[X] My Assistant

And what about his staff? Was i right about this? Or would be one of focus okay? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Btw, can someone please tell me how the perfect IW does look like for a staff? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

staff should be shocking willow of destruction I believe.
IW should be something like penetrator + spellweaver, but penetrator + archmage/anihilator is fine too if it's just for arena I think

Ehm, damned. I dont know something like that. Well i guess i will try it out in GF when i actually play it. So Pen5 + Spell 4 then? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
So i did take a look at roadshoes catgirl thing banner whatever so it is Pen and Spell, and i would just assume Pen is supposed to be 5. I wonder how unlucky i will be for my first staff? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Ah, i am not in a hurry, so i can take my time, everything is fine. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Oh, nearly forgot. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) Thanks Fudo. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

This post has been edited by Uncle Stu: Aug 29 2019, 05:46

oh, you and your drop rants again?

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) Don't worry, I'll be ranting again when I finish the Dance whit the dragons challenge on IWBTH difficulty in a few hours, and get no equipment in 150 battles.

But in the meantime I wanted to put that aside and ask them the following, there are times that I leave certain monsters blind, and I have noticed that those monsters receive considerably more damage, but there are others who have also done the same, and still have same defense, why does that happen?

I need serious help. I wanted to try being a mage but... the damage is shit and I don't know why

This is my equipment:

Legendary Shocking Redwood Staff of Focus
Legendary Frugal Cotton Cap
Legendary Frugal Cotton Robe
Legendary Charged Cotton Gloves
Legendary Ruby Cotton pants
Legandary Frugal Cotton Shoes

My attributes

Strength 0
Dexterity 0
Agility 350
Endurance 350
Intelligence 425
Wisdom 420

And I'm playing an Elec Mage.

What I can't understand is why I can't complete the arena in IWBTH. My setup of DW clear PFUDOR, but with Mage (which supposedly is more OP than DW) I end up failing and losing every time.

What am I doing wrong? Is the equipment, the attributes? I don't think is the abilities because I bought everything related to my Mage build (staff, cloth, Havoc, Elementalism, etc).

Do I need to IW and upgrade my equip?

I seriously need help from the experts

You're most likely going to have to scrap all of that. Except for the gloves, most the equipment you listed isn't worth anything except salvaging for high grade cloths and wood

As far as a staff goes, I think a legendary shocking willow staff of the destruction is the best bet if you wanna maximize your damage.
Secondly you will need at least 3 phase pieces of mjonlir and 2 cotton pieces of the elementalist before attempting mage.
Ideally if the prefix is charged on any of those are the best but incredibly expensive unless you get lucky in drops or auctions. You would probably have to settle with standard like ruby/amber/zicron or even frugal which are much cheaper than any of the high end stuff.
You also want to raise your endurance to the same level as your wisdom and intelligence and place some points into dex to parry since mages can't block and you need as much survival as you can get.

Also you might need IA lvl 2-3 in the hath perks or you'll end up having a harder time even with all the proper equipment.
It all comes down to the fact that mage builds are expensive.

Please, for anyone who wants to change the fighting style they are currently using, to the Mage fighting style, pay close attention to this simple phrase that Hakrei posted:

It all comes down to the fact that mage builds are expensive.

How expensive? I have not stopped seeing messages talking at least 1M of credits, for most of the equipment for Mage, and that is as economically as possible.

This post has been edited by Arkoniusx: Aug 29 2019, 07:45

Please, for anyone who wants to change the fighting style they are currently using, to the Mage fighting style, pay close attention to this simple phrase that Hakrei posted:
How expensive? I have not stopped seeing messages talking at least 1M of credits, for most of the equipment for Mage, and that is as economically as possible.

The answer is... it's complicated.

Fully forging a mage set of 4 phases, 1 cotton, 1 staff will cost you somewhere to the degree of 200m credits.

You can make mage work in unforged exquisite/mag gear by the late 300s, with carefully chosen pieces, but it will be as slow as (or slower than) melee and also much much more dangerous.

The gear pieces themselves are not too bad. You can get beginner fire/cold items for maybe 1-2m each, if not less at auction. I sold a radiant niflheim cap (14% edb) last week at a whole 140k.

Forging them, however, is very expensive. Very very expensive. Crystallized Phazon costs 200k each, and that's not even the most expensive part - the high-grade cloth is. You need a lot of it.

See tox01's results in the DWD thread if you want to see what it's like playing mage without forged legendary gear. There's also a mage guide somewhere that covers basics on how to pick gear pieces...

And what about his staff? Was i right about this? Or would be one of focus okay? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Btw, can someone please tell me how the perfect IW does look like for a staff? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Sorry, I saw nobody answered this last time, but this thread is starting to get a bit full of misinformation and it's putting me off coming here at all...

