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> Ask the Experts!, Ask anything about hentaiverse. Hints for beginners

 
post Jan 10 2018, 07:47
Post #541
qw3rty67



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QUOTE(gianfrix94 @ Jan 9 2018, 22:10) *
You could go for a Shocking Redwood of Mjolnir for maximum cheapness in forging (just forge only EDB) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The native counter-resist on willow makes a big difference for me. Without it I'd absolutely have to get peni 5 just to get started. Granted the SRM I already own has less than half the mdb and acc of the willow, willows just werks right out of the box.

According to el wiki, matching willow of destruction has about 60% more mdb and half the edb of matching redwood of matching. Redwood will need at least 1 prof, maybe only one if it gets peni 5 (har). I'm already using 1 prof with the willow with no peni. With peni 3 I could go 5 phase, and if the math is right the edb on the extra phase exactly makes up for the missing edb (depending on slot) from use of willow.

As far as actual numbers go, I reduced 60% of my staff's damage and added enough edb to equal what I have on [alt.hentaiverse.org] another redwood I own to simulate an equivalent SRM, then added 20 edb to the willow to simulate a matching prefix + another 35 to simulate 5 phase/peni. The willow does 20% more damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) A 5 phase redwood is still short by 8%. So afaikt, the only redwoods worth using are destructions (same mdb but slightly more edb), IF they have perks and fully forged everything and all mystic/radiant AND it does enough damage to kill in one hit despite the resists, and from what posts I've seen they STILL need peni 5. That's a big ask for a few extra %s edb, and with that much damage going around they're better off using holy for the extra -mit on any stragglers. I think redwood needs a buff tbh (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

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post Jan 10 2018, 09:57
Post #542
Paruri



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Can I ask how counter-resist works on offensive spells? Does it affect possibility of rolls??
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post Jan 10 2018, 10:37
Post #543
Sapo84



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QUOTE(paruri @ Jan 10 2018, 08:57) *

Can I ask how counter-resist works on offensive spells? Does it affect possibility of rolls??

Counter-resist works on resist rolls made by monsters.
20% counter-resist means that the monster will resist 20% less time (well, for offensive spells is complicated so read here).

@qw3rty67: You're forgetting elemental mitigation.
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post Jan 10 2018, 11:02
Post #544
Paruri



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QUOTE(Sapo84 @ Jan 10 2018, 17:37) *

Counter-resist works on resist rolls made by monsters.
20% counter-resist means that the monster will resist 20% less time (well, for offensive spells is complicated so read here).

@qw3rty67: You're forgetting elemental mitigation.

Thanks for reply (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Yes, I already had read wiki, and wanted to know how they work on offensive spells, and as you said so, it seems like hard to tell exact effects on offensive spells.
But can you tell me what do you think about this? Can you feel that monsters had more lower rolls with CR??

This post has been edited by paruri: Jan 10 2018, 11:03
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post Jan 10 2018, 11:48
Post #545
igs88



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"Ask the experts"...

About the mage equipments, I barely know anything about this one.

01. What is the best staff? Demonic katalox of heimdall? Redwood? Willow?
02. I have 1 "charged" cloth with (almost) high price (some said), what is charged? Phase? Frugal?
03. There's an expert here said that the greatest mage is "holy charged mage", why?

I'm sorry for asking basic things but thank you for the answer...

This post has been edited by igs88: Jan 10 2018, 11:51
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post Jan 10 2018, 12:07
Post #546
Paruri



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QUOTE(igs88 @ Jan 10 2018, 18:48) *

"Ask the experts"...

About the mage equipments, I barely know anything about this one.

01. What is the best staff? Demonic katalox of heimdall? Redwood? Willow?
02. I have 1 "charged" cloth with (almost) high price (some said), what is charged? Phase? Frugal?
03. There's an expert here said that the greatest mage is "holy charged mage", why?

I'm sorry for asking basic things but thank you for the answer...


1.
fire, cold : fiery/arctic redwood staff of destruction
elec, wind, dark : shocking, tempestuous, demonic willow staff of destruction
dark : demonic katalox staff of destruction
holy : hallowed oak staff of heimdal

2.
charged : increase casting speed
phase : rare armor of cloth, must have edb suffix
frugal : increase mana conservation
casting speed is important because, most mages first spell imperil, and while doing that, mages are weak. So more casting speed means, less damage.
3.
holy and dark are proper for non-imperil style because they have higher base spell damage, and lower decrease of imperil. Especially holy has spell proc, which boost its damage 10%, and this is the reason holy mage's equips are so expensive.

