[X] My Assistant

I really don't understand what are you talking about, so I'll just explain the way I understand this new grindfest and you can correct me if it's not what you are talking about (or if I misunderstood the notes):

- You start grindfest: lose 1 stamina;
- You beat the 50 initial rounds: you don't lose any stamina, essentially making you lose the same stamina as before;
- You keep going deeper: you lose the stamina you used to lose before.

So I see no penalty to run grindfest the way you are used to, unless you do less than 50 rounds.

(sorry if I made any English mistakes)

Unfortunately you are incorrect.
In 0.85 player have to pay 1 extra stamina for starting a Grindfest run.
that mean you will lost 1 more stamina than 0.84ver. no matter which round you flee.

This post has been edited by diodo: Jun 28 2017, 09:40

Unfortunately you are incorrect.
In 0.85 player have to pay 1 extra stamina for starting a Grindfest run.
that mean you will lost 1 more stamina than 0.84ver. no matter which round you flee.

Im not trying to downplay your problem or anything; this is a serious question:
Is 1 stamina that much of a problem? On the surface, it sounds like a really low and equitable number to me.

I ask this because my stamina has never dropped below 97, ever. So I'm not really aware of what the impact of +1 stamina loss per grindfest may or may not be?

I found an inventory cache bug. (dynjs_equip)

I salvaged a mag staff, then it got to be 'Untradeable'.
But, in the equipment shop, a hover-box says it is 'Tradeable'.
So I visited the equip shop in other pc and saw 'Untradeable'.

I think it is due to a lazy update of 'equip-USER.js' cache.

Subtle. Good catch, it is indeed because the cached equipment file only forces an update for changes and additions, not removals, and since it prioritizes the info in dynjs_equip rather than dynjs_eqstore it gives you the outdated info after salvaging. Fix is easy, just need to prioritize the inline one. Should be fixed the next time I version the javascript.

Im not trying to downplay your problem or anything; this is a serious question:
Is 1 stamina that much of a problem? On the surface, it sounds like a really low and equitable number to me.

I ask this because my stamina has never dropped below 97, ever. So I'm not really aware of what the impact of +1 stamina loss per grindfest may or may not be?

In the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal, really.

However, since many high-level players are able to do multiple full grindfests each day (or at least were able to, with 0.84), the stamina cost eventually adds up, meaning that the usage of Energy Drinks increases slightly. Not noticeable for the average player, but if you're someone who does half a dozen grindfests daily (or always flees after a few hundred rounds), it can give cause to grumble.

Im not trying to downplay your problem or anything; this is a serious question:
Is 1 stamina that much of a problem? On the surface, it sounds like a really low and equitable number to me.

I ask this because my stamina has never dropped below 97, ever. So I'm not really aware of what the impact of +1 stamina loss per grindfest may or may not be?

I do grindfests until round ~200, then flee to do Random Encounters and enter it again.

So, if I spend 1 ED a day with LGBD and do 2k rounds with this system, I'll spend an extra 10 Stamina than before(of course, considering that the initial 1 Stamina is gone forever, which I believe it is, as my Stamina is draining like never before).

Every 1 Stamina means 50 potential rounds in any playmode with normal status when Stamina is less than 80, so if I lose 10 Stamina, that means I lost 500 potential rounds with potential drops from every monster.

Considering I'm used to play at least 2k rounds daily, that's 1/4 of my routine forcibly cut out, and even if I spend 1 ED to continue playing, I'm just wasting money, as using an ED won't be as effective as before in my case, who flees and restarts grindfests often.

So yeah, if it costs 1 Stamina to enter a grindfest and it's gone forever, then it's completely stupid, and it's a bullshit reason to implement this system just because of a full health exploit that should just use the player's draughts instead of stamina if exploits were expected and unwanted in the first place.

So... can we have an official statement on this matter?

So far only other users have been saying this is right or wrong, but does 1 Stamina go *puff* every time a player enters grindfest, is it just the initial 50 round, or what is it?

+Edit

Tested it myself.

Waited for stamina to go up by one, did 199 rounds in grindfest.

Final result: 5 stamina consumed.

Can't check in any other way as there's no way to currently check stamina in battle. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

Please get rid of this system.

+Edit II

Just did The Trio and the Tree.

Consumed only 2 Stamina as it should with 100 rounds.

Not sure how Item World is working with this new system, but I won't be getting near GFs or IW's while this system is going on.

