[X] My Assistant

That's not quite how it works. Whenever you use the amnesia, it will reset all the potencies to zero, including the ones you like.

You can use amnesia shards and retry as many times as you like, but you will have to start from zero potencies every time. That is why it gets expensive to get a perfect item world.

I've never followed the standard monster lab advice, as I still only have 10 monsters. I've been fine with that as a personal preference thing, however lately I have been wondering if the standard advice might not be an absolute truth for everyone.

So I pose this question. Does a minimum or low PL monster pay itself off immediately? In other words, is the stuff it gives you (which is very little) worth more than the monster food and crystals it costs to feed it?

Does a monster continue to pay for itself for all PL from low to medium? I can imagine that at very low PL a monster may pay for itself because just a few crystals will make it full. But at low and medium PL the crystal food becomes expensive, and the monster is still basically giving you crap every 3 days.

There are external factors which can also shift the balance. For example, how much crystals cost. We are lucky that maybe they don't cost as much as they could. But imagine if crystals and food costed 10 times as much, then my guess would be that no low or medium level monster ever pays for itself. Thus arguably the best advice would be for the majority of casual players to never make any monsters.

Another external factor that varies with the player is how wealthy they are. If a player is very poor and spends all his money on other things, then he has zero credits for his monsters, and he cannot afford to feed them. Even if perhaps all his monsters (low PL or otherwise) gave him a slight profit, it would not be worth it for him to raise them.

I'm pretty sure minimum PL monsters are 100% worth it for the chance at bindings and rare-type materials on the minimum timer. You can delete them and create new ones if you're feeling especially parsimonious regarding crystal usage for morale. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

That's not quite how it works. Whenever you use the amnesia, it will reset all the potencies to zero, including the ones you like.

You can use amnesia shards and retry as many times as you like, but you will have to start from zero potencies every time. That is why it gets expensive to get a perfect item world.

In that case, is it better to always reset on lv1 potency first to get the potency you like then level it up to lv10 potency to see Juggernaut can become 5 or always try to lv 10 it first? What's the most effective method to at least get one potency of your choosing to 5?

That's a worry that should be had by those who have the dark descent hath perk. If you don't have it, it's better to pay for IW service and have the guy do that job for you.

In that case, is it better to always reset on lv1 potency first to get the potency you like then level it up to lv10 potency to see Juggernaut can become 5 or always try to lv 10 it first? What's the most effective method to at least get one potency of your choosing to 5?

The strategy differs a little depending on whether you have dark descent or not; that said, if you don't have it, you should either defer to an IW service, or send it to someone who does have the perk for resets. (HVUtils players with it can do it in one click if they're available, so it's not much trouble.)

For dark descent players chasing a single potency level 5: you'd normally do the first run on IWBTH to get it to level 2, and then reset if the desired potency isn't available. For chasing 2 potencies (eg butcher5 fatality4), you'd reset if you didn't get one of them in the first run, and then reset immediately if you get any wrong potencies (ie, if it ever becomes impossible to hit the target).

While chasing juggernaut, if you get a third potency it's generally best to reset and just try again, although if juggernaut's level 3 or above you might like to gamble on the 33% chance. At level 1 or 2, hitting level 5 on it is really, really unlikely.

I've never followed the standard monster lab advice, as I still only have 10 monsters. I've been fine with that as a personal preference thing, however lately I have been wondering if the standard advice might not be an absolute truth for everyone.

So I pose this question. Does a minimum or low PL monster pay itself off immediately? In other words, is the stuff it gives you (which is very little) worth more than the monster food and crystals it costs to feed it?

Does a monster continue to pay for itself for all PL from low to medium? I can imagine that at very low PL a monster may pay for itself because just a few crystals will make it full. But at low and medium PL the crystal food becomes expensive, and the monster is still basically giving you crap every 3 days.

There are external factors which can also shift the balance. For example, how much crystals cost. We are lucky that maybe they don't cost as much as they could. But imagine if crystals and food costed 10 times as much, then my guess would be that no low or medium level monster ever pays for itself. Thus arguably the best advice would be for the majority of casual players to never make any monsters.