This post has been edited by paruri: Jan 10 2018, 12:09
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post Jan 10 2018, 13:06
Post #547
Sapo84



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QUOTE(paruri @ Jan 10 2018, 10:02) *

Yes, I already had read wiki, and wanted to know how they work on offensive spells, and as you said so, it seems like hard to tell exact effects on offensive spells.
But can you tell me what do you think about this? Can you feel that monsters had more lower rolls with CR??

If you want some numbers taken from actual play check this.
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post Jan 10 2018, 13:44
Post #548
Cryosite



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QUOTE(igs88 @ Jan 10 2018, 01:48) *

"Ask the experts"...

About the mage equipments, I barely know anything about this one.

01. What is the best staff? Demonic katalox of heimdall? Redwood? Willow?
02. I have 1 "charged" cloth with (almost) high price (some said), what is charged? Phase? Frugal?
03. There's an expert here said that the greatest mage is "holy charged mage", why?

I'm sorry for asking basic things but thank you for the answer...


Mage business is complicated serious business.

The general plan of the mage build is "glass cannon." kill everything fast through high damage before you take any yourself.

You can raise mage damage through "MDB" wich is the magical equivalent to ADB for melee. You also have "EDB" (elemental damage boost) which is a damage multiplier. Not just additive. So the overall goal of the mage is to generate craploads of damage by boosting both of these stats.

Spells are naturally area of effect, so you kill lots of things all at once.

Increased casting speed lets you get more spells off before the enemy takes a turn/few turs. Hence why charged prefix is valuable.

With those considerations, a mage also only worries much about certain defense stats: evade (which is overcome with magical accuracy) magical mitigation, elemental mitigation, and hit points (which are overcome by more raw damage and/or the Imperil spell and proficiency), and the resist stat (which is overcome with proficiency and staff potency penetrator).


1)
The best staff is a "matching" staff for whichever element you choose to specialize in. Specializing in an element lets you get your staff and five pieces of cloth armor all boosting your one element to do better than a "generalist" ever could. A "matching staff" has prefix, wood-type, and suffix all helping the same element. From there, a mage also wants high numbers for MDB, EDB, and prof, all of which a staff can provide.

Prefix: easy. Ethereal is bad always. There are six elemental prefixes, each one provides extra EDB for that element. Ethereal doesn't. This must match your element to be worth using.

Suffix: there is an elemental suffix for each element which is pretty good, or "destruction" which is more MDB. There are also prof suffixes which are so-so, but not entirely worthless. Again, you want more MDB, EDB, and prof out of your staff.

The type of wood your staff is made of has certain "base" values before considering prefix or suffix. Redwood has all four elemental EDBs built in. So a prefix for one of the four elemental types adds to that for a bunch of EDB. Willow has some counter-resist built in and elec, wind, and dark EDB built in. Oak has some counter resist, holy, fire, and cold EDB built in. Katalox has some holy and dark built in. They also have certain profs built in, and different min/max amounts of MDB.

So if, like me, you want to build a cold-mage set, you'd want either a redwood or oak staff, as both have cold EDB built in. You'd want an Arctic prefix for more cold EDB. You'd want a suffix of (from worst to best) Elementalist, Nifflheim, or Destruction.

If you wanted to do holy, you'd want a hallowed oak/katalox staff of heimdall/heaven-sent/destruction.

Make sense?

2)
Charged raises casting speed. This makes you go faster and take less attacks while doing your mage routine of laying out imperil, then casting nukes to kill everything. The less attacks you take, the less healing you have to do, and the more you can spend your time and mana killing stuff.

Radiant is another prefix. It adds to MDB of the armor piece, raising damage. Whether you want charged or radiant prefixes depends where you're mostly fighting, and might also depend on some other factors in your build (like how much other sources of MDB/EDB you have, how much Juggernaut potencies you have, how much evade/mitigation you have and thus how tanky your mage is, and so on).

Frugal is another prefix. Because it isn't one of those other two, it isn't worth much. But it reduces how much mana your spells cost, so it isn't worthless.

Phaze is a type of cloth armor. Just like how heavy armor comes in plate or power, and how light armor comes in leather or shade. Cloth armor comes in cotton or phaze.

all cloth armor your mage wears needs a suffix that matches your element. Cotton gives more prof, while phase gives EDB.