This post has been edited by Kinights: Jun 28 2017, 17:42

I guess it's time to put in my two cents worth on the Stamina in Grindfest situation. I have yet to try a Grindfest after the new update. But you're saying after fleeing at round 199 your Stamina is only down 5 points. How long were you in GF timewise? AFAIK under HV 0.84 you would lose 1 Stamina per 25 rounds in GF and if you stayed in for an hour and fled you would get back 1 Stamina, 2 hours, 2 Stamina and so forth. Almost sounds to me like you're losing less Stamina now than you would have before.

As for Item World, the Stamina is taken up front for all the rounds, so if it were 75 rounds that would only be 2 Stamina and you would probably get one of them back soon after completing IW.

So, I really cannot see what the big deal is. Unfortunately the only GF I have ever completed was a NormalFest, but for 1000 rounds that is a considerable amount of Stamina. The last one I did, I used 2 ED to keep my Stamina above 80 at the finish and I was in long enough that I was right back to 99 Stamina when I left.

Would someone like to tell me what happens under the new system for GF ? As far as I can determine from what I've read you lose 1 Stamina when you enter and that covers the first 50 rounds when you would, I assume, start losing 1 point per 25 rounds thereafter as before.

I guess it's time to put in my two cents worth on the Stamina in Grindfest situation. I have yet to try a Grindfest after the new update. But you're saying after fleeing at round 199 your Stamina is only down 5 points. How long were you in GF timewise? AFAIK under HV 0.84 you would lose 1 Stamina per 25 rounds in GF and if you stayed in for an hour and fled you would get back 1 Stamina, 2 hours, 2 Stamina and so forth. Almost sounds to me like you're losing less Stamina now than you would have before.

As for Item World, the Stamina is taken up front for all the rounds, so if it were 75 rounds that would only be 2 Stamina and you would probably get one of them back soon after completing IW.

So, I really cannot see what the big deal is. Unfortunately the only GF I have ever completed was a NormalFest, but for 1000 rounds that is a considerable amount of Stamina. The last one I did, I used 2 ED to keep my Stamina above 80 at the finish and I was in long enough that I was right back to 99 Stamina when I left.

Would someone like to tell me what happens under the new system for GF ? As far as I can determine from what I've read you lose 1 Stamina when you enter and that covers the first 50 rounds when you would, I assume, start losing 1 point per 25 rounds thereafter as before.

Stamina loss behaves with 1 stamina every 25 rounds if it's in the "Great" condition above 80, and 1 stamina every 50 rounds if it's in "Normal" condition above 10 and less than 80.

In my situation, I spent 1 hour inside the Grindfest. I started at 11:06AM local time when stamina had just turned into 58, and finished around 12:05(AM or PM?) local time, with the final result being 54 stamina.

In the 1 hour, I should have gained 1 Stamina and be at 55, but as you can see, I did less than 200 rounds and still used 5 stamina in total.

Stamina loss behaves with 1 stamina every 25 rounds if it's in the "Great" condition above 80, and 1 stamina every 50 rounds if it's in "Normal" condition above 10 and less than 80.

In my situation, I spent 1 hour inside the Grindfest. I started at 11:06AM local time when stamina had just turned into 58, and finished around 12:05(AM or PM?) local time, with the final result being 54 stamina.

In the 1 hour, I should have gained 1 Stamina and be at 55, but as you can see, I did less than 200 rounds and still used 5 stamina in total.

I'm going to get this horribly wrong, I'm sure, but here is some maths

Assuming everything yourself and diodo have said is correct:

200 rounds per hour
1 stam regen per hour
99 to 80 stam = 1 loss per 25 rounds
79 to 10 stam = 1 loss per 50 rounds

For a highend grinder like yourself, it is most economical to keep your stam between 10 and 79, so lets start with 79 stam.
You said you do 2000 rounds per day, with 250 rounds per grindfest. That's 8 GFs per day:

GF 1:
Minus 1 stam to enter
Minus 5 stam for 250 round flee
Plus 1 stam regen for 1.25 hours of play
Stam remaining: 74

GF 2:
Same as GF 1
Stam remaining: 69

GF 3:
Same as GF 1
Stam remaining: 64

GF 4:
Minus 1 stam to enter
Minus 5 stam for 250 round flee
Plus 2 stam regen for 1.25 hours of play (adding the 0.25 remainder hours from each of the first 4 rounds)
Stam remaining: 60

GF 5:
Same as GF 1
Stam remaining: 55

GF 6:
Same as GF 1
Stam remaining: 50

GF 7:
Same as GF 1
Stam remaining: 45

GF 8:
Same as GF 4
Stam remaining: 41

You have how completed 2000 grindfest rounds in 10 hours, and it's time to sleep:
Minus 1 stam for REs etc
Plus 14 stam from the remainder 14 hours in the day.
Stam remaining: 54

1 ED with LGBD(TQIA+++ lol) = plus 20 stam
Stam remaining: 74

Net loss of 5 stam per day. Half an ED per day assuming you play 10 hours per day, 7 days per week, with no breaks...

