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I don't agree with this. I can clear all arenas (except the 400 and 500 ones, obviously) on PFUDOR pretty comfortably but for PFUDOR random encounters I have to play very carefully and can even get fucked kind of hard if it's an encounter with a lot of enemies and sleep misses. Point being, I think REs are difficult if you're a low level melee user.

It's still worth it. RE have by FAR the best chances for good drops. Not only is the droprate higher, the equipment droprate among drops is also higher, AND you have a much higher chance for GOOD equip, too. In RE @pfudor you should get about 1 legendary every 100. As far as time efficiency goes, it goes without saying, that this is the best way.
But there's even more. More exp, a bonus to the credits possibly dropped by monsters, higher artifact and token droprate... it's all there.

While some of this applies to every difficulty, pfudor does obviously affect exp, money drops and equipment quality. And especially when it comes to equip, if you are "low level" (as in at the very least below 400), REs are your absolutely best friend. Especially if your dwd luck is like mine, where the legendary clear bonus rate is way below 10%.


If you can really clear all arenas on pfudor, you can clear REs on pfudor. If necessary, weaken them all and blast them with the orbital friendship cannon. But really, they are on the exact same 100% power as the enemies in arenas are. I usually like to weaken things in REs anyway because they give good exp and as such proficiency, which I lag behind on deprecating. (367 vs. 408 on supportive, thanks to passive spells)

If you can really clear all arenas on pfudor, you can clear REs on pfudor.

I can and do clear REs on PFUDOR but this isn't about me. The point of my post is that I think it's a mistake to push difficulty specifically on REs, ie use a higher difficulty setting for REs than you do for arenas, because they are already harder than arenas and you'll be more likely to fail.

I'm currently using 2 handed at Hell difficulty for arena runs, and 1 handed wakizashi and shield with IWBTH difficulty for RE. Am I distributing points badly and how should I go about distributing them in the future?

[i.gyazo.com] Stat distribution

This post has been edited by bekyuubi: Nov 18 2021, 17:48

I can and do clear REs on PFUDOR but this isn't about me. The point of my post is that I think it's a mistake to push difficulty specifically on REs, ie use a higher difficulty setting for REs than you do for arenas, because they are already harder than arenas and you'll be more likely to fail.

From my personal experience. Without IA for haste and spark, it could be a struggle to stay alive after activate all buffs, and there's no remaining OC from previous round like in AR, so I could only recommend players who already active IAs up their difficulty for RE.

This post has been edited by SIRIUSs: Nov 18 2021, 16:12

I don't agree with this. I can clear all arenas (except the 400 and 500 ones, obviously) on PFUDOR pretty comfortably but for PFUDOR random encounters I have to play very carefully and can even get fucked kind of hard if it's an encounter with a lot of enemies and sleep misses. Point being, I think REs are difficult if you're a low level melee user.

There are two main reasons RE feels harder for mid-low level player.
1. The monster count is not capped like in the arena (there is hardly any round with 9 or more monster in the arena while you could meet 10 monsters in RE as early as lvl 100).
2. The buff is not activated at the start of the battle, particularly for people who have no IA. (10 monsters attacking together could easily kill anyone without spirit shield/SoL)

The easy "fix" is look the monster numbers and use scrolls instead of buffing with magic if you think that the number is a bit too much.

I can and do clear REs on PFUDOR but this isn't about me. The point of my post is that I think it's a mistake to push difficulty specifically on REs, ie use a higher difficulty setting for REs than you do for arenas, because they are already harder than arenas and you'll be more likely to fail.

10b mentioned once that with only 2.2% of share of battles compared to other modes, RE still hold more than 45% of legendary drop. It might be an old data and arena 400 and 500 implemented in the mean time, but drop rate haven't changed much (if not at all) so I believe the number still relevant to some extent.
In a long run, not trying to get the most in there is a lose to both your exp and drop rate. It might feel harder but it is still just a short one round battle.
Even if you could only win 2 of every 3 fight there I believe knocking it up one difficulty up is more profitable than taking a safer approach.