With the above two examples, cold mage would want "elementalist" on your cotton pieces, and "niffleheim" on phaze pieces. How many phaze and how many cotton depends on your build and how much prof you need and how much you can devote to raw damage.

Holy would want heaven-sent and heimdall.

3) Holy is considered the best because the richest and most powerful players in the game are willing to spend the most to have the best pieces of holy gear. It has a very tiny bit of advantage over other elements because the "spell proc" effect Holy inflicts reduces mitigation by 10%, increasing your damage. All else being equal, you get more damage as a result, thus can kill faster.

Electric, if I remember right, reduces evasion, which sort of helps your offense. But if you have enough accuracy, you don't miss anyway.

Cold reduces their speed, which is a defensive benefit. Wind makes them miss 10% of the time which is a defensive benefit. Fire and dark reduce their damage by 10% which is a defensive benefit.

There is also some value in that holy/dark are slightly better elements than the other four, since the mix of elemental resistances that you find among opponents slightly favors those two. Mostly in "SG arenas" where the SG opponents have strong resistance to all elements except holy/dark. Though Imperil and proficiency bypass a lot of elemental resistance.

At the end of the day, no matter which mage build you go with, it is going to cost several tens of millions, probably a few hundred million credits to buy: good enough gear, enough materials to upgrade everything, and get your staff IW'd to the correct potencies. Some elements are cheaper than others to get into, and all will perform pretty close to similar until you start getting into the upper limits. Holy, for example, will cost more mana for its spells than fire/ice/wind/elec. You might have trouble keeping mana going for it until you have enough MDB/EDB/prof to kill everything in few enough casts. You might have to heal slightly less with Dark/Fire/Cold/Wind due to those procs reducing enemy offense a little bit.

So, don't be fooled into thinking "OK, Holy is best, do that, ignore everything else." Holy is like, 100/100. Other mages are 90/100. Mages with bad gear are 10/100. Most melee builds are probably 50/100 with bad gear or 75/100 if invested in heavy. 1h with bad gear is probably 55/100, and with good gear might be 80/100. (and watch, everyone will have different opinions on those numbers). The point is, don't be lured into a trap.
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post Jan 10 2018, 14:00
Post #549
Paruri



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QUOTE(Sapo84 @ Jan 10 2018, 20:06) *

If you want some numbers taken from actual play check this.

Thank you so much! This is exactly what I wanted (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
This helped me a lot!
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post Jan 10 2018, 14:26
Post #550
Sapo84



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QUOTE(Cryosite @ Jan 10 2018, 12:44) *

Oak has some counter resist, holy, fire, and cold EDB built in. [...]

So if, like me, you want to build a cold-mage set, you'd want either a redwood or oak staff, as both have cold EDB built in.


Unfortunately Oak doesn't have a matching suffix for fire/cold thus is not recommended.

QUOTE(Cryosite @ Jan 10 2018, 12:44) *

Electric, if I remember right, reduces evasion, which sort of helps your offense. But if you have enough accuracy, you don't miss anyway.

It also reduces resist (the net result is slightly higher damage).
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post Jan 10 2018, 14:44
Post #551
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OT: Cryosite, i appreciate the fact that you want to share your knowledge, but you've been encouraged a few times (both in public and in private) to write a bit less than this.

being brief is another way to help users. thank you for your cooperation.
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post Jan 10 2018, 15:04
Post #552
Cryosite



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QUOTE(Scremaz @ Jan 10 2018, 04:44) *

OT: Cryosite, i appreciate the fact that you want to share your knowledge, but you've been encouraged a few times (both in public and in private) to write a bit less than this.

being brief is another way to help users. thank you for your cooperation.


Overly brief responses and a lack of interest in being informative has resulted in a community which impatiently gives advice along the lines of "do this" without knowing the why. The person asked the why and expressed a lack of knowledge on the topic.

I'll be brief when it is appropriate. Like now. I'll thank you to stop trying to make everyone treat a forum like Twitter.
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post Jan 10 2018, 15:06
Post #553
igs88



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@Cryosite : thank you so much for the explanation, it really ticks me to build one (with several two-digits millions (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)). Reading your explanation is like imagining things like casting orbital cannon every 1-2turns to 6-10enemies... wooww... that's great and "real great" for credits...