Another external factor that varies with the player is how wealthy they are. If a player is very poor and spends all his money on other things, then he has zero credits for his monsters, and he cannot afford to feed them. Even if perhaps all his monsters (low PL or otherwise) gave him a slight profit, it would not be worth it for him to raise them.

Having a lot of monsters increases your chance at getting phazons and good bindings. Phazons are like 300k now. Even if you power level your 10 monsters to 2250 and have them fully chaosed I doubt you'll see a return soon. It costs a lot to level a monster. You could just buy the materials and bindings you need instead. That's why its better to have an army of low level monsters first then to level a few favorites. If you do it the opposite way you'd miss out on a lot of bindings and phazons.

That's a worry that should be had by those who have the dark descent hath perk. If you don't have it, it's better to pay for IW service and have the guy do that job for you.

The problem is I already soulbounded the equipment without IW-ing first. Newbie mistake...that's why I need to IW it myself (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

The strategy differs a little depending on whether you have dark descent or not; that said, if you don't have it, you should either defer to an IW service, or send it to someone who does have the perk for resets. (HVUtils players with it can do it in one click if they're available, so it's not much trouble.)

For dark descent players chasing a single potency level 5: you'd normally do the first run on IWBTH to get it to level 2, and then reset if the desired potency isn't available. For chasing 2 potencies (eg butcher5 fatality4), you'd reset if you didn't get one of them in the first run, and then reset immediately if you get any wrong potencies (ie, if it ever becomes impossible to hit the target).

While chasing juggernaut, if you get a third potency it's generally best to reset and just try again, although if juggernaut's level 3 or above you might like to gamble on the 33% chance. At level 1 or 2, hitting level 5 on it is really, really unlikely.

Gotcha. Thanks for the guide on IW-ing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . I can't send it to dark descent players anymore since I soulbound the equip before I even IW it hahaha

The problem is I already soulbounded the equipment without IW-ing first. Newbie mistake...that's why I need to IW it myself (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Gotcha. Thanks for the guide on IW-ing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . I can't send it to dark descent players anymore since I soulbound the equip before I even IW it hahaha

For the equipment that is soulfused, you can still do the first run on lower difficulty to get less potencies and reset if you get the potency that you don't want. I believe Hell is the highest difficulty that gives you 2 potencies for soulfused equipment.

I think some peerless and legendaries with high PXP0 can also use Nintendo for soulfused equipment, but I forget.

Potencies have a moderate gravitational effect: they will tend to stack with themselves (50% chance). That's another underlying reason for all the advice that was given. If getting Juggernaut is the only thing you care about, you reset if it didn't come first. If you demand two specific potencies though, you possibly wouldn't, as was mentioned.

Although what everyone has said about monsters isn't wrong, I did some more thinking about monsters and believe I was originally right, in a sense. If everyone made low level p-parsi-parsiminimus monster scavenge armies as per the general advice, then there would never exist any High-Grade Mats. Each High-Grade Metal and Cloth would be worth 100k or more.

Then, it would make sense for some players to take the plunge and raise monsters normally.

As the next step, slightly related yet also not, the decision of whether or not to chaos monsters (for very, very minimal financial returns) would be related to whether or not a player's overall spending habits leave him with enough credits to buy crystals to feed his monsters (which gets expensive if you don't keep deleting them). If you can't feed your monsters you will have excess chaos tokens, and it makes sense to chaos your monsters.

I think that's why I've taken the 10 monster approach I do. While perhaps technically not optimal given today's market, it's not absolutely wrong. When I was low level and had only 3 monsters, I was worse than poor, and I could not even afford to feed 3 monsters at the starting PL.

Therefore I started out with the extreme mentality of "if I can't feed my monsters, I won't make any more" and it resulted in me having a very slowly growing group of monsters (with moderate PL in the 200~1000 range). I also have an extreme, partially illogical mentality of not wanting to "waste" anything thus I can't ever delete a monster. Nor can I salvage equipments for materials ever, unless I cure my mental sickness.

