[X] My Assistant

It once took me 500. That was many patches ago. It took two months. I watched through the entire series of Goodnight Sweetheart. Tenboro made IW much easier after that.

And we all still complain ┐(︶▽︶)┌.

Are there any graphs that show comparison of exp between arenas??

I totally just deleted my own anotations (*/▽＼*) of exp and turns.

Considering the enormous amount of spirit we have compared to the consumption of spirit by the spirit stance, we might as well consider it's perfectly useless.

It may depend on your level and defenses (more your defenses, because as people level up they tend to acquire more power and slaughter armor, sacrificing their defense for offense, essentially keeping defense steady between low and mid level).

If your defenses are high your spark of life will never activate and your spirit shield would use little, so the majority of your spirit consumption, while very low, comes from the consumption of spirit stance. If your defenses are low and you are doing a tough IW or grindfest then the majority of spirit consumption comes from the spirit shield.

But yeah, base spirit is overall pretty useless. At best it is saving you spirit draughts. While there is some threat a weak player's spirit shield will be overwhelmed in IW and he dies, you will never die because you couldn't feed your spirit stance. So intelligence 0 is probably fine on a warrior.

How much money do i have to waste to reach level 50 in forging rank?
I'm level 19 now (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

This post has been edited by gianfrix94: Jan 4 2018, 23:12

Scremaz, another possibility I had considered is that butcher may be like forge upgrades, and not affect the tiny quality_bonus part of the roll that is supposedly related to PXP0. Here are some datas for you.

legendary angelic rapier of slaughter, went from 45.56 to 47.35, 1.964% per butcher, 364 PXP0

legendary ethereal rapier of slaughter, went from 45.72 to 48.41, 1.961% per butcher, 1143 to 1210 damage, 1.954% per butcher, 361 PXP0

legendary demonic wakizashi of slaughter forge 5, went from 49.0 to 51.88, 1.959% per butcher, 849 to 899 damage, 1.963% per butcher, 358 PXP0

legendary ethereal rapier of slaughter, went from 46.41 to 56.64 also got forged though, 361 PXP0

legendary demonic rapier of slaughter, went from unknown to 48.85, 619 to 656 damage, 1.992% per butcher, unknown PXP0 but its low

Unfortunately the data are incomplete and people upgrading or soulbinding stuff makes some comparisons less helpful. I will slowly gather more data over time, maybe others can contribute as well.

Scremaz, another possibility I had considered is that butcher may be like forge upgrades, and not affect the tiny quality_bonus part of the roll that is supposedly related to PXP0.

hmm... that would be a pain, but would explain some things. didn't think about it.


[edit]: nope, just checked and doesn't seem the case.

 verify_But_Arch.zip ( 10.39k ) Number of downloads: 17


This post has been edited by Scremaz: Jan 5 2018, 00:40

How much money do i have to waste to reach level 50 in forging rank?
I'm level 19 now (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Someday ヽ(o´∀`)ﾉ♪♬ someway
You will get to 50 baby

Someday ヽ(o´∀`)ﾉ♪♬ someway
You will get to 50 baby

Someday, far away
ᕕ(⌐■_■)ᕗ ♪♬

...It was a serious question though (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Someday, far away
ᕕ(⌐■_■)ᕗ ♪♬

...It was a serious question though (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

a bunch. not sure how many. it also depends on what you forge. i suggest you to forge your gears whenever you need (even the most useless stats since usually they are associated with cheap bindings, but only until catalyst cost is still reasonable) and forge level will grow, little by little

I had already done the exact calculation the Basara Nekki did with his rapier with my demonic rapier when I first appeared on this board. That's part of why I was asking all those questions earlier and still from time to time raise questions regarding the precision of the various spreadsheets and formulas we have.