Thank you
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post Jan 10 2018, 15:13
Post #554
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question about cast speed

from wiki
if one player get 5 legendary charged species at around 50%cs
he will gain 16.4%cs
and from potency of staff 5 spell-weaver get another 7.4 cs
and from Cloth Castspeed at around level 400 with 430 prof
43*0.25=10.75
total additive Cast Speed could be 10.75+16.4+7.34=34.5
could be 33~35

question is that
the 60% action speed from hastened should be productive?
and 25% cast speed from specific magic prof(double as level) should be productice?

If prof cast speed is productive then then prospective cs is (1-33%)*(1-60%)*(1-0.25)=0.201?

max cs is around~ 0.195?

further consider the cast speed of T3(1.6) and imp(0.6)
action time of 3 times imp could be =0.3618 turn
when Cast T3 (1.6+1.8)*0.201=0.6834 (hopefully T3 will beat most weak enemies down so we dont need to calculate prob of hit

with max cs (1.6+1.8)*0.195=0.663
as from wiki
Monster Action Speed
All monsters have an initiative for their first attack of 0.1 to 1 times their base action speed (chosen at random).
Custom Monsters can increase their action speed with the Swiftness Chaos Upgrade (+2.5% per rank, +50% max). simplify by make each value same probability
Playing on PFUDOR difficulty (+25%)
action speed is [0.5~1]*0.75=[0.375~0.75]
first attack speed is[0.1~1]*[0.5~1]*(1-0.25)=(0.075~0.75)*(0.5~1)=[0.0375~0.75]


suppose all random 9 monsters alive ,use simple random distribution(each value has the same probability

the probabilty of being hit after 3 imp is aruond 9*0.455=4 hits spread in 3 cast turn (did not considering evade chance

suppose 10 enemies wihch needs 4 imp time 0.4824>0.375
the probability of first attack hit is 10*0.62=6 hits
second attack is ~6*0.15=1 hit (should be higher cause these are 6 fast enemies ..)




This post has been edited by amumusdream: Jan 10 2018, 16:08
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post Jan 10 2018, 17:05
Post #555
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Alrighty. Time to reveal with I've discovered yesterday.
Basically, I found out how exactly the following things are calculated:
-total player HP
-PMit, MMit and elemental mitigations
-block chance
-and probably pretty much every stat


1) The truth about the Juggernaut potency

I'll start with player HP. The wiki has very little info regarding this:
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Character_Stats#Points
QUOTE
Health Points = (500 + (Level * 10) + (END * 6)) * HP Tank * vigorous_vitality
The Hath Perk bonus is 1.10 if the appropriate perk is possessed. Otherwise it is 1.


We have absolutely no indication whatsoever regarding how other things that have an effect on HP ("Heavy HP" ability, "Light HP/MP" ability, Juggernaut potency) actually do it. At best, we could guess that the "HP tank" ability was bewteen 1.0 and 2.0.

Scoop: actually, absolutely every HP related buff is included in the "HP tank" indicated on the wiki, and they are additive between each other.
That "HP tank" in the wiki formula is actually the following thing:
1.0+HP tank ability+Light HP/MP ability+Heavy HP+Juggernaut

For someone like me, we get this:
HP tank ability maxed out => +100%
Juggernaut 22 => +44%
Heavy HP ability maxed out + 411 Heavy armor effective proficiency => +41.1%
"HP tank" = 1.0 + 1.0 + 0.44 + 0.411 = 2.821

And once I inject that in the HP formula (Lvl 371, 742 End, VV perk), I do get my total HP displayed in my stats: 27164.
I then wondered what was the actual influence of Juggernaut in all this: what would be my HP pool without any Juggernaut potency?
"HP tank" = 1.0 + 1.0 + 0.411 = 2.411
Total HP = (500 + (371 * 10) + (742 * 6)) * 2.411 * 1.1 = 22972
Actual increase of HP thanks to Jug22: 4192
Actual percentage of increase: 18.24%

Shocking revalation:
Juggernaut is actually way weaker than one might think.
This is due to it being combined additively with the HP tank, Heavy HP, Light HP/MP abilities, instead of being a layer by itself. In other words, all the abilities and Juggernaut raise your HP pool by a percentage of the base HP (500 + (Level * 10) + (END * 6)), and Juggernaut itself has much less global impact due to the abilities weighing quite a lot in the balance (especially at higher heavy/light proficiencies, that grant a greater HP bonus).

