[X] My Assistant

...

I have a couple of things I want to weigh in on from the previous first post:

First, it sounds like you might have a misconception about elemental procs - those only apply from spells, not from elemental strikes, so while you can have it proc from the spike shield ability you won't get Turbulent Air from using Wind Strike, for example. However, elemental strikes CAN trigger the explosion effect (ie, if you're using fire spike shield, cold strikes can consume the searing skin proc for a small amount of damage). However, the damage is pretty negligible...

In most situations holy, dark and cold are going to be the ideal elements due to schoolgirls & distribution of regular monster resistances.

Next up: the argument between Savage and Agile is dependent on whether you want damage (savage) or more survivability (agile). 2H mace could go either way: you'll be less dependent on attack speed reducing the amount of attacks you take per turn if you've got most enemies stunned consistently. It also depends on what kind of content you want to do - if you're using estoc in fests or high item worlds, agile is probably going to be mandatory for 2H players. Arenas only should be survivable fairly easily without even significant forging on savage (though a little bit is always encouraged, due to the logarithmic curve on upgrade returns...)

Doubly so if you want to play Fus-Ro-Dah, which apparently uses as much attack speed as possible to build up overcharge before the stun runs out, allowing you to keep all enemies permanently stunned as long as you play strategically and have it ready at the start of a new round.

Vampire weapons are considerably outside the meta and your mileage may vary on how good they are.

As for the relative value of butcher vs swift strike: depends on whether you need the attack speed to survive (or elongate the duration of buffs). Otherwise, straight up more damage is going to benefit you more.

This is largely my experience as a long-time DW player talking, and not as 2H, but most of the same concepts apply.

This post has been edited by lestion: Jun 21 2019, 12:30

I have a couple of things I want to weigh in on from the previous first post:

First, it sounds like you might have a misconception about elemental procs - those only apply from spells, not from elemental strikes, so while you can have it proc from the spike shield ability you won't get Turbulent Air from using Wind Strike, for example. However, elemental strikes CAN trigger the explosion effect (ie, if you're using fire spike shield, cold strikes can consume the searing skin proc for a small amount of damage). However, the damage is pretty negligible...

Huh? I don't think that's accurate? Uh, here's part of a log of me playing (reversed to be more easily read):

Your spike shield hits Princess Amaya for 7 points of wind damage.
Princess Amaya gains the effect Turbulent Air.
You hit Princess Amaya for 2381 slashing damage.
Elec Strike hits Princess Amaya for 680 elec damage.
Princess Amaya gains the effect Bleeding Wound.
---
You cast Shockblast.
Shockblast hits Princess Amaya for 424 elec damage (50% resisted)
Turbulent Air explodes for 133 wind damage
---
You hit Princess Amaya for 2078 slashing damage.
Elec Strike hits Princess Amaya for 471 elec damage.

As you can see, the Elec Strike provided noticeably improved damage and didn't consume Turbulent Air. I suppose consideration for School Girls is important though, and looking at the resistance chart on the wiki, I didn't realize how badly Dark just outclasses everything. I suppose it's probably not wroth it to try optimizing around those debuffs when Dark is almost as good by default; good to know.

Huh? I don't think that's accurate? Uh, here's part of a log of me playing (reversed to be more easily read):


As you can see, the Elec Strike provided noticeably improved damage and didn't consume Turbulent Air. I suppose consideration for School Girls is important though, and looking at the resistance chart on the wiki, I didn't realize how badly Dark just outclasses everything. I suppose it's probably not wroth it to try optimizing around those debuffs when Dark is almost as good by default; good to know.

Yes - this does not conflict with what I explained. Sources of spell damage (spike shield, and spells like Shockblast etc) can cause those debuffs, but elemental strikes (which are counted as physical attacks, rather than spells) do not cause them.

They do, however, trigger the explosion effects when you hit with the opposing element - cold damage against a fire debuff, elec damage against a wind debuff, and vice versa for each. But the damage is minimal and barely even worth selecting your spike shield to oppose your weapon - letalone the other way round.

You said the elemental strikes trigger the explosion though, which is the part I'm saying was not accurate.