The 'perfect' IW for a staff is generally considered Penetrator 5, Spellweaver 4. Penetrator is definitely the best thing you can get on a staff. As for the usefulness of Spellweaver, well... it's complicated, because cast speed essentially works in breakpoints... but it's fairly safe to just take S4. The other option is 4 Archmage, which is also pretty okay.

On focus staffs: they're more usable than people think, and with a full mystic set you can take advantage of them, though it's not as good as the conventional destruction choice. Arctic Oak of Focus, for example, is arguably a better way to get counter-resist as a cold user than an Arctic Willow of Destruction, although I am not sure whether the math would support that hypothesis strongly, and even if it does I would expect an Arctic Redwood of Destruction to be better anyway. Still, if you had a peerless focus staff, you could use it without it being total trash!

This post has been edited by lestion: Aug 29 2019, 08:25

I'd go for shocking redwood of destruction, not a Willow for my part.
Brutal damage output is more important than the small counter-resist and depr bonuses provided by Willow.
Willow is an alternative to Redwood for elec and wind, not the other way around.

I'd go for shocking redwood of destruction, not a Willow for my part.
Brutal damage output is more important than the small counter-resist and depr bonuses provided by Willow.
Willow is an alternative to Redwood for elec and wind, not the other way around.

I agree with this! There are arguments to be made for both.

For non-imperil, Redwood is provably better for average damage output in all but the most extreme cases (elementals with maxed chaos tokens).

For imperil, though, Willow's counter-resist will help you land more imperils occasionally. Not an enormous amount, though, and considering the difference in price between Willow and Redwood right now... if your choice is between an average Willow and a really good Redwood at equal price, take the Redwood, every time. They're way better than people think.

This post has been edited by lestion: Aug 29 2019, 08:59

Sorry, I saw nobody answered this last time, but this thread is starting to get a bit full of misinformation and it's putting me off coming here at all...

No, is okay, i just thought no one did notice it, just because i ask so rarely questions. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

But for a LHOH when you plan at least later on to do GF, it would be sure as sure Pen 5 Spell 4 right? I mean i am not in a hurry, so when i finally switch, i will allready have forged my equipment quite a bit. I just did notice, i that i just dont have any cloth of heaven sent at all. Weird. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Well, maybe i will have a bit more luck and drop some myself in the meantime. Btw are Radiant or Charged pieces really needed to play GF at all? Or would it at least be possible to compensate the lack of those with a bit more forging?

Oh and another thing. Does a mage have to do something special to get staff prof, or do you just get when you do your mage stuff? And yes, i really do wonder since a while now.

I'd go for shocking redwood of destruction, not a Willow for my part.
Brutal damage output is more important than the small counter-resist and depr bonuses provided by Willow.
Willow is an alternative to Redwood for elec and wind, not the other way around.

If you play GF and IW constantly, you will realize how important counter-resist and deprecating profs are when you are facing 7~9 monsters every round. Those little damage won't even make you kill all in 5 spells instead of 5 spells. A single resist make you need 1 more turn. Imagine how many resist you would be facing.
Not to mention how much damage imp mages do to monsters got imperil. They just die in 2~3 shots if your damage isn't imperil.
Yet for the majority of the player population, for most who only play Arenas, redwood is as fine as willow.

No, is okay, i just thought no one did notice it, just because i ask so rarely questions. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

But for a LHOH when you plan at least later on to do GF, it would be sure as sure Pen 5 Spell 4 right? I mean i am not in a hurry, so when i finally switch, i will allready have forged my equipment quite a bit. I just did notice, i that i just dont have any cloth of heaven sent at all. Weird. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Well, maybe i will have a bit more luck and drop some myself in the meantime. Btw are Radiant or Charged pieces really needed to play GF at all? Or would it at least be possible to compensate the lack of those with a bit more forging?

Oh and another thing. Does a mage have to do something special to get staff prof, or do you just get when you do your mage stuff? And yes, i really do wonder since a while now.

If your goal is to conquer GF, I suggest giving up on holy.
My old dark set forged to 25~30 could help me pass to 800 rounds easily, while the last 200 rounds were using too many consumables.
But my full-charge holy set, phases forged to 35 on average can only drive me comfortably to 500 rounds. I usually stop before 600 rounds due to the constant SoL. After that is a waste of consumables. And with that forging I still spark in Arenas and RE occasionally.

There's a reason why elec and wind are so popular. And there is a reason why a catgirl I knew salvaged his perfect holy set and switch to imp dark.

This post has been edited by -vincento-: Aug 29 2019, 13:08

Interesting, "delicate flower" around 1m or more? Thanks, I will ask in stores aswell.