I have calculated that the very first Juggernaut potency gained on the equipment of someone of my level represents a total increase of HP of 0.8% of my entire HP pool, not the 2% written in the equipment stats. For players of a higher level, expect something even lower due to the Heavy HP ability. Of course, subsequent potency levels represent an always lower increase.
You can also come to the conclusion that Cloth setups are those that have the most benefit in Juggernaut potencies, since there is no "Cloth HP" ability.

Likewise, it is very very likely that the Capacitor potency interacts with the MP abilities and the total MP pool, though I haven't checked it. And with the same logic, Heavy builds would benefit the most from Capacitor potencies, though frankly we don't need it anyway.



2)PMit, MMit and Elem Mits: how htey are calculated

Before making discoveries regarding HP calculations, I was wondering why it was hard to exceed 60% elemental mitigations, despite having many potencies and mitigation prefixes. The total mitigation, whatever the type, is always lower than the simple addition of all percentages together.

So I asked myself the following thing:
"What if the mitigations worked in a similar way than how shielding armor interacts with a shield?"

After a few calculations, I found out the following thing:
All mitigations are applied after each other in a [en.wikipedia.org] Matryoshka doll (russian doll) fashion

In other words, total mitigation is calculated with "layers" that filter a percentage of the damage received: you have your "base mitigation" (endurance, agility, wisdom) as first layer, then every equipment that mitigates the associated percentage of what's left of damage from the previous layer.

Let's take the formula written in the wiki:
QUOTE
Physical Mitigation = 1 - (1 - equipment_bonus) * (900/(900 + END + (AGI/2)))
Magical Mitigation = 1 - (1 - equipment_bonus) * (900/(900 + END + (WIS/2)))

But it isn't explained anywhere what "equipment bonus" is. Here is how it actually works:
QUOTE
Physical Mitigation = 1 - (1 - mainhand_pmit) * (1 - offhand_pmit) * (1 - helmet_pmit) * ... * (1 - feet_pmit) * (900/(900 + END + (AGI/2)))
Magical Mitigation = 1 - (1 - mainhand_mmit) * (1 - offhand_mmit) * (1 - helmet_mmit) * ... * (1 - feet_mmit) * (900/(900 + END + (WIS/2)))


Of course, when there is no PMit/MMit stat (which is mostly the case for mainhand and offhand, save for shields), the associated factor becomes "1" in the formula. Once you apply that formula that way, you do find your exact PMit and MMit stats.

What about the elemental mitigation stats? They work the exact same way, except that there is no "base mitigation" given by the player stats. Potencies and prefixes are applied the same way. It's still calculated the same way for physical mitigations (crushing/slashing/piercing), with the heavy crush/slash/piercing potencies acting as one of the layers.

What conclusions can we take regarding mitigations?
1) The more redundancy, the less influence on the actual number displayed in the player stats
2) One single strong layer is more efficient than several small layers. Fireproof 5 will be more efficient than Fireproof 2+Fireproof 3 : 0.8 (20% mit) < 0.92 (8% mit) * 0.88 (12% mit) = 0.8096
3) All equipments mitigation bonuses, mitigation abilities, should be considered as a global mitigation buffs on their own


3) What all of this should change in our way to play and work potencies?
I'll be frank: if I did all this work of research to understand how exactly the game works, it is because I want to optimize my builds to have the most efficiency.

First huge thing: everyone should stop looking for "Jug25" without asking himself questions, even less without knowing what exactly is the benefit of Jug25. Jug25 will never, ever, actually increase your HP by a flat 50%. At best, it will raise your total HP tank by (2.50-2.0)/2.0=25% for a cloth setup. Much less for a Heavy setup with 500 proficiency: (3.0-2.5)/2.5=20%. Furthermore, Juggernaut will not buff the power of any of your regenerations (Cure, Regen, draughts, potions), so it will not help you tanking incoming damage effectively

Second thing: instead of Juggernaut, raising the individual elemental mitigations could be a good idea. It takes only one potency to raise the associated mitigation by 20%. Do it a second time, and the total mitigation for that element is already at 1-0.8*0.8=36%. You can get such a 36% for every elemental attack quite easily for a 1H build, without having any mitigation prefix: 2 potencies for each equipment. That won't protect you from crushing/slashing/piercing/void attacks, but it's still great anyway. Not to mention that you could very well focus your efforts on elements frequently used by monsters (Dark,Holy,Fire) to enhance your resistance regarding these elements. If you use a full mitigation prefix set (one of each prefix), you can reach a whooping 55% mitigation for all elements (20% due to potencies, around 30% for prefixes)!
But further than raising the mitigations, chosing that way of IWing your equipments will make your healing more efficient overall.