However, elemental strikes CAN trigger the explosion effect (ie, if you're using fire spike shield, cold strikes can consume the searing skin proc for a small amount of damage)

The elemental strikes benefit from decreased mitigation but will not trigger the explosion. As shown above, I hit with an Elec Strike against a monster with Turbulent Air and an explosion was not triggered. I then hit with Shockblast against the same monster and it triggered the explosion.

EDIT: I, of course, agree it's a silly optimization in the face of how overwhelming the damage mitigation between Dark and the next best element is, which I thank you for helping me realize.

This post has been edited by bbobjs: Jun 21 2019, 14:14

1. I don't know for sure. But I do know that every bit of counter resist helps a lot! HV Utils makes a calculation of the monster resist, so it should have a formula in the code. Sorry, I'm too lazy to check for you.
2. It's based on experience. The calcuated value would be a bit higher, after 0.78 you will have maxed the effect of proficiency even against specialized monsters with highest resist to your element. But after 0.68 the gain gets very low, and you can stop there.

Thanks.

1. It's layered, otherwise combining staff and proficiency counter resist would be quite abusive.

2. Frankly, 0.68 is quite an outdated value, especially with all the PL2250 that are roaming. Consider it should be 0.70. 0.70 because it's the exact value at which you negate every (regular) monster's elemental mitigation once imperiled. What do you mean with "derivation"? Beyond 0.70, all you'll get is better counter-resist, and better elemental mitigation reduction against FSM. 1.0 prof factor rocks against FSM BTW.

Thanks. By "derivation", I was hoping someone had actually done a calculation to show 0.68 was a good or optimal value. It seems this number is based on peoples' experience.

Sorry to quote from another thread, didn't wanta take it off topic.

Hong Meiling My Wife is one of the plvl capped monsters - get used to seeing her a lot! I do really like 'Hong Meiling My Wife Too' (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This has made me realize how poorly I understand the game. If Hong Meiling is My Wife is a plvl capped monster why am I seeing them? Wouldn't they be WAY above my level?

You said the elemental strikes trigger the explosion though, which is the part I'm saying was not accurate.

The elemental strikes benefit from decreased mitigation but will not trigger the explosion. As shown above, I hit with an Elec Strike against a monster with Turbulent Air and an explosion was not triggered. I then hit with Shockblast against the same monster and it triggered the explosion.

EDIT: I, of course, agree it's a silly optimization in the face of how overwhelming the damage mitigation between Dark and the next best element is, which I thank you for helping me realize.

I switched back to DW to test that I hadn't gone mad in the month or so since I switched to mage...

... and discovered that you're absolutely correct: elemental strikes are not triggering the explosion.

So, with egg on my face, I stand corrected. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) But, at least we discovered yet another piece of outdated or incorrect information on the wiki.

("In addition, these status effect will explode for bonus damage on the monster when struck by the next offensive spell or elemental strike in the cycle.")

I did also test that this still applies regardless of whether it's an elemental strike from a prefix, from IW or from infusions.

Sorry to quote from another thread, didn't wanta take it off topic.
This has made me realize how poorly I understand the game. If Hong Meiling is My Wife is a plvl capped monster why am I seeing them? Wouldn't they be WAY above my level?

The relevant passage on the wiki is found here. But, I realise this may also be slightly outdated information (or the difficulty mods not quite accurate), because at your level, you should be capped around ~PL1750.

I'm definitely seeing these power level capped Monsters rather frequently when I play on IWBTH, haven't tried to note if I'm seeing them on Nintendo. I assumed I must be fighting some scaled down version of these monsters? Uh, here's an example from Grindfest on IWBTH.

Well, at your level all monster are sort of scaled down, so dont worry too much about that.

Hello are there any benefits to keep 1-2 monsters as pets and furthermore upgrade them instead of raising a monsters farm for guaranteed gifts? My girl hasn't won a single battle so far (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) , here are her stats:

Hello are there any benefits to keep 1-2 monsters as pets and furthermore upgrade them instead of raising a monsters farm for guaranteed gifts?

