[X] My Assistant

Do they cast their T3s in rainbow style (that is, combining elements as possible)

Rainbow mage is not a thing in this game. A mage build his whole set around a single element.

A question about mages.

How do they time their spells and their cooldowns?

I assume they Imperil, first they spread Imperil around (not sure if other Dprs, like Weakness too) and then they:

1. Blast that T3.
2. Clean up with selected T2s and T1s.

That's for single element mages, like Holy and Dark. Non-Imperil I guess they skip the Imperil phase and they reset the CD for T3 just with T1s or something, if anything is left.
But how do multi-element mages act? The only ones that come to mind are Willow and Redwood users, particularly the latter ones.

Do they cast their T3s in rainbow style (that is, combining elements as possible) and T2 afterwards until the first CD expires, or they just stick to their favoured element like single element mages do?
Also, are mages usually capable of clearing a round of monsters in a single T3 blast? Or they need multiple spells? How effective is usually the first blast?

Imperil mage: 3x imperil, then start hover. Hover is just spell rotation t3, t2, t1. In practice, most rounds start with t3 because you imperil first which gives t3 some time to cool down. Never any other depr. spells needed, unless you are still weak on defence, then 'silence' can be of use against bosses.

Non-imperil mage: start hover directly, with spell rotation t3, t2, t1. That means that very often t3 is not your first attack. That does not matter for most battles. Only last 200 rounds of PFFEST. Then you can change settings in monsterbation during game, and take out t3 from spell rotation, and cast it manually at start of round. And for SG arena's, everyone plays imperil style of course.

Rainbow mage just does not work effectively. The monsters are just too strong against the elements unless you have sky-high proficiency and sky-high elemental bonus damage. You can try to play this way, but it is jut not feasible at high difficulties.

Single blast is almost impossible. If you have a lot of luck, and everything is imperilled, it is possible, but very rare. Gum+Vase helps a lot. Even with full gum and vase, sssss2 still needs 2500 rounds for PFFEST, which means 2.5 turns per round on average. without gum & vase, I believe he does about 6 turns on average.

This post has been edited by DJNoni: Aug 30 2019, 10:22

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Rainbow mage is something existed far long ago but not current version.
Elemental mage work same as what you said like dark/holy mages.
You can blast all imperiled monster with single T3 if lucky, but it's relatively rare case.
Usually you need 2~4 shots for a round.

So it's better to cast a T2 or a T1 from your own element than casting a T3 of a different element, even if your whole set is geared for one element?

Also, the elemental effects of reducing resistance by 25% aren't that good after all?

And yeah, I was thinking of a Rainbow mage with a set that spread EDBs for 4 elements, until I saw the Spell Damage formula and how EDB influences it.

How come one could want to switch from holy to imp dark?

I have no doubts regarding Imp Dark being powerful and capable of one-shotting the entire party quite frequently and reliably, but it's the number of turns / game action time it requires to do so that leaves me with doubts about it being better than simply brute forcing as non-imp Holy. I mean, it takes at the very least 4 turns for Imp Dark to clear a round (3 Imperil + 1 Ragnarok). No idea about the actual action time, I have never measured that and the wiki is very lacking regarding this matter.

Do non-imped monsters with 25% resistance against holy left (read: 1.0 prof factor against Celestials, Elementals, Mechanoids, Sprites) take that many hits before dying?
Or is it that the cooldowns for Paradise Lost and Banishment are problematic, due to randomness, for non-imp holy?
Or is it that these 4 turns of Imp Dark take less action time than 3 Holy spells?
Or is it that non-imp Holy requires one to go full Radiant to blast with enough power, thus making your cast speed much lower than with Charged, effectively lowering your survival ability?

I don't know about the actual circumstance for strong holy mages. My gear is bullshit, and I don't even have DD5.
But for actual action time, I can give estimations from another source. I believe the data are good estimations.
Assuming 35% CS bonus, imp dark. Same for Charge holy set.

35% CS, imp elementalists

Non-imperil radiant holy/dark

What spreadsheet is that? I don't have this one, and it looks very useful.

So it's better to cast a T2 or a T1 from your own element than casting a T3 of a different element

Yes.

Also, the elemental effects of reducing resistance by 25% aren't that good after all?

Does it matter?
Your matched elemental T1 spell deal more damage than non-match element T3 spell.

This post has been edited by qr12345: Aug 30 2019, 10:50

So it's better to cast a T2 or a T1 from your own element than casting a T3 of a different element, even if your whole set is geared for one element?

Also, the elemental effects of reducing resistance by 25% aren't that good after all?