Third thing: all your potencies should always be "5" in terms of optimization. As desmontrated by the Fireproof 5 VS Fireproof 2+Fireproof 3 calculation made earlier.

Fourth thing: there is no such thing as Protection being better than Warding, or the other way around. There is only one type allowing a given equipment to raise the overall physical/mitigation of the entire build more than the other, along with you estimating what needs to be mitigated more than the other. If I take a Peerless Power Helmet of Protection, it will have a 11.16 base PMit instead of of a 8.11 base PMit, which means you will mitigate physical damage 37% better for the entire build. Likewise, Peerless Power Helmet of Warding will provide a magical mitigation (11.48-6.26)/6.26=83% better for the entire build. I let you imagine what it gives against Celestials when you have two Warding in your armor.
Note that taking into account scaled/forged stats is not needed, as the ratios would remain the same.

4) Global conclusion
I am not saying that going "Force Shield Rapier Jug25 Power of Slaughter" is a bad thing. If anything, it is even the smart way of playing 1H in an endgame scope, as you do can tank the attacks well enough in order not to need any buff in PMit, MMit or elemental mitigations. Likewise, it all explains why 1H players who are not endgame should prefer Protection/Warding power armor, as their effect is quite significant on one's survivability (probably by 10-20% per equipment, according to the calculations I made in the 4th conclusion regarding Protection/Warding suffixes).
That much, we already knew it.

What should really change, is:
-how one should see the Juggernaut potency
-elemental mitigations (and prefixes) are to be considered seriously in stead of Juggernaut, if one wants to increase his survivability
-how we see plate armor, they could very well allow us to play 2H instead of 1H by having a comparable defense (if not even higher)


For my part, I am determined to become an endgame player who will play Power 2H and to see if it's possible to be as fast (if not even faster) than a 1H build.

TL;DR
Juggernaut is far, far from being the best potency. It will only allow you to tank damage bursts in a short span (which has its advantages), but elemental mitigations are way better in the long run (by allowing Regen and draughts to be more efficien overall) if you receive damage in a continuous way. They are even to be considered very seriously in the scope of a potential Plate/Power 2H build that will compensate its much lower natural defense by the defense provided by his armor and its lower base damage by the domino strike.
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post Jan 10 2018, 17:25
Post #556
igs88



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@decondelite : that's why I felt a bit odd when I get jugg-1 (2% hp) but my hp : 1696x -->> 1708x, it's not even 1%. It's enlighting me...

But I'm still searching for the "slaughter" equipment..

Thank you for the hard work.
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post Jan 10 2018, 17:40
Post #557
Paruri



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QUOTE(decondelite @ Jan 11 2018, 00:05) *


Thanks for all the works you done (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
But I wonder, isn't there a equipment bonus formula in wiki already?

For base damage, crit damage, accuracy and cast speed, equipment_bonus is the sum of the values on the player's current equipment.
For everything else, equipment_bonus is multiplicative, and follows the following formula:
total_equipment_bonus = 1 - (1-bonus_a)*(1-bonus_b)*(1-bonus_c)...

And considering the ratio of all the elemental attacks take in overall attacks, I wonder how elemental mitigation could be effective.

This post has been edited by paruri: Jan 10 2018, 17:46
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post Jan 10 2018, 19:17
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QUOTE(paruri @ Jan 10 2018, 16:40) *

Thanks for all the works you done (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
But I wonder, isn't there a equipment bonus formula in wiki already?

For base damage, crit damage, accuracy and cast speed, equipment_bonus is the sum of the values on the player's current equipment.
For everything else, equipment_bonus is multiplicative, and follows the following formula:
total_equipment_bonus = 1 - (1-bonus_a)*(1-bonus_b)*(1-bonus_c)...

And considering the ratio of all the elemental attacks take in overall attacks, I wonder how elemental mitigation could be effective.


I'm not even sure that stats like crit damage, cast speed and all sum up. I haven't checked it, but at least I can safely say one thing: bonuses stacking in a Matryoshka doll way or multiplicatively gives total values very close to the simple addition of the bonuses when the values are low.