If you're dedicating THAT much time to the game, it kinda feels like you can afford 1 more ED per 4000 rounds. Hell you probably make that and more just from your precursor drops.
Also, don't forget we now have caffeinated candies that recover 5 stam per day pill, so in all likelihood the price oF EDs will drop a little...

Is this what you're taking issue with? 3.5 more EDs in a 70 hour gaming week?
Did I misunderstand something? Have I got the maths wrong?

This post has been edited by The Original Zeo: Jun 29 2017, 00:04

I'm going to get this horribly wrong, I'm sure, but here is some maths

-lots of correct math-

If you're dedicating THAT much time to the game, it kinda feels like you can afford 1 more ED per 4000 rounds. Hell you probably make that and more just from your precursor drops.
Also, don't forget we now have caffeinated candies that recover 5 stam per day pill, so in all likelihood the price oF EDs will drop a little...

Is this what you're taking issue with? 3.5 more EDs in a 70 hour gaming week?
Did I misunderstand something? Have I got the maths wrong?

Yep, it's all right.

Math shows that I have no life. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Anyways, yep, I have an issue with having EDs being less effective than before for a bullshit reason.

If Tenboro wants to avoid people exploiting full health, he should have made the full health when exiting battle consume draughts instead of implementing new stamina restrictions in Grindfest and Item World.

Cost of draughts <<<<<<<<< Cost of Stamina

I'm going to get this horribly wrong, I'm sure, but here is some maths

Assuming everything yourself and diodo have said is correct

...

Not that easy as you think.

1 ED with hath perk restores 20 stamina per day
1 ED = 105k / 1 stamina = 5,250 credits

Even with all supportive scrolls its just too hard to survive at deep rounds for high level mega player in x20 difficulty Grindfest. that's why i always flee in about 100~150 round without scrolls ( with scrolls i can barely survive at about 300 rounds )

Its just not worthy of spending 5,250 credits for playing few hundred rounds in Grindfest.
Actually you can't even earn the cost back without Crystarium and Long Gone Before Daylight hath perks.

Player can still play grindfest in low difficulty for deeper round or whole round for that 1 stamina spending.
that's why i mention that in #456.
Would this patch just encourage people playing grindfest in low difficulty ?

This post has been edited by diodo: Jun 29 2017, 01:21

Not that easy as you think.

1 ED with hath perk restores 20 stamina per day
1 ED = 105k / 1 stamina = 5,250 credits

Even with all supportive scrolls its just too hard to survive at deep rounds for high level mega player in x20 difficulty Grindfest. that's why i always flee in about 100~150 round without scrolls ( with scrolls i can barely survive at about 300 rounds )

Its just not worthy of spending 5,250 credits for playing few hundred rounds in Grindfest.

Player can still play grindfest in low difficulty for deeper round or whole round for that 1 stamina spending.
that's why i mention that in #456.
Would this patch just encourage people playing grindfest in low difficulty ?

Pretty much this.

I can possibly go until round 500 without many issues, but then it will affect my Random Encounter schedule, as my t/s is quite crappy, and now that a new CracklingCast is on "probation", my playspeed is even less effective than before.

If I were to do 11x 200 round runs, then it's 11 Stamina down the drain, so 55k credit cost daily.

Considering I started doing grindfests expecting a minimun profit of 100k, it would be better to just go back to doing daily arenas, but it's quite bitter having to do this after getting LGBD, Token II and Dæmon Duality for the sake of having a better time playing solely on grindfests.

Then...

Hellfests aren't a thing anymore, as no heavy grinder would grind on a difficulty that has drop penalities.

Difficulty modifier also comes mostly from level, so after level 400, with at least a x3 health modifier, options are:
- x4.8 at Nintendo,
- x5.4 at IWBTH
- x6 at PFUDOR

Quite different form the previous x2.8(Hell), x5(Nintendo), x7.8(IWBTH) and x8(PFUDOR).

With this, there should be no real point to playing a Ninfest, as clearspeed should be around the same to a PFUDORfest, with the difference being worse drops, so it's better to just go with max difficulty.

So... since the start all I saw was a painful nerf to mid range players that play grindfests, like me.

Of course, this also affects the people who do a full grindfest without fleeing, but the effects are much less noticeable than for people who flee midway.

This post has been edited by Kinights: Jun 29 2017, 01:29

- An alternative utilitarian (and easier skinnable) left-to-right vital bar with numeric overcharge readout was added. This can be chosen under Settings.