And yeah, I was thinking of a Rainbow mage with a set that spread EDBs for 4 elements, until I saw the Spell Damage formula and how EDB influences it.

I think a few numbers to back off the reasoning are going to teach you better about how dealing damage as mage works, and how come rotating between elements is a very bad idea.
Long story short: it's all about EDB playing a major role in boosting your damage output.

Here is what I have as Dark mage:
Spell Damage Bonus
0.0% fire, 0.0% cold, 22.6% elec, 24.7% wind, 0.0% holy, 315.5% dark
Basically, my dark spells are 415.5% the damage output of the normal, bonus-less spell.
A T3 holy spell with a 0% bonus will simply never even remotely compete against a T1 dark spell.
Perhaps I could try trading some dark power to get some holy power instead? Assuming I can make things even, it'd make only around 160% bonus for both, making my dark spells lose roughly half of their power output.
=> I'd also have to raise my holy prof, which would come at the cost of some EDB, making my damage output even lower
=> Absolutely no point trying to cast holy after dark for a tiny 25% bonus (that is, assuming the targets do are inflicted with Blunted Attack, which is not even a given), if it comes at the cost of more than half of my damage output

How about rainbow (4 elements) mage? You're lucky, I still have my entire (mildly forged) cool mage set to use as example:
Spell Damage Bonus
31.5% fire, 267.2% cold, 35.1% elec, 35.4% wind, 0.0% holy, 0.0% dark
I'd have to scatter the EDB on all 4 elements, which would make around 90% EDB on every element. This time, my damage output would be at 190% the normal damage for every element, instead of 367% the amount I have for Cold.
=> All 4 elements share the same proficiency, so this time I wouldn't have to trade some EDB for prof
=> Still absolutely pointless again, because i'm better off just blasting my cool spells like mad

If EDB wasn't a thing, or if at least the EDB weren't so huge, then yes element rotation would be useful. But as things are right now, specializing in a single elemental is the only efficient way.

I think a few numbers to back off the reasoning are going to teach you better about how dealing damage as mage works, and how come rotating between elements is a very bad idea.
Long story short: it's all about EDB playing a major role in boosting your damage output.

Here is what I have as Dark mage:
Spell Damage Bonus
0.0% fire, 0.0% cold, 22.6% elec, 24.7% wind, 0.0% holy, 315.5% dark
Basically, my dark spells are 415.5% the damage output of the normal, bonus-less spell.
A T3 holy spell with a 0% bonus will simply never even remotely compete against a T1 dark spell.
Perhaps I could try trading some dark power to get some holy power instead? Assuming I can make things even, it'd make only around 160% bonus for both, making my dark spells lose roughly half of their power output.
=> I'd also have to raise my holy prof, which would come at the cost of some EDB, making my damage output even lower
=> Absolutely no point trying to cast holy after dark for a tiny 25% bonus (that is, assuming the targets do are inflicted with Blunted Attack, which is not even a given), if it comes at the cost of more than half of my damage output

How about rainbow (4 elements) mage? You're lucky, I still have my entire (mildly forged) cool mage set to use as example:
Spell Damage Bonus
31.5% fire, 267.2% cold, 35.1% elec, 35.4% wind, 0.0% holy, 0.0% dark
I'd have to scatter the EDB on all 4 elements, which would make around 90% EDB on every element. This time, my damage output would be at 190% the normal damage for every element, instead of 367% the amount I have for Cold.
=> All 4 elements share the same proficiency, so this time I wouldn't have to trade some EDB for prof
=> Still absolutely pointless again, because i'm better off just blasting my cool spells like mad

If EDB wasn't a thing, or if at least the EDB weren't so huge, then yes element rotation would be useful. But as things are right now, specializing in a single elemental is the only efficient way.

That's what I was thinking when I saw the EDB formula. As I don't have yet the numbers a player can reach in his EDB (that's what I'm working on), I didn't have an estimation of how much damage we'd be talking about.

I guess one element.

Pity, though. All those ponies and NO RAINBOW? Where are your dreams?

This post has been edited by ahroun: Aug 30 2019, 12:02

That's what I was thinking when I saw the EDB formula. As I don't have yet the numbers a player can reach in his EDB (that's what I'm working on), I didn't have an estimation of how much damage we'd be talking about.

I guess one element.

Pity, though. All those ponies and NO RAINBOW? Where are your dreams?

With 5x fully forged peerless phase and a fully forged PTWD, I have 484.7% wind EDB. The only way to get more, I think, would be to switch to something like a Peerless Tempestuous Redwood Staff of Freyr, which I think would be less good overall for other reasons.