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Nov 18 2021, 16:56

The easy "fix" is look the monster numbers and use scrolls instead of buffing with magic if you think that the number is a bit too much.

I admit I overlooked using scrolls to activate buffs without using a turn, but in practice I don't think this will help low level (we are talking around lvl 150) players that much. Unless they pay a large training fee (30k is a lot at that point), they can only take one type of scroll into battle so there will still be a few turns of set-up. Not to mention they will likely have to buy the scrolls from other players.

In a long run, not trying to get the most in there is a lose to both your exp and drop rate. It might feel harder but it is still just a short one round battle.
Even if you could only win 2 of every 3 fight there I believe knocking it up one difficulty up is more profitable than taking a safer approach.

You say in the long run, but how long is that? Progression is fast early on and it won't be long until they will be strong enough to clear on PFUDOR. Is struggling for clears on a slightly higher difficulty really worth it? From the statistic Tenboro gave it sounds like just clearing REs is the most important thing so the aim should be completing every RE.
You say it might feel harder but it is still just a short round, but we've established that REs are simply harder already without increasing the difficulty setting. Encouraging someone to then go and make it harder still just seems reckless.
To be clear, I don't think people should be discouraged from trying higher difficulties. I think they should be using a difficulty they can manage. If they can clear a RE on a certain difficulty, they should probably be doing arenas on that difficulty too. If anything I think the advice should have been to not get complacent with lower difficulties.

I've been looking over the Hath perks and have been thinking about investing into the Thinking Cap section. Though I remember reading somewhere that I shouldn't level up too quickly.

Should I spend my hath to get more experience per battle or should I look to other perks to invest in?

I've been looking over the Hath perks and have been thinking about investing into the Thinking Cap section. Though I remember reading somewhere that I shouldn't level up too quickly.

Should I spend my hath to get more experience per battle or should I look to other perks to invest in?

Some say it's better to remain below lv400 for a longer, because your equipment drops will have a better changce of selling. I personally don't like that strategy, but to each his own.

However, for you, at your level, slowing down level-up has absolutely no use. At lv500 you'll get access to the Secret Pony Level and ponyslayer title, and you can work on your porficiency above 500 with assimilator. I'd say go for it!

I'm currently using 2 handed at Hell difficulty for arena runs, and 1 handed wakizashi and shield with IWBTH difficulty for RE. Am I distributing points badly and how should I go about distributing them in the future?

[i.gyazo.com] Stat distribution

I don't claim to be an expert on this but no one else has replied yet so here goes.
Dexterity gives accuracy and if your accuracy is below 200% it isn't high enough. Probably try to keep this equal with strength.
I don't know if you're using light or heavy armour, but agility is less useful if you're using heavy because your dodge chance will be ass no matter what. It's probably about right at that ratio but consider increasing it if you need more survivability. Endurance is probably also fine.
You aren't using magic to deal damage, so you don't need intelligence. It does give some spirit, which is nice, and the early levels are cheap so you might as well keep it as it is.
Wisdom seems a little low. I expect you run out of MP quite quickly, but maybe you aren't using a lot of spells yet. Consider increasing it.
In general, increase attributes that will stop you dying if you need it, otherwise increase your damage.

I can and do clear REs on PFUDOR but this isn't about me. The point of my post is that I think it's a mistake to push difficulty specifically on REs, ie use a higher difficulty setting for REs than you do for arenas, because they are already harder than arenas and you'll be more likely to fail.

I kinda disagree about RE being harder than arena, though i think my opinion based on getting IA 2 asap back then...

And my reasoning to recommend upping the RE difficulty mostly have already explained by Fudo and others, so I don't have anymore to add...
Lets just stop and agree to disagree here... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'm currently using 2 handed at Hell difficulty for arena runs, and 1 handed wakizashi and shield with IWBTH difficulty for RE. Am I distributing points badly and how should I go about distributing them in the future?