Also my dexterity is 0. I am an elec mage aswell, has been since day one. Is it really a good idea to put points into dexterity? How many?
Currently I have 400 for agility and endurance, 507 for intelligence and 501 wisdom. Just wondering. Is it REALLY necessary?¿ I don't wanna waste those points. Sounds weird to me.

-snip-

Try to calculate the CR ratio between a Pen5 50%CR willow and a Pen5 RedWood, try to calculate the RedWood MDB*EDB / Willow MDB*EDB. That's all I have to say.
That is, I'm not even putting the elemental prof in the balance, because it does count too and clearly favors a Redwood by allowing one to put more emphasis on EDB for the clothes instead of the prof.

Interesting, "delicate flower" around 1m or more? Thanks, I will ask in stores aswell.

Also my dexterity is 0. I am an elec mage aswell, has been since day one. Is it really a good idea to put points into dexterity? How many?
Currently I have 400 for agility and endurance, 507 for intelligence and 501 wisdom. Just wondering. Is it REALLY necessary?¿ I don't wanna waste those points. Sounds weird to me.

Waste what. 400 points on dex should now require less experience than 1 point on your Int and Wis do.
Almost every 2 points on Dex increase my parry chance by 0.1%, which is equivalent to 0.1 evade because magic damage is neglectable to mages. That's significant amount of survivability.
Btw I recommend average distribution on Agi, End, Int and Wis, Dex 50 points less than each of them.

Try to calculate the CR ratio between a Pen5 50%CR willow and a Pen5 RedWood, try to calculate the RedWood MDB*EDB / Willow MDB*EDB. That's all I have to say.
That is, I'm not even putting the elemental prof in the balance, because it does count too and clearly favors a Redwood by allowing one to put more emphasis on EDB for the clothes instead of the prof.

That doesn't apply to the real combat anyway, as you used to say. You don't purely look at the stats and say hey that's what you need.
According to sssss2, the best combo for GF and IW is 0.7 prof for elemental, with willow.
Best combo for DwD is 0.78 profs, with redwood.

And everybody knows it's easy for elemental mages to reach ≥0.7 profs with purely cotton shoes.
I'd rather trust his professionalism and his researches on all elementals, and experience on practical combats.



This post has been edited by -vincento-: Aug 29 2019, 13:34

BTW I never asked about my attributes. I am playing 1H style. Is my current attribute correct?
Str 305
Dex 305
Agi 200
End 304
Int 190
Wis 190

I think although Int and Agi is not that useful for 1H style, they shall be used for providing SP points which is essential for melees

This post has been edited by FalconF: Aug 29 2019, 14:23

BTW I never asked about my attributes. I am playing 1H style. Is my current attribute correct?
Str 305
Dex 305
Agi 200
End 304
Int 190
Wis 190

1H -> INT = 0

Intelligence (INT)
1 point = +2 to Magical Damage formula / You don't need this as Melee
1 point = +0.5 to the Magical Crit Chance formula / You don't need this as Melee
(Staff only) 100 points = +1% Coalesced Mana Chance / You don't need this as Melee

This post has been edited by Ikki Pop: Aug 29 2019, 14:29

BTW I never asked about my attributes. I am playing 1H style. Is my current attribute correct?
Str 305
Dex 305
Agi 200
End 304
Int 190
Wis 190

I think although Int and Agi is not that useful for 1H style, they shall be used for providing SP points which is essential for melees

I personally suggest raising Wis to maybe Str-50, since Wis still offers more mana and better magic accuracy.
For Agi, raise it and keep it to the point where your attack speed bonus is 0%, because it still offers physical mitigation.

1H -> INT = 0

Intelligence (INT)
1 point = +2 to Magical Damage formula / You don't need this as Melee
1 point = +0.5 to the Magical Crit Chance formula / You don't need this as Melee
(Staff only) 100 points = +1% Coalesced Mana Chance / You don't need this as Melee

I don't think so.
For mages, extra spirit has no use SoL and Spirit shields. So mages usually keep Str 0.
But for melees, points on Int still provides one with more spirit points, which extends the length of spirit stance.

No, is okay, i just thought no one did notice it, just because i ask so rarely questions. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

But for a LHOH when you plan at least later on to do GF, it would be sure as sure Pen 5 Spell 4 right? I mean i am not in a hurry, so when i finally switch, i will allready have forged my equipment quite a bit. I just did notice, i that i just dont have any cloth of heaven sent at all. Weird. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Well, maybe i will have a bit more luck and drop some myself in the meantime. Btw are Radiant or Charged pieces really needed to play GF at all? Or would it at least be possible to compensate the lack of those with a bit more forging?

Oh and another thing. Does a mage have to do something special to get staff prof, or do you just get when you do your mage stuff? And yes, i really do wonder since a while now.