I think a few numbers to back off the reasoning are going to teach you better about how dealing damage as mage works, and how come rotating between elements is a very bad idea.
Long story short: it's all about EDB playing a major role in boosting your damage output.

--- skip ---

If EDB wasn't a thing, or if at least the EDB weren't so huge, then yes element rotation would be useful. But as things are right now, specializing in a single elemental is the only efficient way.

All this prompts me a question : i concur that 4-elem "rainbow" is bad. BUT what if I build a set around just 2 "chain-effect" elements ?
Meaning, the first can proc an effect exploitable by the second, like e.g Elec causing Searin Skin, followed by Fire iirc.
And if they proc, remember they usually proc in more then one target, even 3-4 on average .

That would leave each of the 2 elems with 180 % EDB bonus, using same proficiency.

The first cast could be just a T2 more to cause the effect rather then to one-shot 'em, followed by T3 of the second elem to kill all affected, then T3 of first elem to finish off (and eventually T2 or T1 of second if some tough guy still barely standing).

~

That's inefficient either.
Why sacrificing your burst damage of T3 spell, getting little chance to one shot monsters?
Not to mention the game play will be more complicated and time consuming.

A fast question. What is the normal price of noodly appendage? I checked WTB and found only one person would buy it at 22,222 c. I would like to get some credits but do not want to sell my stuff below 'market price'

A fast question. What is the normal price of noodly appendage? I checked WTB and found only one person would buy it at 22,222 c. I would like to get some credits but do not want to sell my stuff below 'market price'

I see one at 33k (Ming28561) and two at 30k (morineko and unitready) on the first page of WTB. That's currently the normal range.

edit: I had one of the buyers names wrong.

This post has been edited by jantch: Aug 30 2019, 17:16

I see one at 33k (Ming28561) and two at 30k (morineko and NerfThis) on the first page of WTB. That's currently the normal range.

THX, I will go to see.

Void attacks vs Penetrated Armor

As void attacks ignore mitigations, does penetrated armor works with void?

I got this 2 weapons to chose from right now, which is better for 1h build?
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/200387324/20a0994592
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/203425011/c464bcb507

Also, does monsters have base physical mitigation other than the crushing/slashing/piercing ones?

Void attacks vs Penetrated Armor

As void attacks ignore mitigations, does penetrated armor works with void?

I got this 2 weapons to chose from right now, which is better for 1h build?
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/200387324/20a0994592
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/203425011/c464bcb507

Also, does monsters have base physical mitigation other than the crushing/slashing/piercing ones?

void attack doesn't ignore mitigations, it's just that there are no source for void specific mitigation for either player or monster.
PA work with void as it decrease physical mitigation
yes there's physical mitigation, and physical mitigation =/= crushing/slashing/piercing mitigation
look at your stats on character page, there's different entry for those, one on defense, the other on specific mitigation.

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Aug 30 2019, 18:56

Void attacks vs Penetrated Armor

There is no versus, one is an element without its own elemental day and the other is a weapons only debuff.

As void attacks ignore mitigations, does penetrated armor works with void?

No, they dont. They are still affected by it. PM does reduce the damage, also because the void mitigation of all monster is plain zero, that means not only that there is no monster strong against it, but that no monster is actually weak against it. Also, in the end after a certain level there is no melee player fighting in the game with a weapon without void damage, so much for vs again. For the damage it makes just absolutly no difference if you get the void damage from an ethereal weapon or from one that is hollowforged.

I got this 2 weapons to chose from right now, which is better for 1h build?

The rapier, but FYI it is still nothing i would actually call a good weapon.

Also, does monsters have base physical mitigation other than the crushing/slashing/piercing ones?

Go look at any monster in your monsterlab and search for the word Defense. Maybe you will find it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) No, seriously, when there is a token upgrade which says about itself "Increases monster physical mitigation by 1%" i am sure as sure they have.

Ive been doing some searching about armor when dual wielding, and it seems like a general consensus that you can swap to Shade around level 300. My question is How good does the Shade armor need to be to make the transition? Also is it absolutely mandatory for it to have a prefix to survive in such defensively gimped gear?

Ive been doing some searching about armor when dual wielding, and it seems like a general consensus that you can swap to Shade around level 300.

Yeah? I am not even sure swap from what?

My question is How good does the Shade armor need to be to make the transition? Also is it absolutely mandatory for it to have a prefix to survive in such defensively gimped gear?

No, you dont need prefix on your first shade armor and i would say use shade when you have shade. Any "only use shade after level 300" is bullshit. When you have it, use it. And dont worry too much about how good the armor is, you will get better later and even if you would wait for better shade, it is not as if that would be endgame gear.