[i.gyazo.com] Stat distribution

Your stat distribution is quite good enough from what I see, though I prefer higher DEX over STR...
Maybe some people have different opinion but IMO DEX just gives more benefit than STR for melee...

AGI maybe a bit too low, even for 1H standard, but it still easy to fix in the future...
Ideally, 1h will have total AGI equal to their lv or a bit lower...
This is to get as many pmit from it while still having 0 attack speed...
You could also get away with even higher AGI at lower level, but from around lv. 300, i think it's better for total AGI=level...
For other melee style, they usually have even higher AGI because they're squishier than 1h...

As for WIS, I've been told in the past that the end game goal is to have at least 20% resist, so that's 500 WIS at lv. 500...
You don't need to worry about it now, just add more when you feels your mana is not enough...

Finally about INT...
The only benefit for melee is to inc. your base SP a little...
It sounds nice for 1H, more SP means more permastance time...
And then you realize that the other requirement for permastance is overcharge which usually depleted after using OFC... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
As for spells like SS and SoL which consume SP, they're calculated by percentage of your base SP...
The higher your base SP, the higher they will cost...
But it cost very little compared to other stats so some people still add it...
In my case, I have 0 INT (+a few from PA bonus) and don't have any SP problem... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by Greshnik: Nov 19 2021, 13:30

As for spells like SS and SoL which consume SP, they're calculated by percentage of your base SP...

I'm afraid we're going to be disagreeing again. The SP cost of SS is overwhelmingly based off how much damage is absorbed so more SP is objectively better. Take a look, the numbers on the left are how much damage SS absorbed, the numbers on the right are how much SP was consumed.
1678 -> 19
2812 -> 32
3444 -> 40
2635 -> 30
1160 -> 13
5502 -> 63
1880 -> 22
10533 -> 95
3538 -> 41
2461 -> 28
4163 -> 48
6986 -> 80
8162 -> 94

I'm afraid we're going to be disagreeing again. The SP cost of SS is overwhelmingly based off how much damage is absorbed so more SP is objectively better. Take a look, the numbers on the left are how much damage SS absorbed, the numbers on the right are how much SP was consumed.
1678 -> 19
2812 -> 32
3444 -> 40
2635 -> 30
1160 -> 13
5502 -> 63
1880 -> 22
10533 -> 95
3538 -> 41
2461 -> 28
4163 -> 48
6986 -> 80
8162 -> 94

AFAIK it still calculated by how much base SP you have...

Spirit Damage = Base_SP * SS_AP_Damage * MIN( (Damage - Max_HP * SS_AP_Damage) / (Max_HP * SS_AP_Damage * 3) , 1)
(SS_AP_Damage = percentage of damage required for Spirit shield to kick in)

Note: This formula works in such way that increasing base spirit points (e.g. by increasing STR primary attribute or through the Suffusive Spirit hath perk) increase the spirit cost of Spirit Shield (and Spark of Life) proportionately.

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Spells#spirit

So the more base SP you have, the more SS and SoL will cost...
The only exception is slotting SP Tank ability, which only increase your max SP but not your base SP...

Or does the formula changed without me knowing it???

This post has been edited by Greshnik: Nov 19 2021, 14:41

AFAIK it still calculated by how much base SP you have...

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Spells#spirit

So the more base SP you have, the more SS and SoL will cost...
The only exception is slotting SP Tank ability, which only increase your max SP but not your base SP...

Or does the formula changed without me knowing it???

It does not matter that the cost is affected by base SP. Let's have a look at some numbers.
I have around 14k HP and around 850 spirit, with a x1.7 multiplier from Spirit Tank so 500 base SP. Let's say I get hit for a big 15k damage.
I lose 15k*0.2=3k HP and the remaining 12k is absorbed as 500*0.2*(15k-14k*0.2)/(14k*0.2*3) = 145 SP damage. That's ~17% of my max SP.
Now let's say I have 500k base spirit. The 15k damage now deals 3k HP and 145k SP damage. That's ~17% of my max SP. There is no change there, increasing base SP does not increase the SP cost as a percentage of the total. Since draughts and potions restore a percentage of your SP, it's fine.

