[X] My Assistant

Yes, it is definitely a grind. I was mainly trying to get a quantitative idea of how much of a grind. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Though people used to say that about getting to level 500 (which had the exp requirements reduced). Or getting Follower of Snowflake (which got changed to do something slightly more useful). Or finishing all the trainings. Etc.

Prof even got changed to be exp-based, though I'm not sure whether that made it easier or harder to grind. (Gone are the days where you could grind staff prof by hitting the FSM for six hours straight.)

The arenas can be more or less discounted from the equation because you're locked to daily attempts; the IWs would be an order of magnitude. You can estimate the amount of exp required using HVUtils (from 590-600 is about 23 trillion exp, assuming Assimilator 25), but I don't know exactly how much you're getting from IWs - for me, that'd be somewhere around 9,200 IW runs, but you have more awards than me so you can probably cut that by about 1000).

The old prof system was trivial to cap, the new one is insane at the top end, but way easier to get started (thanks to dawns, you'll never be starting from 0).

Part of the reason it's so nuts is because exp per monster stops scaling at level 300. That might change at some point (which would close to double exp for a level 500 player), but I don't know if/when that will actually happen.

Ah, I see. So it would look like this?
name: 'persona 1', settings: {startRoundWithHover: false, etc, etc},

Also, do I need to set the name attribute to match the in-game persona name or is it just the first persona slot, then the 2nd, etc. irrespective of the name?

I'm level 312. I also haven't done any upgrades yet so that's also a big difference.
How does 1h mage work?
Is it just replacing the staff with waki of battlecaster+shield? Are force shields' extreme interference ok or would I need a buckler of barrier? Should I go for more prof from armor to hit the effective prof goals since 1h lack prof bonus?

Yes

You don't need to do

Yes just replace, force shield also works if you use featherweight,
I personally don't suggest 1H-mage in isekai arena cuz it's mana consumption is terrible, you'll be forced to use Aether or Elixir, which is rare/expensive. But if you don't care, that's a good choice for easy and quick PF arena farming.

The arenas can be more or less discounted from the equation because you're locked to daily attempts; the IWs would be an order of magnitude. You can estimate the amount of exp required using HVUtils (from 590-600 is about 23 trillion exp, assuming Assimilator 25), but I don't know exactly how much you're getting from IWs - for me, that'd be somewhere around 9,200 IW runs, but you have more awards than me so you can probably cut that by about 1000).

The old prof system was trivial to cap, the new one is insane at the top end, but way easier to get started (thanks to dawns, you'll never be starting from 0).

Part of the reason it's so nuts is because exp per monster stops scaling at level 300. That might change at some point (which would close to double exp for a level 500 player), but I don't know if/when that will actually happen.

For whatever reason, I hadn't realized prof tracks the standard level exp curve. This isn't as bad as I thought. I get ~13 billion exp/IW, so 23 trillion exp is "only" ~1800 IW runs.

Thanks. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

For whatever reason, I hadn't realized prof tracks the standard level exp curve. This isn't as bad as I thought. I get ~13 billion exp/IW, so 23 trillion exp is "only" ~1800 IW runs.

Thanks. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ah, right, I forgot about your toplist positions (and I presume you're playing above 80 stamina too) - that'd do the trick (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Hang in there with the grind & I'll welcome you to the 600 club once you make it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Ah, I see. So it would look like this?
name: 'persona 1', settings: {startRoundWithHover: false, etc, etc},

Also, do I need to set the name attribute to match the in-game persona name or is it just the first persona slot, then the 2nd, etc. irrespective of the name?

I'm level 312. I also haven't done any upgrades yet so that's also a big difference.
How does 1h mage work?
Is it just replacing the staff with waki of battlecaster+shield? Are force shields' extreme interference ok or would I need a buckler of barrier? Should I go for more prof from armor to hit the effective prof goals since 1h lack prof bonus?

