[X] My Assistant

Ten changed the way hit works now, so you'll need a high accuracy offhand to hit anything...and even with my 87% base chance with 55% from weapons I still get evaded by things 5 levels lower....which leads me to this question, is there a hidden hit penalty for dual wielding? That's the only thing I can think of since otherwise everyone would either be using magic or dual wielding cause of the accuracy changes.

I have a 94% base chance and 36% bonus from dual wielding; I should not be missing as much as I am. And having a penalty like that would be cruel and pointless, as well as unbalanced. You can either dual wield, and get a attack+accuracy bonus, or use a shield, and get a defense bonus instead. Giving a penalty for choosing the first doesn't make sense.

This post has been edited by DemonEyesBob: Aug 22 2009, 02:37

23 2 Amphibious Sperm Whale hits you for 0 crushing damage.
23 1 Amphibious Sperm Whale dodges your attack.
22 2 Amphibious Sperm Whale crits you for 4 crushing damage.
22 1 Amphibious Sperm Whale dodges your attack.
21 2 Amphibious Sperm Whale hits you for 0 crushing damage.
21 1 Amphibious Sperm Whale dodges your attack.
20 2 You evade the attack from Amphibious Sperm Whale.
20 1 Amphibious Sperm Whale dodges your attack.
19 2 You dodge the attack from Amphibious Sperm Whale.
19 1 Amphibious Sperm Whale dodges your attack.
18 4 You dodge the attack from Amphibious Sperm Whale.
18 3 You block the attack from Amphibious Sperm Whale.
18 2 Amphibious Sperm Whale casts Bukkake
18 1 Amphibious Sperm Whale dodges your attack.
17 2 Amphibious Sperm Whale hits you for 0 crushing damage.

just love no damage done both ways

It might not make sense to put a penalty, but it hasn't stopped other games from doing it...

As for hit, Ten mentioned this earlier in the thread:

Easier said.. the equipment hit chance bonus reduces miss chance by a percentage of the remainder after the base has been calculated. So if you have 20% chance to miss normally, 25% hit bonus on gear will reduce the miss chance by 25% of 20%, or 5%

The formula he gave was (1 - ((1 - (hit_base - evade) / 100) * (1 - hit_equip / 100))) * 100 %. (copy pasted it)....and now that I see it again I think I may know where I've gone wrong in the calculations...you stupid parentheses you...

Edit: So yea, now that I've read it right, giving the enemy an evasion of 10%, with base hit chance at 87% and equip hit chance at 55% my actual chance to hit is like 90%.

This post has been edited by Dndestroy: Aug 22 2009, 03:25

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif) I just accidently went into the "Graduation" level of the arena after I already ran through it once and set myself back 1,000C I was trying to save up for some heavy armor now I only have 250C (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

It might not make sense to put a penalty, but it hasn't stopped other games from doing it...

As for hit, Ten mentioned this earlier in the thread:
The formula he gave was (1 - ((1 - (hit_base - evade) / 100) * (1 - hit_equip / 100))) * 100 %. (copy pasted it)....and now that I see it again I think I may know where I've gone wrong in the calculations...you stupid parentheses you...

Edit: So yea, now that I've read it right, giving the enemy an evasion of 10%, with base hit chance at 87% and equip hit chance at 55% my actual chance to hit is like 90%.

After calculating it out with a 10% evade rate for mobs. I should actually have a 94% hit chance (funny how that works out), which I most definitely don't have right now. So either the base evade chance for mobs is way above 10%, which would seem unfair, or something else is going on.

unrelated edit: Love how I forgot to re-equip my 2nd weapon after browsing the bazaar; and I wondered why I lost so badly.

This post has been edited by DemonEyesBob: Aug 22 2009, 03:54

The tweaked accuracy rates are brutal. I think I might be missing more now than pre-update, but I can't back that up with any data, its just a feeling. I think I might dump some extra points into DEX since I get huge bonuses to STR and END from my equips.

Well, it sure does look like I can easily miss 3 times in a row when hitting something now. Before not so much.

Well, it sure does look like I can easily miss 3 times in a row when hitting something now. Before not so much.

Try 4-5.

On the other hand, after buying some armour, I am now able to survive 10x more rounds. Excellent.

Well, it sure does look like I can easily miss 3 times in a row when hitting something now. Before not so much.

Confirmed for me too. I miss mobs 3-4 times in a row. Attack Hit Chance 85%, Accuracy Bonus from Weapons 24.2%. Before with the same stats, they dodged something like each 15th to 20th of my attacks

There's a quick fix if you're dual wielding...get a dagger with high accuracy as an offhand. Say dagger because they seem to have the highest accuracy as well as parry.

There's a quick fix if you're dual wielding...get a dagger with high accuracy as an offhand. Say dagger because they seem to have the highest accuracy as well as parry.