So anyway, it looks like I was wrong in saying that more SP is better for SS, but it isn't worse either since it's all linear. And since Spirit Stance has a flat cost, having more SP is just better for that.

As a complete noob to this game, I've somehow struggled my way to Level 37, nowhere close to the benchmark mentioned in the 1st few posts haha

Any advice on what I'm missing? Been doing the Arena, couple of Item Worlds, not sure what else I can do to proceed

As a complete noob to this game, I've somehow struggled my way to Level 37, nowhere close to the benchmark mentioned in the 1st few posts haha

Any advice on what I'm missing? Been doing the Arena, couple of Item Worlds, not sure what else I can do to proceed

Random Encounters! Also, try a bit higher difficulty as soon as you know what you're doing

As a complete noob to this game, I've somehow struggled my way to Level 37, nowhere close to the benchmark mentioned in the 1st few posts haha

Any advice on what I'm missing? Been doing the Arena, couple of Item Worlds, not sure what else I can do to proceed

Visit https://e-hentai.org/news.php every 30 minutes for a random encounter (https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Random_Encounter). You'll see something near the top of the page saying "click here for a fight". The first time in a day you visit that page it will be something different though. Doing a few of these might level you up enough for another arena to use your stamina up in, and if you still have tons of stamina then doing item world until you get a weapon up to level 10 could be good.
You could also try out isekai mode by clicking the "Persistent" text in the top right corner.
Also, read the wiki if you haven't already.

I admit I overlooked using scrolls to activate buffs without using a turn, but in practice I don't think this will help low level (we are talking around lvl 150) players that much. Unless they pay a large training fee (30k is a lot at that point), they can only take one type of scroll into battle so there will still be a few turns of set-up. Not to mention they will likely have to buy the scrolls from other players.

Did you know that you could put scrolls on the normal item slot? Also, you don't have to use scroll if there is only 5 or 6 or less enemies, right, so its not like you ALWAYS have to use the scroll.
And honestly, I never use scroll on RE, not now, nor back then when I was low level, and I did push my difficulty higher back then. Died couple of times, but due to that I could actually know my limitation and how to progress from there. Scrolls is a method to cheat that limit (they not only have no cast time but also give higher buff bonus).
That being said just like that you could do lower round level arena on higher difficulty, anybody should be able to play RE one or even two difficulty higher than their usual arena difficulty, moreover if they are still bellow IWBTH as anything below that actually doesn't differ that much compared to between IWBTH and PF.

You say in the long run, but how long is that? Progression is fast early on and it won't be long until they will be strong enough to clear on PFUDOR.

for low level, one day? one week?, time is relative, and as you said, progression is fast early on. For low level (pre 100) doing RE on the high difficulty could net them one whole level.
With the limited amount of arena round available for low level player, they are actually the one who get more benefit by aiming for the most reward they could reap from RE.

Is struggling for clears on a slightly higher difficulty really worth it?

For RE, I believe yes. and struggling is a strong word, extra effort is more like it.

From the statistic Tenboro gave it sounds like just clearing REs is the most important thing so the aim should be completing every RE.

The important thing is getting the best reward you could have, clearing the RE is the means, putting more effort in the right place is how it should be done.
And I believe "completing every RE" is more a problem if we're talking about actually doing all 24 allocated daily RE, as I believe more people missed those instead of losing in RE due to increasing the difficulty.

You say it might feel harder but it is still just a short round, but we've established that REs are simply harder already without increasing the difficulty setting.

nope, never agree on that, I only said "RE feels harder", in the bottom line RE is just like suddenly thrown into late round arena without preparation with sometimes one or two extra monsters (last time I check you fight 8 monsters round as early as lvl 50 arena with 6 monsters round as the norm for lvl 100+ arena).
Those who are unprepared will get rekt and think it is hard, but it is actually not.
The monsters is the same, the battle is the same, if you ask me if it is harder compared to the arena, I would say it is actually easier. I mean, it is just one round battle of the same thing against same thing; not having buff up indeed complicate thing, but you can prepare for that. I would even say that even if you despise 1h to the core due to how slow it is, get a superior or exquisite shield especially so you could do RE on higher difficulty is an effort that could reward you well. Who cares about slow if it is just one round, right?

