[X] My Assistant

CR is the wood type. MDB is the suffix. So you'd want both. But a good CR staff with EDB suffix works as well. For holy it's the only way.

In fact, interestingly the math shows the EDB suffixes to be better than destruction (at least given some average MDB values for a high level player). It is only a very incredibly small difference, though, and of course Willow cannot roll any of the EDB suffixes so it's mostly immaterial.

this looks like an interesting hint.

which could be the proper conditions to use:
1. CR staffs?
2. MDB staffs?
3. EDB staffs?
4. prof staffs?

I wrote a big post about this in the research thread!

On points 1 and 4, I concur with Noni, but there are a few small cases where others are better.

Redwood of Destruction (and therefore EDB suffixes, too) are better for schoolgirl arenas, where the schoolgirls do not have very much resist, so the effect of CR there is mostly wasted.

Willow is obviously significantly better for imperil mages in IW/pfest/non-schoolgirl arenas, but for non-imperil mages... willow is still better for all but fire/cold where redwood is preferable.

Prof staffs are wasteful; you can get the prof better from cotton slots without losing so much firepower. A trade of phase EDB is far lower than the trade of staff EDB (with suffix) and, seeing the comparison between MDB and EDB staffs on damage, it can be inferred that the MDB from destruction is similarly valued. This is good news! Nobody wants to forge 5 phases if they can avoid it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Lower level players may need to make up more prof from their gear, but it is perfectly acceptable to use 3+2, or robe or pants slots for prof, since it will most likely last a pretty long time before making the switch to 4+1 with shoes. For the record, I do actually agree with Vincento that it's not super important to hit exactly 0.79 prof, and somewhere in the general vicinity is fine to play with.

Edit: and if you're interested in how much the CR contributes to imperil resists, I wrote a simulation for that and posted the results here!
edit 2: yes, you are entitled to use prof staffs if you find fun in trying alternate setups

This post has been edited by lestion: Nov 9 2019, 00:34

Is FUHROHDAH and Orbital Friendship Cannon damage dependent on equipment? If it is, is it more optimal to stack attack base damage or crit chance? Thanks.

Is FUHROHDAH and Orbital Friendship Cannon damage dependent on equipment? If it is, is it more optimal to stack attack base damage or crit chance? Thanks.

Well, dont know about fus ro dah, never used that myself, but the damage of your OFC depends on your physical damage, and yes, it also has the chance to crit iirc. But overall, it does imo not matter enough to build your set around it. Unless you fight against boss/legendary/schoolgirl monster the ofc is mostly a screen nuke anyway.

Is FUHROHDAH and Orbital Friendship Cannon damage dependent on equipment? If it is, is it more optimal to stack attack base damage or crit chance? Thanks.

I'm not 100% sure on fus ro dah but OFC is based on ADB like other melee skill.

Saw some guides saying I should find a PXP Item with a world and farm xp in there, is this much better than using grindfest? I'm pretty new (lvl 70) and still trying to figure stuff out so general tips too would be helpful ^^ managed to find out about the difficulty setting and am sitting on nintendo difficulty with a bunch of armors/weapon from the bazar. Did my arena but dont have any blood or chaos tokens for those things yet either

Saw some guides saying I should find a PXP Item with a world and farm xp in there, is this much better than using grindfest? I'm pretty new (lvl 70) and still trying to figure stuff out so general tips too would be helpful ^^ managed to find out about the difficulty setting and am sitting on nintendo difficulty with a bunch of armors/weapon from the bazar. Did my arena but dont have any blood or chaos tokens for those things yet either

at your level, you should not be worrying about max EXP - the best you can get is Random Encounters and all arena's. What we're talking about is for really high level players. Then, you'd be looking for a legendary shade or leather armor. Best PXP is 'arcanist'. But you don't need the best, just a good legendary leather will do. You, however, won't be able to survive IW or Fest at PFUDOR. You can get more EXP just by increasing the difficulty of Random Encounter.