I will confirm that the phenomena likely extends to all rapiers or weapons, as I've tested several by now. The base adb of the popup as butcher is raised becomes less than expected. However I had not come to the conclusion that it was because butcher raised adb by less than 2%. There could be other explanations as well such as imprecision, problems in the popup itself, etc.

ah. here i found it's slightly different than basara's, yet still < 2% and more fitting this way. tbh we don't even know if it's a number of its own or a it's obtained starting from other ones, so there's also the chance it's a product of other coefficients, yep. for now i guess we will simply collect enough datas and do an average.
also, this table: https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Item_World#Potencies may be better organized with another column, perhaps.
may i see your calculations, please?

Scremaz, another possibility I had considered is that butcher may be like forge upgrades, and not affect the tiny quality_bonus part of the roll that is supposedly related to PXP0. Here are some datas for you.

legendary angelic rapier of slaughter, went from 45.56 to 47.35, 1.964% per butcher, 364 PXP0

legendary ethereal rapier of slaughter, went from 45.72 to 48.41, 1.961% per butcher, 1143 to 1210 damage, 1.954% per butcher, 361 PXP0

legendary demonic wakizashi of slaughter forge 5, went from 49.0 to 51.88, 1.959% per butcher, 849 to 899 damage, 1.963% per butcher, 358 PXP0

legendary ethereal rapier of slaughter, went from 46.41 to 56.64 also got forged though, 361 PXP0

legendary demonic rapier of slaughter, went from unknown to 48.85, 619 to 656 damage, 1.992% per butcher, unknown PXP0 but its low

Unfortunately the data are incomplete and people upgrading or soulbinding stuff makes some comparisons less helpful. I will slowly gather more data over time, maybe others can contribute as well.

Just to complement my information, my Rapier was forge level 0 when I made the IW, and his PXP0 was 364.

One thing I believe may be influencing any difference in the calculations already made in this game is that the "real" numbers are not exactly the same as the ones we're seeing. For example, a PXP0=360 may actually be 359,87 or 360,19, but what we see is just an integer due to the rounding of the value. And it is the real number (without rounding) that goes into the system calculations. The same goes for all other attributes (only 2 decimals). This could explain this variation in the coefficients obtained above (and in previous messages). And also because of two equipments with the same value of PXP0 present different numbers of rounds of IW, and also different values for the subsequent PXPs.

One thing I believe may be influencing any difference in the calculations already made in this game is that the "real" numbers are not exactly the same as the ones we're seeing. For example, a PXP0=360 may actually be 359,87 or 360,19, but what we see is just an integer due to the rounding of the value. And it is the real number (without rounding) that goes into the system calculations.

i doubt it. actually, if you do reverse calculations with my spreadsheets you can see they don't vary too much even with a relevant difference of PXP

search for "keycodes" in the script and take a look at the examples and defaults below

There are literally examples exactly as you asked for inside the script:
[i.imgur.com] (IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/VbOTQgGh.png)

ctrl+f and type "keycodes" and look around. Sickentide did an amazing job with this script and packed it with all kinds of explanations and stuff like this. It is saddening to see someone give up so quickly when the exact answer you want is right there.
[edit]: resize image

FYI: We had PM contact. if Monsterbation fails to load completely, there is a typo somewhere. That's very annoying.

Solution: open HV in a tab, then use Inspect on the webpage, then check the Console. You'll see where your typo is.

I did it! The method DJNoni told me through PM worked! Thank you so much! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It was indeed a typo; I forgot to put an apostrophe at the end of one of the spells.

This post has been edited by Setton-san: Jan 5 2018, 01:54

not true... (facepalm)

Spirit stance is excellent for melee. More spirit = more spirit stance.

More spirit is useless for: Spark of Life, Spirit Shield, spirit regeneration / draughts - those aren't affected by more spirit through INT.

Yes, true. The amount of extra SP you get from raising INT compared to not raising INT does not increase how long you can keep Spirit Stance up, and regardless of what your max SP is, you need to use SP restoratives while using Spirit Stance anyway.

I am tired of having to explain every single time that "technically, yes, there is a 0.00000000000000000001% value to it." It is functionally useless and we should stop adivising people that it has a use.