1h mage, yes waki of battlecaster, buckler of battlwcaster or barrier, you don't need 0.8 prof factor. 2 prod pieces should do

1h mage, yes waki of battlecaster, buckler of battlwcaster or barrier, you don't need 0.8 prof factor. 2 prod pieces should do

Thanks for the advice. I'm giving it a try and my survival problems are completely fixed.
However, with significantly less damage per cast and losing coalesced mana means I have to drink mana potions on cooldown plus several mana elixirs to get through an arena. I'm leaning toward sticking with the staff and playing on lower difficulty until I have better mage gear.

Nezu's mage guide seems to indicate hitting the prof factor is very important. Why is it not the case here? How do I weight the value of getting closer to prof goal vs getting more EDB?

This post has been edited by Jake643: Jul 18 2021, 09:34

Thanks for the advice. I'm giving it a try and my survival problems are completely fixed.
However, with significantly less damage per cast and losing coalesced mana means I have to drink mana potions on cooldown plus several mana elixirs to get through an arena. I'm leaning toward sticking with the staff and playing on lower difficulty until I have better mage gear.

Nezu's mage guide seems to indicate hitting the prof factor is very important. Why is it not the case here? How do I weight the value of getting closer to prof goal vs getting more EDB?

Why exactly isn't clear, but the effect of prof factor is less prominent for 1h mage. Off course, full prof is still optimal in end state. But starting, it seems that less cure compensates. Or it is the stun from block. Or both. Mana? Yes use potions on cooldown. Not expensive. Also, I used 2 battlecasters. You could also use frugal . Don't be afraid of the mana consumption, it gets better at higher levels

Thanks for the advice. I'm giving it a try and my survival problems are completely fixed.
However, with significantly less damage per cast and losing coalesced mana means I have to drink mana potions on cooldown plus several mana elixirs to get through an arena. I'm leaning toward sticking with the staff and playing on lower difficulty until I have better mage gear.

Nezu's mage guide seems to indicate hitting the prof factor is very important. Why is it not the case here? How do I weight the value of getting closer to prof goal vs getting more EDB?

The math on 1H mage still agrees that hitting your prof factor goal is still generally optimal (even if you have to use two heavy-duty cotton pieces to do so, at the cost of the EDB from phases), although with a small amount of wiggle room - optimally (level 500, 600 prof, good quality equipment) 4+1 robe ends up narrowly beating out 3+2 gloves/shoes despite being a little under 0.7 prof factor.

Thanks for the advice. I'm giving it a try and my survival problems are completely fixed.
However, with significantly less damage per cast and losing coalesced mana means I have to drink mana potions on cooldown plus several mana elixirs to get through an arena. I'm leaning toward sticking with the staff and playing on lower difficulty until I have better mage gear.

Nezu's mage guide seems to indicate hitting the prof factor is very important. Why is it not the case here? How do I weight the value of getting closer to prof goal vs getting more EDB?

Staff-mage need to be offensive enough, kill mobs before they throw out the deathful SP attack to protect itself.
However for 1H-mage it's not a must, lack of attack power only cause slow speed, not survival issue.

For the Isekai mode, is it better to level up with the arena for exp before going into the Tower? Also, I'm still a little confused on what determines a player's placement within the Tower.

For the Isekai mode, is it better to level up with the arena for exp before going into the Tower? Also, I'm still a little confused on what determines a player's placement within the Tower.

The tower provide an increasing exp bonus for every floor you clear so do your daily tower clear before arena if you want more exp.

Your ranking is 1+n where n is the number of people having cleared an higher floor than you.

The tower provide an increasing exp bonus for every floor you clear so do your daily tower clear before arena if you want more exp.

Your ranking is 1+n where n is the number of people having cleared an higher floor than you.

Ooh... Is it possible to survive the higher leveled rounds of the tower? I am not getting great drops for armor and I'm still using superior grade power armor at this point.

Ooh... Is it possible to survive the higher leveled rounds of the tower? I am not getting great drops for armor and I'm still using superior grade power armor at this point.