The income for grinding for EXP is far less than the income for playing Random Encounters and Arena's. At your level, it's best to stick to that, and try to get stronger so you can manage higher difficulty.

Saw some guides saying I should find a PXP Item with a world and farm xp in there, is this much better than using grindfest? I'm pretty new (lvl 70) and still trying to figure stuff out so general tips too would be helpful ^^ managed to find out about the difficulty setting and am sitting on nintendo difficulty with a bunch of armors/weapon from the bazar. Did my arena but dont have any blood or chaos tokens for those things yet either

item world battle mode is a fair choice to farm exp after you finish all of your arena for the day and if you could do the high pxp one (350/360+).
for exp, it might be better than grindfest if you could finish all of them, as grindfest cost 1 extra stamina to enter (if you do low pxp one it'll have lower exp reward).

for low level, instead of spending them on IW/grindfest just keep your stamina at rested ( 80+ ) and use that to get tons of exp from random encounter on highest difficulty possible.
as far as I could remember if you push the difficulty high enough it could net 1 level per 1 RE until lvl 100-ish, even until lvl 200 I believe RE would still give you noticeable amount of exp for level up progress.

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Nov 9 2019, 16:15

I wrote a big post about this in the research thread!

Good research!

But I want to ask you some questions

Did you consider prof difference between redwood(or katalox) and willow(or Oak)?

Because if one is not 500lv and doesn't have 1.15~1.2 prof factor, willow users should wear at least gloves, or even caps to cover prof factor.

So I think having a static EDB is a little bit unfair to redwood. To solve this, you should fix prof factor at some point and change EDB by Staves(but definitely not too high because redwood easily go over enough prof factor),
or consider ele-mitigation reduction effect of prof factor(which is somewhat difficult and subjective because mobs have different ele-mitigation, so I think fixing prof factor would be easier)

Second thing is you should consider CR by prof factor. If both redwood and willow have same prof factor, it doesn't matter but in reality redwood easily go over 0.68 prof with shoes
but willow users won't sacrifice edb that much to get more than 0.68 prof. So considering these prof difference I think CR difference should be smaller than 13(I think 10 may be appropriate)

This post has been edited by Paruri: Nov 9 2019, 22:19

Good research!

But I want to ask you some questions

Did you consider prof difference between redwood(or katalox) and willow(or Oak)?

Because if one is not 500lv and doesn't have 1.15~1.2 prof factor, willow users should wear at least gloves, or even caps to cover prof factor.

So I think having a static EDB is a little bit unfair to redwood. To solve this, you should fix prof factor at some point and change EDB by Staves(but definitely not too high because redwood easily go over enough prof factor),
or consider ele-mitigation reduction effect of prof factor(which is somewhat difficult and subjective because mobs have different ele-mitigation, so I think fixing prof factor would be easier)

Second thing is you should consider CR by prof factor. If both redwood and willow have same prof factor, it doesn't matter but in reality redwood easily go over 0.68 prof with shoes
but willow users won't sacrifice edb that much to get more than 0.68 prof. So considering these prof difference I think CR difference should be smaller than 13(I think 10 may be appropriate)

Good questions!

In the case of those tables, the prof difference is not important. There are several reasons for this.

Let me make a few small corrections: prof factor benefits are capped at 1.0, and 0.68 is an old value with no explanation for why it was chosen. The correct value for imperil mages is 0.79 (where all enemy resistances will be reduced to 0).

One of the reasons I did not test redwood and willow more exhaustively is because for imperil mages, Willow will be faster than Redwood (except against schoolgirls) due to how many turns it saves on imperil resists, thanks to the depr prof and flat CR. You can see my imperil simulator if you're interested in knowing how many turns this might save in a grindfest.