Someone might also acquire this sickness if they love their monsters, or love their equipments, as I do my rapier. I love him too much to ever salvage for materials, so if I get another rapier I'll probably forge it with new materials. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

(I could salvage my rapier and buy it back but it will lose the imperfect item world, which I want to keep. I would be willing to salvage and buy back if it didn't erase the item world, actually).

...

...

Thanks for the answers!

I have a followup question on this though:

Undead, giants and arthropods are strong against mages, while celestials especially are strong against melee players.

What makes undead, giants and arthropods strong against mages and celestials strong against melee?

I see that undead, giants and arthropods all have high END, is that it? High health makes them harder to kill? But the celestials strong against melee really doesn't make sense to me, after all it has penalties to slash, pierce and crush attacks. Why are these types strong in the way you say?

Other questions I forgot to ask:

I currently face a bunch of monsters with "TW" in the name... what does that even mean? I feel like there's a joke that's over my head here.

Which arenas do you do given limited time and no tokens of blood? It takes me hours and hours to do all the 1-100 ones, and then that again to do the 100+ arenas. Should I just do the 1-100s that give 1000C rewards? I seem to get more tokens from the last two -100 arenas and the 100+ arenas... should I just do maybe just those? If you had only an hour to grind which would be the best given you're currently approaching level 300?


Thanks again!

Thanks for the answers!

I have a followup question on this though:
What makes undead, giants and arthropods strong against mages and celestials strong against melee?

I see that undead, giants and arthropods all have high END, is that it? High health makes them harder to kill? But the celestials strong against melee really doesn't make sense to me, after all it has penalties to slash, pierce and crush attacks. Why are these types strong in the way you say?

Other questions I forgot to ask:

I currently face a bunch of monsters with "TW" in the name... what does that even mean? I feel like there's a joke that's over my head here.

Which arenas do you do given limited time and no tokens of blood? It takes me hours and hours to do all the 1-100 ones, and then that again to do the 100+ arenas. Should I just do the 1-100s that give 1000C rewards? I seem to get more tokens from the last two -100 arenas and the 100+ arenas... should I just do maybe just those? If you had only an hour to grind which would be the best given you're currently approaching level 300?
Thanks again!

Undead, giants and arthropods all have high health (and arthropods have pretty decent resist), but they also have strong physical attacks. Mages don't care about the second MP attack often, and SP attack pretty much never, because monsters die before they can charge them. On the other hand, melee cannot kill that fast, and celestials have the highest hitting void-type attack as their SP attack, making them the most dangerous monsters in the game if not killed fast. (They also have a pretty good magic attack as their second MP attack, which 1H players are often slightly weaker against than physical attacks.)

The 'TW' series are property of a very rich player from, as far as I know, Taiwan (also guessing from Roc Chiang Kai-Shek as one of his other names, lol). A lot of the names are Chinese-langauge memes that don't necessarily make sense to westerners (another example of this would be 'Grass Mud Horse', google it if unfamiliar (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif))

For arenas: generally we advise 150 rounds -> 80 -> 100 for exp, although for general income I'd do 150>125>110>100 (schoolgirl trophies are valuable). Pretty much anything on the second page is valuable.

Mages don't care about the second MP attack often

1H players are often slightly weaker against [magical] than physical attacks.

Wait, do monsters have to perform their first MP attack before their second? I thought they just choose one randomly each time.

It's more the case that heavy armor players are (much) weaker against magical than physical attacks. It's just that 1H is made to go well with heavy. The 1H style itself is actually relatively stronger against magical than other melee styles due to block, which compensates for the magical weakness of heavy armor.

Lololo recently showed that DW+heavy is much faster than 1H, but I'm guessing that style is not defensively viable for low and medium level DW players. DW+light is roughly comparable to 1H (it might actually be slightly faster depending on what kind of mission and other factors).

You did say that 1H+heavy is slightly weaker against magical, which I'd say is right in the end. I just wanted to break down why.

Wait, do monsters have to perform their first MP attack before their second? I thought they just choose one randomly each time.