I'm using a Raiper with the suffix "of Balance". Its got decent parry, high accuracy, and still has decent damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

My calculations for shield aren't coming out. Apparently, the damage reduction is 3 * 0.1 * supportive prf, but for me, it's reducing damage by 7.5, and my prf is only 15.02. 3 * 15.02 * 0.1 = ~4.5. Or am I reading something wrong?

My calculations for shield aren't coming out. Apparently, the damage reduction is 3 * 0.1 * supportive prf, but for me, it's reducing damage by 7.5, and my prf is only 15.02. 3 * 15.02 * 0.1 = ~4.5. Or am I reading something wrong?

You probably have some equipment that increase the proficiency. Go to your equipment screen scroll down twice and check + supportive magic.

My calculations for shield aren't coming out. Apparently, the damage reduction is 3 * 0.1 * supportive prf, but for me, it's reducing damage by 7.5, and my prf is only 15.02. 3 * 15.02 * 0.1 = ~4.5. Or am I reading something wrong?

The base absorption values are multiplied by a factor that increased by 1/10 per point of proficiency.

There's another element in the equation. This element is a constant that is increased by 0.1*prof. I didn't run the numbers properly to determine how that factor is increased, but its the only way the math works.

It seems like the balance of the game right now is:

If you have good equipment, the game becomes extremely easy

If you have no equipment, you die.

If you have no equipment and want to find equipment, you can't, because you die.

Right now I have 350 credits, and grindfest kills me before I make enough money to heal myself, and I used to be able to last about 12 rounds in normal easily.

I still like alot of the changes in the update though, just wanted to put in my two cents.

This. Not all of us have the credits to buy equipment, and with Grindfest now boosted in difficulty, it makes it even harder for the lowly of us to gain equipment or money.

That being said, how would doing battles on Cake affect my credit and equipment yield?

This. Not all of us have the credits to buy equipment, and with Grindfest now boosted in difficulty, it makes it even harder for the lowly of us to gain equipment or money.

That being said, how would doing battles on Cake affect my credit and equipment yield?

Drop is all based on the roll of the dice. I did 114 rounds with no equipment drops yesterday but got a pantload of items which could be sold for C. Also if you wait to be fully healed each time you can simply make credits repeatedly going through. Slow but it would work

Drop is all based on the roll of the dice. I did 114 rounds with no equipment drops yesterday but got a pantload of items which could be sold for C. Also if you wait to be fully healed each time you can simply make credits repeatedly going through. Slow but it would work

Thanks. Right now I've only gotten one item drop ever, and it was a pair of shoes. As people have been playing with different items, what sort of weapon types have people liked and which ones should I avoid? If I do decide to buy something eventually, I don't want to waste my credits.

Finally, are item yields the same on Cake as they are on Normal? I thought the yields were worse on easier settings.

Item yield is the same. As for weapon type, it depends on what kind of character you want to build. Unless you get an uber-rare ethereal weapon, you're pretty much stuck with staves if you want to cast magic decently.

Two-hand weapons have a chance to hit two mobs in one go, dual-wielding has the chance of attacking twice. Most slashing weapons have a chance of having being able to proc Bleed, which is sorta like Poison, piercing weapons can proc Penetrated Armor, which increases damage taken, and crushing weapons can proc Stun.

After calculating it out with a 10% evade rate for mobs. I should actually have a 94% hit chance (funny how that works out), which I most definitely don't have right now. So either the base evade chance for mobs is way above 10%, which would seem unfair, or something else is going on.

unrelated edit: Love how I forgot to re-equip my 2nd weapon after browsing the bazaar; and I wondered why I lost so badly.

honestly the mobs probably have about the same evasion rate as the player
so as ten said you will probably have about a 75% hit rate before weapon accuracy is taken into account

i have an 85% base hit chance and a 10% evasion so this seems like a pretty accurate way to do things to me

@Final: I personally prefer the DW proc over the 2h proc, simply because it hits the same mob rather than multiple mobs. Sure, the off-hand attack may sometimes be overkill and wasted on the target, but at least its effectiveness isn't reliant on where the mob you're hitting is on the list. Let's say you have one of the bosses left and you've killed everything else, with 2h the proc is rendered useless once you get it down to the big guy (if you choose to fight him last) but with DW the off-hand procs can bring them down a lot faster, especially when they crit.

Edit: That said, the 2h proc can be useful when fighting a lot of enemies, especially with an axe or mace cause of crush and bleed.

Edit 2: Also, 2h or DW is affected a good deal by armor. If you wanna go 2h, get heavy armor, DW use light or a light/cloth mix. This is mostly cause you'll see more heavy armor with strength, while you'll see more agility and dex from leather and cloth. the 2H proc is reliant on proficiency, str, and dex, while DW is proficiency, agi, and dex; so your armor can affect your procs a good deal.

This post has been edited by Dndestroy: Aug 22 2009, 08:29