I will correct and add information in the wiki a bit later, when I'll be done with a few other things.
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post Jan 10 2018, 21:37
Post #559
Dead-ed



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QUOTE(paruri @ Jan 10 2018, 08:40) *

And considering the ratio of all the elemental attacks take in overall attacks, I wonder how elemental mitigation could be effective.

We need a proper log recorder for that.
QUOTE
Bleeding Wound hits Reimu for 4528 damage.
Bleeding Wound hits In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10 for 4528 damage.
Bleeding Wound hits King Marien for 7547 damage.
Bleeding Wound hits So Fire for 6037 damage.
Bleeding Wound hits Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko for 4528 damage.
Regen restores 1841 points of health.
You evade the attack from In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10.
So Fire gains the effect Turbulent Air.
Your spike shield hits So Fire for 5 points of wind damage.
You parry the attack from So Fire.
You evade the attack from Reimu.
Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko casts It through all eternity, and hits you for 4033 holy damage.
King Marien casts Neotare beam, and hits you for 1211 holy damage (50% resisted).
In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10 gains the effect Turbulent Air.
Your spike shield hits In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10 for 5 points of wind damage.
You parry the attack from In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10.
You evade the attack from So Fire.
Your spike shield hits Reimu for 5 points of wind damage.
You parry the attack from Reimu.
Speedstar 013 has been defeated.
Void Strike hits Speedstar 013 for 2021 void damage.
Fire Strike hits Speedstar 013 for 634 fire damage.
Reimu gains the effect Bleeding Wound.
You hit Reimu for 2094 void damage.
King Marien gains the effect Bleeding Wound.
You crit King Marien for 4875 void damage.
In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10 gains the effect Bleeding Wound.
You hit In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10 for 2510 void damage.
You crit Speedstar 013 for 6333 void damage.
Bleeding Wound hits Reimu for 3019 damage.
Bleeding Wound hits Speedstar 013 for 3019 damage.
Bleeding Wound hits In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10 for 3019 damage.
Bleeding Wound hits King Marien for 6037 damage.
The effect Turbulent Air on So Fire has expired.
Bleeding Wound hits So Fire for 6037 damage.
Bleeding Wound hits Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko for 4528 damage.Regen restores 1841 points of health.
Your spike shield hits Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko for 5 points of wind damage.
You parry the attack from Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko.
Your spike shield hits Speedstar 013 for 5 points of wind damage.
You parry the attack from Speedstar 013.
Your spike shield hits In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10 for 5 points of wind damage.
You parry the attack from In Memorabilia Of Darksage C10.
Your spike shield hits So Fire for 17 points of wind damage.
So Fire hits you for 342 crushing damage.
You evade the attack from King Marien.
Reimu casts Musou Fuuin, and hits you for 2339 holy damage.
Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko casts Ebullient future, and hits you for 2525 holy damage.
Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko gains the effect Bleeding Wound.
Void Strike hits Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko for 788 void damage.
Dark Strike hits Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko for 625 dark damage.
Your offhand crits Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko for 3778 void damage.
Void Strike hits Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko for 1629 void damage.
Fire Strike hits Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko for 688 fire damage.
You hit King Marien for 2247 void damage.
So Fire gains the effect Bleeding Wound.
You crit So Fire for 4807 void damage.
You crit Riazyuhunter Amamiya Yuuko for 5396 void damage.

69.6 mmi & 66.9 hmi.
Just noticed, magic damage doesn't trigger spike shield?
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post Jan 10 2018, 22:25
Post #560
Sapo84



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QUOTE(Dead-ed @ Jan 10 2018, 20:37) *

We need a proper log recorder for that.

f4tal did log it some months ago here.
That report led me to make this analysis.

I don't think there is any other way to calculate the impact of the mitigations.
It's also quite easy because mitigations are easy to reason about.
An equipment with 5% PMI compared to no equipment means a 5% reduction of damage (from 0 to 5% or from 50 to 52.5% it's exactly 5% reduction in damage).

Going back to f4tal's analysis only holyproof seems worth the effort, every other potency would have ~0.6% overall effect even when it reaches 20% specific mitigation.
The 4% from jug is a lot better than that and that's why it's pretty much the potency to get for armors (also I was sure everyone knew that jug percentage is applied to the base value, like most of the regeneration/cure/whatever).
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