In other words: the context of the research is mostly for non-imperil, or raw damage in ideal situations, because damage comparisons are not a good metric for efficiency as an imperil mage. The strength of deprecating counter-resist is too strong, regardless of any other factor (unless your damage is so low that it takes you many turns to kill things even after applying imperil...)

As a small addendum, Willow/Oak users cannot actually reach 1.0 with 4+1 robe slot, while Redwood/Katalox can reach it with pants. The difference is somewhere around 1% CR and 7 EDB because of these factors, which does not even come close to bridging the enormous gap between staffs.

This post has been edited by lestion: Nov 10 2019, 01:02

snip

Oh I see. I agree that willow is better except school girl and I didn't know the table is for non-imperil.

But still, I think you should consider prof factor and edb gap

1. As you said even with very high base prof willow can't reach 1.0 prof with 4+1, then you should additionally reduce edb due to wearing 3+2.(except the difference by staves)
Otherwise you should reduce final damage by less ele-mitigation effect because it's non-imperil, gap between 1.0 prof entirely leads to damage reduction in any situation.

This difference may be at least 4 base edb which is about 6-7% damage difference.
Considering 13% CR difference has about 4% damage difference against 22% CR monsters, we should not exclude this factor

2. Again if willow won't wear 3+2, he will have smaller prof factor than 1.0 prof so you should reduce CR differnce between willow and redwood.
Even with 1.2 base prof, peer Willow, Robe, about 0.97 prof is max and considering very few people have those conditions, I think the gap will be bigger.
Then you should consider the difference for accuracy of the research.


( I also agree that this 0.68 prof is somewhat random. Maybe because 0.68 prof = 0.68 ele-migation reduction?)

This post has been edited by Paruri: Nov 10 2019, 02:49

Oh I see. I agree that willow is better except school girl and I didn't know the table is for non-imperil.

But still, I think you should consider prof factor and edb gap

1. As you said even with very high base prof willow can't reach 1.0 prof with 4+1, then you should additionally reduce edb due to wearing 3+2.(except the difference by staves)
Otherwise you should reduce final damage by less ele-mitigation effect because it's non-imperil, gap between 1.0 prof entirely leads to damage reduction in any situation.

This difference may be at least 4 base edb which is about 6-7% damage difference.
Considering 13% CR difference has about 4% damage difference against 22% CR monsters, we should not exclude this factor

2. Again if willow won't wear 3+2, he will have smaller prof factor than 1.0 prof so you should reduce CR differnce between willow and redwood.
Even with 1.2 base prof, peer Willow, Robe, about 0.97 prof is max and considering very few people have those conditions, I think the gap will be bigger.
Then you should consider the difference for accuracy of the research.
( I also agree that this 0.68 prof is somewhat random. Maybe because 0.68 prof = 0.68 ele-migation reduction?)

Maybe? It could also possibly be that someone made a simple mistake and thought imperil reduced by 50 and not 40. Who knows!

Anyway - I will rerun the calculations to compare Willow and Redwood if we can agree on all factors that should be involved.

For one thing: we can try Willow + Robe vs Redwood + Pants, at peerless level, for non-imperil. I can also run them at 50% values, too.

We can also try 0.79 prof factor Willow + Shoes vs the 0.87 prof factor with Redwood + Shoes (this is the difference between peerless willow and redwood, and would be the case that favours Redwood most strongly).

Lower rolls on items should not affect the gap, but we can also try minimum prof roll on both staffs. At level 500, a minimum roll Willow user cannot reach 0.79 using shoes, and must use gloves (requiring 589-596 base prof, depending on gloves roll). Agreeing on what base prof is realistic, and also what prof roll % we should use for the cotton slot,would be important here. Using 0% rolls: cap requires 583, robe 557, and pants 570.

We would then use the chosen base prof (and cotton prof roll %) for Redwood also, and see what slot they could switch to. Using the above example, if we chose the robe (557) for Willow, then a min-roll Redwood could reach 0.79 using cap (requires 548), and gain a small EDB difference there.

