.90 pxp part
Butcher 2 is expected to become 49.37 * 1.04 + 0.90 = 52.2448 rounds to 52.24
Butcher 4 is expected to become 49.37 * 1.08 + 0.90 = 54.2196 rounds to 54.22 54.21?

We were exactly right twice but screwed up once, rounding in the wrong direction (it wasn't even a borderline case). My rounding method or perhaps the PXP0 formulas themselves are imperfect.

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Oct 2 2018, 22:30

54.21 becoming 54.22 is screwing up? in which world? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I have a question for the veteran mages.

What is the proper form of using infusions in SG arenas?

Always active? Only when SG start to appear? only when there are two SGs? or three? just on enigma solved? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Thanks in advance for the answers.

I have a question for the veteran mages.

What is the proper form of using infusions in SG arenas?

Always active? Only when SG start to appear? only when there are two SGs? or three? just on enigma solved? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Thanks in advance for the answers.

I don't use infusions for SG - too expensive, too little gain.

I don't use infusions for SG - too expensive, too little gain.

Ok~

In the end It was the right choice not to use them and ask before trying. c:

Is Suffusive Spirit ever worth it? I can buy it right now but I want a second opinion on if I should buy it or just continue saving my hath.