[X] My Assistant

So any idea why the sudden hate for LWND? Seems to be organized by some off-site forum, since we clearly have dozens of people 1-starring his galleries. Well, that, or someone is socking.

Any idea why? I mean, I personally am sometimes pissed by low quality scans, but better crappy scan than no scan, and I don't see other mediocre scans 1-starred.

So what's going on? Someone told me that one or two scanners who release higher quality stuff through commissions are trying to harass low quality scanners as they think it edges into their commission business, but I find this explanation not very convincing (particularly since I have personally order high quality rescans of crappy scans at least twice, and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't have the crappy scans to look at in the first place, convincing me this dojin is worth bothering).

From where I stand, low quality scans are like samples - something to start and see if we want a higher quality one. They don't hurt anyone. So what's going on, really?

Finally, from where I stand, any and all scanners, even camera scanners, should be applauded. And seeing lurkers and other never-uploaders ranting about LWND makes me quite angry and leechers who can only criticize, and whose only contribution to the community is to harass those who share, potentially driving them away.

It's not just LWND getting harassed for posting what is seen as "low quality scans".

Thanks for creating a thread here, Red. Hopefully you'll be able to get a civil discussion going here with the many contributors on the Cove instead of the usual comment flamewars.
Couldn't have said it better, so not much to add. Something is always better than nothing and it can be replaced if you have a better quality upload or your own scans.
If those uploads hurt someone's moneymaking scheme, that is not the community's problem. Please check with your own lawyers.

The usual wiki reminder...

(IMG:https://ehwiki.org/images/2/28/Scan_Quality_Flowchart.png)

And thanks to all uploaders - regardless of the upload quality, you're doing the community a favor by sharing with the EH community.
Artists would have been completely unheard of without those uploads, and supporting them is the best way to show your good faith.

Please keep up the good work, everyone.

All this complaining about low quality scans makes me quite upset to be honest, there is already tons of art that never gets uploaded in any form, increasing that number really helps nobody at all.

As said earlier - the more scans the better. I'm just here to read the raws so as long as it's readable it's fine.

Since Blurk pointed this thread out in chat and said no one who doesn't like LQ scans is speaking up and I'm one of the ones who gets a little eye-rolly when he sees LQ stuff uploaded, I figure I'll toss in my two cents. The 'hate' for LWND isn't sudden, really. It's always been there. Heck it's not all that different from when pop9 was big, or when Nasen was big, or any of the other people who make their E-H careers from stealing scans, uploading them without source, and claiming that upscales are higher quality.

My only real issue is that LWND, Blurk, et al don't just post where they got them from. It gives off the impression that these are their personal scans, when in fact they're from Doujin Antena or other LQ scan aggregate sites. I don't claim to speak for all of the people who go around 1-starring LQ scans, but personally speaking that's my beef.

As for the flowchart above, well, check my name on the galleries sometime. I'm sure I'll be just fine. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

My only real issue is that LWND, Blurk, et al don't just post where they got them from. It gives off the impression that these are their personal scans, when in fact they're from Doujin Antena or other LQ scan aggregate sites.

Why is that a problem? Thanks to these uploaders, you don't have to know where the scans came from. Or would you prefer to instate a rule where galleries are replaceable without a Doujin Antena link, like how CG sets are replaceable without a cover?

I don't think it's rule-worthy at all. It's annoying because it's kinda disingenuous, but that's hardly something punishable or expungeable. I mean, like I said, this has been going on for at least a decade now starting with pop9, and that's only counting how long I've been around the Galleries.

There's always going to be people who don't like these type of things. Not going to lie but I'm one of those who don't support these uploads. Although, I don't support comments of "Go die" and other comments of that nature.

The way I see it is it's like watching a video on youtube or something. You'll always get people saying if they recorded it with a potato or why didn't they record it horizontal. God forbid watching anime 180p. Streaming sites like crunchyroll would probably get a lot of grief if they only stream on that resolution. People are going to be people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Some users think LWND is responsible for kouya913 leaving. I don't know where the truth lies, it's just what I read in the comments sections of some of LWND's galleries. It's particularly visible since only LWND seems to get 1-starred (other uploaders who upload galleries of the same quality have much higher ratings than he does).

As for me, I rate galleries what I feel they're worth. I don't enjoy LQ scans as much as HQ ones, so I give them a lower rating. Usually not 0.5 or 1, but somewhere between 2 and 4, depending on whether I liked the contents. It doesn't mean that I think they're worse than no scans at all. It just means I didn't enjoy them as much as other scans.
Ratings are supposed to reflect the quality of a gallery. If the scans are of lower quality, why shouldn't they be rated lower?