Encouraging someone to then go and make it harder still just seems reckless. To be clear, I don't think people should be discouraged from trying higher difficulties. I think they should be using a difficulty they can manage.

Encouraging people to try to push their limit where it matters is what it is about.

If they can clear a RE on a certain difficulty, they should probably be doing arenas on that difficulty too.

Thats where I think you're mistaken. Being able to clear RE on a certain difficulty doesn't meant they could do the same to arena on that difficulty.
The most basic problem of HV is survivability and long battle could put a stretch on your spell and potion cooldown. You might be able clear one round with one potion, but that doesn't meant you could clear two round with two potions as the potion cooldown might not over yet.

As a complete noob to this game, I've somehow struggled my way to Level 37, nowhere close to the benchmark mentioned in the 1st few posts haha

Any advice on what I'm missing? Been doing the Arena, couple of Item Worlds, not sure what else I can do to proceed

Do Random Encounter, try doing higher difficulty and repeat doing the highest you could clear.
HVutils have RE timer and option to beep you when RE is ready as long as you keep one HV or E-H window open (iinm it even save the link so you don't miss it while you are browsing the gallery)

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Nov 20 2021, 14:45

Did you know that you could put scrolls on the normal item slot?

I did not. It's good to know but does not really change my point, you start with 5 inventory slots and will probably fill 4 with health and mana potions and draughts. Inventory slots are cheaper than scrolls slots so many they'll buy one or two early on, then it's a choice between scrolls or elixirs.

For low level (pre 100) doing RE on the high difficulty could net them one whole level.

Provided that they manage clear it. Alternately, they could be sure to clear it on one difficulty level lower for 50%-75% of the exp and some loot.

and struggling is a strong word, extra effort is more like it.

It was intentional. If you're only winning around 2 out of 3 REs you must be running out of supplies during or getting fucked by luck. I'd call that a struggle.

And I believe "completing every RE" is more a problem if we're talking about actually doing all 24 allocated daily RE, as I believe more people missed those instead of losing in RE due to increasing the difficulty.

Perhaps a poor choice of words. I meant completing every attempted RE. I don't expect people to be waking up in the night every 30 minutes to be maximally efficient.

nope, never agree on that, I only said "RE feels harder",

Yet you described the ways in which it is harder. And it looks like Sirius agrees with me.

in the bottom line RE is just like suddenly thrown into late round arena without preparation with sometimes one or two extra monsters

I really think you're understating the importance of the lack of preparation.

get a superior or exquisite shield especially so you could do RE on higher difficulty

That's a fair point, and indeed it looks like that's what the guy ended up doing. It's certainly something to mention when talking about REs.

Encouraging people to try to push their limit where it matters is what it is about.

Right but my problem is with saying to specifically do REs on a harder difficulty than arenas.

The most basic problem of HV is survivability and long battle could put a stretch on your spell and potion cooldown. You might be able clear one round with one potion, but that doesn't meant you could clear two round with two potions as the potion cooldown might not over yet.

I figured out a way around this while pushing tower floors. Keep the last monster of the round asleep and repeatedly scan it until cooldowns end. It's pretty miserable to do for a lot of floors back to back, but to recover for the last few floors of an arena it's quite useful.
Of course maintaining sleep for a while might be tricky for a low level, I haven't tried it like that.

Random Encounters! Also, try a bit higher difficulty as soon as you know what you're doing

Absolutely True. From Level 100 above, most of my EXP comes from RE.
Difficulty Hell on Lv <250
Nintendo and IWBTH on Lv<280
PFUDOR from Lv 280 onwards (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)