No, there isnt. Monsterlab is a numbers game, so let them breed. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

My girl hasn't won a single battle so far (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) , here are her stats:

Well, look at it that way, there are a lot of monsters out there, and i mean a lot, and how often did you loose a fight or did flee this month? I guess not that often, and the same is true for everyone else. Also with only PL 349 she isnt actually the biggest fish around, which means, not that many people would actually encounter her. But dont worry, give her time and she will get some sure a sure, you just have to be patient. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) Also i have a lot of monster with a gift factor of 111%, but i am sure i did spend much less chaos tokens for that. And that is important because those other stats dont really win you a fight, all that actually matters is gift factor, but as i answered before, atm it is for you much more effective to increase the numbers of your monsters as to increase their stats.

This post has been edited by Uncle Stu: Jun 21 2019, 19:01

Hello are there any benefits to keep 1-2 monsters as pets and furthermore upgrade them instead of raising a monsters farm for guaranteed gifts? My girl hasn't won a single battle so far (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) , here are her stats:

Guaranteed gifts every 3 days, combined with the most valuable things (bindings & rare materials) not having any PL requirement make it significantly more efficient to have as many monsters as you can.

Monsters won't start showing up for high-level players, who play the most, until around PL1100ish or higher, and even then the rate of battle wins is not that regular. For my 1300, it's something like 1 win a week maybe - 2 if lucky? Not great.

That said, super low level monsters still get wins here and there. My monsters under level 50 seem to get them occasionally, but 200-1000 is a total dry zone.

This post has been edited by lestion: Jun 21 2019, 18:58

Monsterlab is not about money. it’s about sending a message. Everything burns!

So, with egg on my face, I stand corrected. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) But, at least we discovered yet another piece of outdated or incorrect information on the wiki.

("In addition, these status effect will explode for bonus damage on the monster when struck by the next offensive spell or elemental strike in the cycle.")

Fixed

Fixed

Better fix the sentence after, too (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

'... when struck by a Cold spell or a Cold strike.'

And the last sentence I guess can also be removed entirely. Was this accurate information at one point in time?

Resign to use shield and sword, do not misunderstand me, everything they recommended to me worked very well, but it is BORED as hell to have to wait for the monsters to die, besides for some reason, going from level 261 to 262 a must have been something incredible because they killed me quickly after some fights in the arena.

As I reached my limit of patience, lower the difficulty trying to see if I could play something a little quieter, but I happened exactly the same, so I had to go down hell level to the first level to be able to play again and even so I was able to defeat the monsters quickly. Anyway, so as not to make the issue longer I'm now in the second degree of difficulty using dual-wielding, and I'm getting along very well, for example; Yesterday I made the challenge of the arena of the 125 battles 2 times and I was full of trophies that I am needing so much now, plus 2 percussor artifacts, one appeared every time I made the challenge.

In fact, my question is related to that; One of the reasons why I give up the hell difficulty is because I was running very poor, I did not see much of anything, and what showed up did not help me much to improve my statistics, and every time less rewards appeared

But nothing else lowers the difficulty, I started to get out of everything for great amounts, is more; Uncle stu saw that yesterday I made a large order of materials, because with what I earn, I paid for what I bought and I was able to train the luck of the draw that cost me approximately 115,000 credits.

Since it explains all that, how is the base loot drawn chance affected by the difficulty? Because if it is more difficult to obtain lot in the highest difficulties, I think that I am going to stay a very long time in low difficulty.

Better fix the sentence after, too (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

'... when struck by a Cold spell or a Cold strike.'

And the last sentence I guess can also be removed entirely. Was this accurate information at one point in time?

Better?

Better?

That covers everything, good work (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

IW should involve a lot of Overpower, I would think? Overpower5 + BUt/Fat4? Any 2h players who can confirm?

i would always go for O5 on any 2H weapon, unless you use FRD. for the remaining potencies, it depends on how much you want to invest. without heavily forged armour, the defensive boost from S4 is quite welcome for the harder challenges, but if you forge enough you will have no problem sleepwalking through all challenges with B4/F4

as for butcher vs. fatality, with my current set (power balance, mace of slaughter), F4 increases my damage output by about 3.8%, while even with fully forged ADB on the mace, i would only get about 2.9% out of B4. however, using the same mace with my agile shadowdancer set, butcher would give me about 0.5% more damage output than fatality

This post has been edited by sickentide: Jun 21 2019, 23:24

Just realized I have 0 piercing mitigation

Is this normal for light-shade armor users?