Or I could consider average cases - 50% for both - and decide that the most reasonable option for Willow is pants (requiring 553), and allow Redwood to use shoes (557, not much higher)?

If you would like me to test for level 400 as well, you would need to decide on what a reasonable prof is for a level 400 mage to have.

Sorry, I know this post had a lot of numbers. I hope it is still easy to understand.

This post has been edited by lestion: Nov 10 2019, 03:56

Good! Actaully as long as those factors are included in the calculation, I don't care much about the specific gear level, because as you said, it's relative.

About the base prof, it's also your choice but considering non-500Lv users usually can't get over 1.1 base prof, I think 2 prof category: 1.1 prof, 1.2 prof will be nice for many people.

Good! Actaully as long as those factors are included in the calculation, I don't care much about the specific gear level, because as you said, it's relative.

About the base prof, it's also your choice but considering non-500Lv users usually can't get over 1.1 base prof, I think 2 prof category: 1.1 prof, 1.2 prof will be nice for many people.

I have completed the first part of the extended research, specifically regarding cases for damage for imperil. It maintains the previous data that Willow is still marginally better, although it is surprisingly close. Obviously, in real-play, Willow will therefore see considerably faster turn counts because of the deprecating counter-resist.

See the research here.

What do monster's primary attributes exactly do? Wiki mentions DEX boosting physical attack, INT magical attack, but it doesn't say anything specific. Could someone describe what each attribute does?

Also, is there a way to search this huge thread? Forum search function only gives me the topic, but... I really don't want to go through 600 pages to find one specific info. Wouldn't separate threads work better?

What do monster's primary attributes exactly do? Wiki mentions DEX boosting physical attack, INT magical attack, but it doesn't say anything specific. Could someone describe what each attribute does?

Well, the only really important thing that happens when you upgrade any monster attirbute and mitigation is increase their PL, so what stats every single attribute does actually increase isnt that important, because in the end it would be a bad idea just to increase those that increase the damage, because you thought that would help them to kill player. Because it would just cost you more crystals, without making them actually more dangerous.

Also, is there a way to search this huge thread? Forum search function only gives me the topic, but... I really don't want to go through 600 pages to find one specific info. Wouldn't separate threads work better?

Just set the "Result Type" on the right and the bottom of the options from "Show results as topics" to "Show results as posts". Tbh i dont even understand why "Show results as topics" is allways the default option in every forum i know, because i never actually wanted the results showed that way, i cant even think of a reason why someone would. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Also, is there a way to search this huge thread?

at the bottom left of this page, there's the 'Search Topic' field

hmm... 2 years already... should we archive this one and restart brand new again?

hmm... 2 years already... should we archive this one and restart brand new again?

But i didnt reached 2k post by now. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

hmm... 2 years already... should we archive this one and restart brand new again?

Did HentaiVerse version change since then? If not then the info should still be accurate.

Is there any info on the forums that'd specifically analyze how much damage/hp a monster get from stats compared to level? Also, are these mitigations only for show then?

And how about upgrades for chaos tokens? Are they also useless apart from decreasing morale drain?

Is there any info on the forums that'd specifically analyze how much damage/hp a monster get from stats compared to level? Also, are these mitigations only for show then?

Damage? Not that i would be aware of it. I mean scanning them just tells us so much and damage isnt included. Also that also depends on your own mitigations. And well, upgrading a monster is about the PL not really about their stats. I mean even a full PL 2250 monster isnt really a threat to a well equiped player. Except we are talking about the last few hundred rounds of a PFest, and even then is it mostly just pure luck which one of them get the kill when there even is one.

And how about upgrades for chaos tokens? Are they also useless apart from decreasing morale drain?

Well, chaos token no longer have any effect on moral drain, that was changed. Now they mostly increase Gift Factor. Scavenging gives additional 2.5% and any other upgrade gives 0.5%.