I'm rank 1(along with everyone else who didn't miss a day) in the tower and it's still easy so far with magnificent shade armor.
I recommend buying magnificent armor from player shops in the isekai trade forums.

This post has been edited by Jake643: Jul 19 2021, 04:22

The math on 1H mage still agrees that hitting your prof factor goal is still generally optimal (even if you have to use two heavy-duty cotton pieces to do so, at the cost of the EDB from phases), although with a small amount of wiggle room - optimally (level 500, 600 prof, good quality equipment) 4+1 robe ends up narrowly beating out 3+2 gloves/shoes despite being a little under 0.7 prof factor.

So the preferred prof slot for 1h mage is robe???
Is there minimal prof for it??? (like 25%/50% prof or min. 9.00 base prof)
And what is the min prof for gloves/shoes for ele mage in case the staff has 0% prof???

I'm thinking of trying 1h mage before switch to staff to build up my prof...
I already have this Waki and this morning I found this Buckler in bazaar...
So then I need to find prof robe (maybe frugal since 1h mage don't need charged) and phase for the rest, right???
Which is better, mag radiant or plain leg phase???

And I confused with prof factor goal since wiki give conflicting info...
In the table the goal for ele mage is 0.79, but in the paragraph below the goal is 0.68 which afaik is the forum consensus...

So the preferred prof slot for 1h mage is robe???
Is there minimal prof for it??? (like 25%/50% prof or min. 9.00 base prof)
And what is the min prof for gloves/shoes for ele mage in case the staff has 0% prof???

Depends on your current prof. It only becomes better than gloves/shoes at ~580 base prof (so, pretty high...).

For ele mage with a 0% staff? I dunno - it's around 580 for shoes with a peerless staff, so I'd guess shoes aren't really ideal if your staff is that bad, though gloves might be doable around 585.

I'm thinking of trying 1h mage before switch to staff to build up my prof...
I already have this Waki and this morning I found this Buckler in bazaar...
So then I need to find prof robe (maybe frugal since 1h mage don't need charged) and phase for the rest, right???
Which is better, mag radiant or plain leg phase???

They're fine. Charged isn't bad for 1H mage, it may still work out better for you at low DD levels (though it's overkill at higher levels). I wouldn't use mags at all, but plain leg phase isn't really very good either.

And I confused with prof factor goal since wiki give conflicting info...
In the table the goal for ele mage is 0.79, but in the paragraph below the goal is 0.68 which afaik is the forum consensus...

Ignore that page and anyone who says 0.68 - they are wrong.

Ignore that page and anyone who says 0.68 - they are wrong.

0.68 works fine. Pretty sure I've even done full PFFEST with less than that. Granted that was years ago and monster are worst now. My current prof factor is only 0.746, and the only reason I'm not doing PFFESTs daily is I don't have time to do that and Isekai.

Depends on your current prof. It only becomes better than gloves/shoes at ~580 base prof (so, pretty high...).

Currently my base prof is only 331 without any eq, and I haven't buy the perk...
well, i'm thinking of base prof ~= lvl, so 1.1 with perk...

For ele mage with a 0% staff? I dunno - it's around 580 for shoes with a peerless staff, so I'd guess shoes aren't really ideal if your staff is that bad, though gloves might be doable around 585.

That's peerless staff with peerless cotton shoes/gloves??? Fully forged prof??? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
If it's that bad isn't it better to get cap/pants slot???

I'm thinking of worst case scenario if I get acceptable mdb+edb, but 0% prof redwood/willow...
So I want to know the slot and the min prof needed when I window shopping...

They're fine. Charged isn't bad for 1H mage, it may still work out better for you at low DD levels (though it's overkill at higher levels). I wouldn't use mags at all, but plain leg phase isn't really very good either.

I mean, charged are more expensive, right... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
So probably frugal to help the mana consumption or plain cotton in combination with plain/radiant phase...