INT is useless for melee. Until the game mechanics change to make it otherwise, that is the correct advice to give people. Stop misleading them into thinking it is a good idea.

Again, here is the bloody explanation:
Base SP (raised by increasing PABs and the Hath Perk) not only determines what your Max SP is, but also influences the two main uses of Spirit Points: Spark of Life and Spirit Stance. All restoratives are either directly or indirectly scaled off of it too (Elixir fully restores, so is based off max SP, which is based off base SP).

The only interaction SP has with the game that isn't scaled off of Base SP is Spirit Stance. It costs 1 SP per turn.

If your comparison is "do I raise INT or not as melee" we can, from past examples, show a difference in these two options of roughly 350 INT (the amount that people used to suggest as being trivial-priced, so why not?"

(1 + (STR + DEX + AGI + END + (INT=350) + WIS) / 5)
- (1 + (STR + DEX + AGI + END + (INT=0) + WIS) / 5) = 70.

Now explain which melee build can use Spirit Stance for 70 turns without taking into consideration Overcharge running out repeatedly? 1H. We can disregard all other melee builds because the extra 70 SP does not do anything for them at all. Now explain what situation a 1h player (or any player) will ever worry about using up their whole SP bar on Spirit Stance to where an extra 70 SP increases that? Which players are not simply restoring SP with draughts/potions whenever it is efficient to do so?

There is a ridiculously tiny impact on "how many turns of Spirit Stance fit into the budget of one restorative" due to raising INT. Over the course of thousands of stamina being spent on arenas/grindfests/IW's/whatever you're doing, you might see a handful fewer spirit restoratives being used.

On the other hand, the impact is so trivial, that we could say that the increase in damage output from +1 STR instead will save you more.

So, can we stop second-guessing the advice? INT is useless to a melee player. We've deleted whole posts in the past for "risking confusing people" so are you going to delete yours and let us get on with waiting for Tenboro to decide this needs to be designed better?



This post has been edited by Cryosite: Jan 5 2018, 02:51

This could explain this variation in the coefficients obtained above (and in previous messages). And also because of two equipments with the same value of PXP0 present different numbers of rounds of IW, and also different values for the subsequent PXPs.

I didn't know that about rounds in IW, the wiki formulas suggest otherwise but also say they are only approximations.

In any case, I'd done a few stat computations including PXP0 before and like Scremaz said, they barely alter stats, that's why we usually ignore them. Fractional PXP0 even if existing would do so little I doubt it affects even the last decimal point of our base values.

I'm more inclined to guess that the stat fluctuations are random due to rounding. The overall general pattern of base values increasing by less than 2% damage is real, but I'm not sure it's not just an error in the popup or has some other explanation.

If you just do butcher predictions using the 2% rule and truncate the result almost always matches exactly with the actual damage value (at the equipment level). So I am still fairly accepting of the 2% figure. However if you do butcher predictions directly on the base rolls and try to match with what the popups show, truncation is not enough and real differences appear (for attack damage, the base rolls are uniquely more precise than the actual damage values).

Anyone using magicscore script??
Is that still working?

On the other hand, the impact is so trivial, that we could say that the increase in damage output from +1 STR instead will save you more.

I wouldn't be so sure, for me 1 STR (1H persona) brings an increase of damage of ~0.007%, and since the number of turns don't scale linearly with damage it's probably around a ~0.005% decrease in turns.
Basically with 1 more point of STR, on average, I can save 1 turn every 4 PFUDOR DwD.
If more spirit and spirit regeneration can save 1 mana draught every 4 PFUDOR DwD increasing INT it's already the best choice for me.

There is nothing inherently wrong in suggesting to spare 1 point from the big stats to get more spirit, at long as we are talking about 1H, I guess.

Anyone using magicscore script??
Is that still working?

No idea, but you can see the magic score with HV Utility.

This post has been edited by Sapo84: Jan 5 2018, 04:45

It's been a while since I've popped into this thread.

Just picked up a Holy Staff, so I'd like to make sure I'm building the armor set right.