It's more the case that heavy armor players are (much) weaker against magical than physical attacks. It's just that 1H is made to go well with heavy. The 1H style itself is actually relatively stronger against magical than other melee styles due to block, which compensates for the magical weakness of heavy armor.

Lololo recently showed that DW+heavy is much faster than 1H, but I'm guessing that style is not defensively viable for low and medium level DW players. DW+light is roughly comparable to 1H (it might actually be slightly faster depending on what kind of mission and other factors).

You did say that 1H+heavy is slightly weaker against magical, which I'd say is right in the end. I just wanted to break down why.

As far as I know, they pick randomly, yeah, but the second attack costs more MP (corrected in the post below), so it's much less common for them to get enough to use it, and then actually pick it, for mages. (I think the chance is still lower, but I might be wrong.)

Light-style players are actually a little stronger against magic attacks - their evade is roughly equivalent to 1H block, but their resist is far greater, while magic mitigation ends up roughly similar.

Yeah, I'm not sure DW heavy is defensively viable for fest/IW at high level, and it's gonna be too poor for low level players, but it should be somewhat achievable for mid-level players now forging costs are a little more accessible for melee. (High-grade metals especially have gone through the floor - check HVMarket for that.)

That said, DW can hit some crazy parry using rapier slaughter / waki nimble (up to ~95% by my calculations), and between the physical/magical distribution and the great equalizer of spirit shield, that may be enough to offset it.

This post has been edited by lestion: Aug 26 2020, 08:15

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Monster_Lab#Skill_Editor

Monsters get skills when they are created, at PL 200, and at PL 400.

• If you don't create a skill for your monster, it will use the default skill
• Skills names must be between 3 and 30 characters long and contain only alphanumeric characters, hyphens, and spaces.
• The initial skill has the same damage type as the monster's main attack, and costs 50% MP.
• Monsters with a physical attack damage type gets a Physical type skill (which is boosted by DEX), while those with an elemental attack type get an Magical type skill (which is boosted by INT).
• Additional skills at PL 200 and PL 400 have following characteristics:
• The skill at PL 200 costs 50% MP and is more powerful than the initial skill.
• The skill at PL 400 costs 100% SP and is more powerful than both MP skills.
• Some monster classes can choose between physical and magical skills. The damage type can also be changed.

I am just now starting to add potencies to gear. I would like to ask which potencies are the best to aim for, for 1h/staff weapons and heavy/cloth armor?

Someone can answer this along with the previous poster's question since it's the same thematic: why do people consider 5 Fatality 4 Butcher the "perfect" rapier potencies for 1H? Since 1H is actually pretty slow in attacking and does a lot of parries that can't be criticals, isn't 5 on Butcher actually better?

Someone can answer this along with the previous poster's question since it's the same thematic: why do people consider 5 Fatality 4 Butcher the "perfect" rapier potencies for 1H? Since 1H is actually pretty slow in attacking and does a lot of parries that can't be criticals, isn't 5 on Butcher actually better?

For 1H? Yes, Butcher is better. Fatality is marginally better than Butcher for direct damage, but for the reasons you mentioned, definitely better to do B5F4.

I am just now starting to add potencies to gear. I would like to ask which potencies are the best to aim for, for 1h/staff weapons and heavy/cloth armor?

For staff Penetrator lvl 5 and either Spellweaver or Archmage depending on your preference. For armor you want Juggernaut lvl 5 on each piece and if you really want to be a masochist you can go for Jug 5 and Capacitor lvl 5. I don't think its that needed thou you're fine with just Jug 5.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Does anyone know the reason why Hath is so expensive lately? And by the way, that shouldn't have a little impact on the value of the GP?

Good thing I am not at all urged to buy Hath, because if not then it would be a problem to buy them right now.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Does anyone know the reason why Hath is so expensive lately? And by the way, that shouldn't have a little impact on the value of the GP?

Good thing I am not at all urged to buy Hath, because if not then it would be a problem to buy them right now.

probably just one dude that wants dd9
check the WTB to see who that dude is