Ignore that page and anyone who says 0.68 - they are wrong.

so the correct one are in the table, huh...
For a long time I thought 0.68 for imp ele, 0.8 for imp dark/holy, and 1 for non-imp dark/holy...
So the correct one is 0.8 for imp ele, and 1 for the others...

This post has been edited by Greshnik: Jul 19 2021, 07:04

That's peerless staff with peerless cotton shoes/gloves??? Fully forged prof??? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
If it's that bad isn't it better to get cap/pants slot???

I'm thinking of worst case scenario if I get acceptable mdb+edb, but 0% prof redwood/willow...
So I want to know the slot and the min prof needed when I window shopping...

I mean, charged are more expensive, right... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
So probably frugal to help the mana consumption or plain cotton in combination with plain/radiant phase...

so the correct one are in the table, huh...
For a long time I thought 0.68 for imp ele, 0.8 for imp dark/holy, and 1 for non-imp dark/holy...
So the correct one is 0.8 for imp ele, and 1 for the others...

0.8 is the best PF for imperil ele. but 0.7 is already acceptable, my set gives me PF = 0.71 without any survival issua in PFUDOR arena. Shoes can be an option.

But if you need best performance, full-forged Gloves/Cap would be better.

Redwood had more EProf than Willow, so your Cotton can be worse if you choose Redwood

Radiant is much more effective for 1H-mage than staff-mage, I only suggest Radiant 1H-mage, choose Aether Shard rather than Frugal if you have mana consumption problem.

0.68 works fine. Pretty sure I've even done full PFFEST with less than that. Granted that was years ago and monster are worst now. My current prof factor is only 0.746, and the only reason I'm not doing PFFESTs daily is I don't have time to do that and Isekai.

'Fine' is not the same as optimal, which is the problem with that page - it doesn't really clarify the difference. Not to mention 'fine' is pretty much always going to be someone's opinion - it's fine to do 5+0 with no prof at all, but you'll be slower and more miserable for doing it that way.

That's peerless staff with peerless cotton shoes/gloves??? Fully forged prof??? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
If it's that bad isn't it better to get cap/pants slot???

I've been trying to tell people this for ages but people are obsessed with old advice about what's 'optimal' based on someone's opinion years ago, without understanding the conditions for it. That advice page on the wiki has probably done far more damage than it's done good, for advice about mage gameplay.

Be aware of what's realistic to you and how you want to play. I recommend new mages to use robe as their prof slot (for elemental).

I'm thinking of worst case scenario if I get acceptable mdb+edb, but 0% prof redwood/willow...
So I want to know the slot and the min prof needed when I window shopping...

Redwood has a lot more prof, so if you're using that, the goals are a lot more accessible. But willow performs waaaaaaay better in fest, so if fest performance is important to you, you should build around that.

I mean, charged are more expensive, right... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
So probably frugal to help the mana consumption or plain cotton in combination with plain/radiant phase...

If you half-ass a mage build you will probably be disappointed by the results... there is no cheap and easy way to build a glass cannon. But you can at least get into arenas pretty accessibly these days - charged surtrs/niflheims really won't cost you much at all.

so the correct one are in the table, huh...
For a long time I thought 0.68 for imp ele, 0.8 for imp dark/holy, and 1 for non-imp dark/holy...
So the correct one is 0.8 for imp ele, and 1 for the others...

0.8 was once again 'good enough' in the eyes of the writer, years ago, when monsters were much, much, much lower level.

0.79 is specifically enough for imperil elemental mages. Everyone else should be using 1.0, yeah.

This post has been edited by Nezu: Jul 19 2021, 07:38

'Fine' is not the same as optimal, which is the problem with that page - it doesn't really clarify the difference. Not to mention 'fine' is pretty much always going to be someone's opinion - it's fine to do 5+0 with no prof at all, but you'll be slower and more miserable for doing it that way.

Optimal is for end game. Beginners advice should make sure there's path towards optimal, not tell them to achieve it immediately. It's not even possible to hit .78 with Peerless Robe and Willow and level=base prof.