- The normal vital bar now shows a numerical readout for the current health if it can fit within the bar (>6% health - missing numbers should be read as "heal plz").

- The vital bar charge pips were moved above the health bar, and visually tweaked somewhat. A final faded-out pip will now be displayed if you have between 10 and 24 points towards the next pip. The pips will also change color if you are at max charges.

Thanks for adding a numerical HP display to the new battle UI, it's much more functional now. Adding a second, bare-bones UI mode specifically to make scripting easier is just icing on the cake!

Don't really need the utilitarian interface myself (the only thing I really use OC for is Focusing to recover MP, or sometimes concussive strike, and making the actual HP number visible fixed the glaring flaw with the standard interface), and I like having the HP bar be more prominent than the MP/SP bars, so I'll stick with standard for now.

- Fixed a bug where powerup gems dropped during a battle round would not be available until end of the round or a different item was used.

Oh, nice. That was annoying, but not critical.

This post has been edited by conundrum: Jun 29 2017, 01:56

I know I am many pages late, but I'm on the boat it should be more on the side where Difficulty had a larger impact on HP (clear speeds) than level. Since sometimes you just want to clear fast to complete for the day and get some reward over not being able to finish and get no reward. I think I get why you want to encourage4 it, but why not take away the penalties for arenas or think of a different balance goal on the penalties?

Ps. likey the new old hp bars

Suggestion: toggle on monster lab that makes it so you dont feed/drug unlocked slot plz?

Maybe remove arena stamina consumption? Possibly with the combination that you are always "normal" in arenas, no bonuses/penalties based on stam (besides no drops due to failed riddles?)

Just curious, has something changed about the enforcement of the speed limit?
Since 0.85 landed I saw a drop in speed with all the browsers, and even in RoB when keeping the number key pressed I cannot go over 3.3/3.4 t/s, while before it was easy to get 3.8/3.9 t/s.

i noted that from 1- t/s now i'm at 2+, if that can help. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I'm still at 3 s/t...

Yep. s/t. Not a typo.

i noted that from 1- t/s now i'm at 2+, if that can help. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I am not talking about scenarios where speed is limited by your connection or your browser, but limited by server-side code.
If I remember correctly when I observed the ajax call in the Chrome network tab the ms needed to process them was between 80 and 330ms.
Without server-side limiting I guess the average would be 90-100ms or something like that (and >6 t/s probably, but I have no idea how much time is spent on page rendering so it's just a wild guess).

I am not talking about scenarios where speed is limited by your connection or your browser, but limited by server-side code.

i don't know. nothing changed these days apart for the patch. so i was wrong thinking bad of my (maybe poorly configurated, but still...) router (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If I remember correctly when I observed the ajax call in the Chrome network tab the ms needed to process them was between 80 and 330ms.
Without server-side limiting I guess the average would be 90-100ms or something like that (and >6 t/s probably, but I have no idea how much time is spent on page rendering so it's just a wild guess).

i wouldn't be so satisfied with 6 t/s either, or even above. if you'll use a hovering script in such conditions, you'll have too little time to fix an eventual mistake and most likely the number of kills would increase. i think that putting a hardcap has the side effect of keeping players safe.

i wouldn't be so satisfied with 6 t/s either, or even above. if you'll use a hovering script in such conditions, you'll have too little time to fix an eventual mistake and most likely the number of kills would increase. i think that putting a hardcap has the side effect of keeping players safe.

Whatever, that's not why I posted here, if HV is meant to limit to 4 t/s and in reality you cannot reach more than 85% of that speed that's something strange going on.
Since I tested with:
- Firefox (hoverplay and keeping number pressed)
- Chrome (hoverplay and chain attack)
And got similar results, I don't think that is a browser problem, and seeing that some request are very fast it shouldn't be a connection problem either.

Since my last current reasonable assumption is that something changed server-side I'm asking Tenboro.
And note that I'm not saying I want a higher limit or that HV is slow and needs to be fixed.

Whatever, that's not why I posted here, if HV is meant to limit to 4 t/s and in reality you cannot reach more than 85% of that speed that's something strange going on.
Since I tested with:
- Firefox (hoverplay and keeping number pressed)
- Chrome (hoverplay and chain attack)
And got similar results, I don't think that is a browser problem, and seeing that some request are very fast it shouldn't be a connection problem either.

Since my last current reasonable assumption is that something changed server-side I'm asking Tenboro.
And note that I'm not saying I want a higher limit or that HV is slow and needs to be fixed.

This might be just anecdotal, but I've noticed a slight drop in speed too. At least it feels to me that hoverplay used to be a bit faster in 0.84, I dunno.

Also, do we have a working t/s tracking script now? Or are you just estimating those values?