• IW should be Penetrator and Spellweaver, right?
• On my non-prof pieces, if I have a choice between a 10% EDB Charged piece and a 80%+ EDB non-prefix piece, which is better overall? Radiant pieces are out of my price range.
• I'm planning to fully forge the Divine prof on this Staff and two prof pieces. I've calculated that my prof pieces should either be Gloves + Pants or Gloves + Cap. Could someone doublecheck my math?
• Other advice/tips/things I should expect differently from my current Elec setup during gameplay would be helpful.

Need +443 displayed Divine Proficiency - allows for Imperil-less play.

Lv. 443 Scale Factor = (1 + level / level_factor) = (1 + 443 / (250/7)) = 13.404
(Level Scaling page on Wiki)

Divine Warmage (hath perk) = +44.000

Forged Staff Base Prof = (6.18 * 1.342) = 8.294
(Advanced Advice)
Lv. 450 displayed Staff Prof = (8.294 * 13.404) = +111.172

Forged displayed Prof needed on other two armor pieces = (443 - 44 - 111.172) = +288
Divide by 1.342 to get unforged displayed Divine Prof needed = (288 / 1.342) = +214.60
Divide by Lv. 443 Scale Factor to get unforged base stat = (214.60 / 13.404) = 16.01

Lmax Gloves + Lmax Pants = (7.5 + 9.09) = 16.59
Lmax Gloves + Lmax Cap = (7.5 + 15.79) = 15.79

• IW should be Penetrator and Spellweaver, right?

It's the best combination.
Spellweaver is less useful if you're only doing arenas, Penetrator 5 is instead a must.

• On my non-prof pieces, if I have a choice between a 10% EDB Charged piece and a 80%+ EDB non-prefix piece, which is better overall? Radiant pieces are out of my price range.

They would be equally bad.
I would consider non-prefix only if they have nearly peerless EDB (75+% mystic is another good alternative).
Charged I would say try to get at least ~40% EDB.

• I'm planning to fully forge the Divine prof on this Staff and two prof pieces. I've calculated that my prof pieces should either be Gloves + Pants or Gloves + Cap. Could someone doublecheck my math?

Math is not that useful since you can get your natural prof above your level.
Anyway, see what you can find and consider also shoes + pants or shoes + robe.

• Other advice/tips/things I should expect differently from my current Elec setup during gameplay would be helpful.

Not really, but consider that no-imperil holy is nearly 1 full level harder than imperil elemental (most of the difference is due to imperil short cast time).

So, can we stop second-guessing the advice? INT is useless to a melee player.

yes. sorry about that.

How can I get the "precursor artifact" and other artifacts more often in battle? What training that I have to complete? I really confused when I see "scavenger" , "luck of the draw" , and "quartermaster". The thing that I'm sure on is "archeologist", but it's expensive....

And what about to get "legendary --" or "peerless --" equipment more often? How can I raise the drop chance?

Actually I'm a bit confuse read the do/don'ts...

Thank you

This post has been edited by igs88: Jan 5 2018, 08:58

How can I get the "precursor artifact" and other artifacts more often in battle? What training that I have to complete? I really confused when I see "scavenger" , "luck of the draw" , and "quartermaster". The thing that I'm sure on is "archeologist", but it's expensive....

And what about to get "legendary --" or "peerless --" equipment more often? How can I raise the drop chance?

Actually I'm a bit confuse read the do/don'ts...

Thank you

Chances are low to get a peerless drop. You just need to play a lot. What you can do:
1. Play as high as possible difficulty to get better drops, and play a lot!
If you really want to spend credits on training, you can - for artifacts:
2. Raise archaeologist until you can't afford it anymore (credit sink warning: long payback time)
3. Raise Scavenger until you can't afford it anymore (credit sink warning: long payback time)
and for equip:
4. Raise Quartermaster until you can't afford it anymore (credit sink warning: long payback time)

But better equip so you can achieve 1. is higher priority.

This post has been edited by DJNoni: Jan 5 2018, 09:04