Oh no, Uncle wanna switch to Mage ! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

The end of the world is near. Get ready for Doomsday ! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I thought you'd never do that, Uncle ... it's a shame (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

That doesn't apply to the real combat anyway, as you used to say. You don't purely look at the stats and say hey that's what you need.

I've played first a LARN, then a LARD for quite a while, before finally being able to use a LDWD. In other words, I've played these 3 kinds of staffs a lot and I know very well what they are truly capable of. According to my observations, there aren't many players who can say as much, because there seems to be a trend of leaping over the "budget mage" step, by going straight to the LSWD/LTWD/LDWD/LHOH, thus without ever playing a Redwood. If I'm not mistaken, you are one of those who did so. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but at least it's safe to say that such players who did that leap cannot pretend to know better than those who did not.

If I'm using (stupid) numbers and calculations to back up my logic, it's only because the majority of the players is unable to take any judgement regarding the viability of a playstyle without the use of these. I have never judged the efficiency of a playstyle with numbers myself: the numbers only come in handy when I'm on "something that looks good/promizing" and I'm trying to optimize.

If I'm telling you that Redwood is better overall for every of the 4 elements, Elec and Wind included, it's precisely because I know very well what both Redwood and Willow are really worth/capable of. While I'm at it, I'm pretty sure that Katalox is actually way better than what it's usually credited for. I'd even go so far at giving a try at Katalox for a non-imp playstyle.

BTW, if landing Imperil was sooo much more important, why are Curse-Weaver clothes considered as shit? Do you even know how often monsters actually Resist?

Don't be mistaken: I'm not trying to tell you that you are entirely wrong. I'm mostly saying that there aren't any staffs that are absolute superior to others and that the player's choise tends to be based out of popular beliefs that are complete bullshit and based out of thin air.
Willow is clearly the best at being super-reliable and consistent, no doubt about it. But there are also times when raw strength is better, and you can't possibly beat Redwood at that:

1. Who cares if a monster resisted once (thus takes only 90% of the damage), while it wouldn't with a willow, if the higher damage output compensates?
2. Who cares if Imperil fails to connect on a monster, when your damage output does kill more monsters in a single blast? That is, the non-imperiled monsters will die faster anyway than when playing a willow staff.
3. Why playing Willow, if in the end it takes you more turns to clear a round? Because even with a Willow there will (almost) always be 1-3 assholes who did not get imperiled. That is, they will also profit from still being alive for 1-2 more turns to whoop your ass.

So let me put it in other words for you: LTWD and LSWD do are good, yes, but they should be considered only when one intends to make it their final staff, to forge the entire set to its fullest and to have many levels of Daemon Duality. Or call it making it so that having even more MDB and EDB would be pointless, and this is where having more counter-resist and depr prof becomes better. Otherwise, Redwood is the way to go.

Think about these considerations.

TL;DR
Counter-resist and depr prof are cool, but that doesn't solve all problems. and sometimes just hitting harder does solve problems better.

-Snip-

I have no intention to discuss this with you further because I know I'm right, and all advanced mages are using willow staffs. This is a fact and this is what everybody knows.
Your play style is not optimal for maximizing speed and survivability. Everything you mention you've used to rationalize your argument won't apply to the general players.

because you simply want to finish Arenas without imperils.
You only use your mage set for Arenas, which is very small number of monsters on average each round.
You have cold and your dark set 1.0 prof factor and non-imp style,
and you have DD6 long ago
and you've never done a 1000 round PFDfest with any of your mage set, I believe. In fact, I'm very confident you cannot complete a PFDfest with your mage set yet. Because they are not the most efficient setup. All your experience only applies to your situation, your Arenas play only. And if I had your DDs and your resource, I could have been more better. That's what advice I tried to give to other players. As, there are always better ways to play and worse ways to play.

Your opinion on shortsword style does not apply to other players either. Just a few days ago, a player around Lv300 told me how miserable he plays with his shortsword. According to him, his legendary hallowed shortsword play was much worse than his play with exquisite rapier(4~6 hits in contrast to 8~12 hits for shortsword). He also reports problem of very low imperil success rate.
The reason I mention this is because this situation is literally the same for your advice on mage. You had more DDs and peerless protection power set long ago, and high level, high magic accuracy. But this play style was much worse than the usual rapier play style for general population.
Now this advice for mage is again the same. This only applies to you, because you are not interested in maximizing speed. You have more resource than most players, and you come out and say your style maybe isn't the best, but it's just fine, which is not in fact. You haven't done GF with your mage set, or experienced massive counter-resist and SoL. Surely you can say whatever you want because you don't know yet.

Last words, I've mentioned that redwood is as good as willow for Arenas.

This post has been edited by -vincento-: Aug 29 2019, 17:43