Also, as a scientist:

particularly since I have personally order high quality rescans of crappy scans at least twice, and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't have the crappy scans to look at in the first place, convincing me this dojin is worth bothering

That's not an argument. LQ scans have some good and bad effects on the community as a whole, and they're much too complex to say whether they're beneficial in general or not. As you said, seeing LQ scans will make some people commission better scans. But on the other hand, kouya913 repeated that he didn't like the attitude of some other scanners/uploaders (whether it was LQ scans or scanning too soon after events), so LQ scans are one of the reasons why he quit.
We'd need a scientific study to know whether LQ scans are beneficial or not, but I'm not sure anyone's going to fund research to publish "On the impact of low-quality scanning among illegal fan-based Japanese cartoon porn communities"...

i'm not exactly a fan of LQ scans either, tbh - but why should an uploader be pissed by them? if a better content doesn't exist, then the community will at least have a copy of that thing. crappy, but still a copy.
if a better content does exist, most likely an uploader will be able to find it. or at least, a few of them since the mole of LQ works uploaded is really big. mind you, this also brings to the uploader the credit for having improved the current situation.

but i'm a bit ignorant on this subject, so i may have missed something - but never had an answer to this question... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

kouya913 never left the place. He's using this as an excuse, and we obviously know he's still around.

Next argument, please. We need information, not wannabe martyrs.

Low quality scans sucks. There many doujins that are no longer in production, not available digitally and can't be found in the used market internationally or in Japan. It is a waste of a book to scan it in a low quality, especially since after scanning, most of these books go to the trash anyway if not used as toilet paper.

It is understandable if the scans are uploaded a decade ago but we're now in 2017, scanners are cheap nowadays. The problem is that many of these low quality uploaders are motivated financially to produce scans as fast as they can with as little effort as possible.

To those leaning on low quality scans, could you please think about the editors? Typesetting is a pain in the ass, it is long, boring and requires skill especially if you are redrawing. If Editors/Typesetters only have low quality scans in front of them, it destroys them emotionally. I can only imagine how much self loathing they are building inside while they are editing. Also low quality scans are depriving the community of the real beauty of a book's art. as well as disrespecting the creator since uninformed readers might think the low quality scans are actually representations of the creator's artwork.

Then again, most of the uploaders of the low quality scans in this site are only ripping them from somewhere, so it's really pointless of trying to call out the actual uploaders here. Even if we have a great discussion in this thread, our words won't reach them. Also, if you aren't the actual scanner, why do you care about the ratings of your galleries which are made up of scans ripped or upscaled from someone else? You didn't even put any effort in scanning them. I don't know anything about LWND's situation but if he isn't ranting about low ratings, he probably doesn't care.

To all Editors/Typesetters out there, I thank you with all my heart for working with horrible scans just to release something for free. Majority of the readers in the site don't even appreciate the hard work you do. It's always thank for "the translation", not "editing/typesetting".

This post has been edited by shakuganaexa: May 24 2017, 01:52

As a viewer, I would agree that "something is better than nothing", except for the real "samples" galleries. The situation would appeal more to me if all LQ galleries got 0.5/1-starred but seems only that LWND guy got treated this way.

As an uploader though, I would be reluctant to upload an alternate scan if there's one already, unless I really love that book and the uploaded one looks really nasty. But I never got real money for uploading stuff so I may have a different view than some others.

Tolerating LQ scans doesn't mean we support them over high-quality scans which are obviously better. This is why we love HQ scanners. But no one forces them to replace LQ with HQ, so they have no real incentive to complain about it being a waste of money... unless, of course, there's a money scheme behind this.

Such scans are to stay until they are replaced; some of them are there since 2007. If you can't find better, they either don't exist or you can't afford them, and causing flamewars just because you don't like low-quality scans will not magically make it appear.

The sample tag did not cause nearly as much strife, so there's definitely a monetary reason behind this.

And thanks a lot for the input StonyCat, Devildie and others. No one told you to start liking LQ scans, so that's perfectly reasonable; if someone is doing this out of malice, it's different than if they were doing this because it's the only version available. If a book already exists, there's no reason for a lower quality to exist and the LQ gets expunged. :)

We're getting mixed signals from the biggest flamewar-driver (who incidentally is uploading LQ scans as released) and people uploading waifu2x'd versions. While people tend to prefer waifu2x'd versions, those can *still* be replaced.

I'd like to hear about pop9's take on this as well, if he visits the Cove, as he has uploaded both LQ and HQ scans, and provided sources to the original doujinantena links.

To those leaning on low quality scans, could you please think about the editors? Typesetting is a pain in the ass, it is long, boring and requires skill especially if you are redrawing. If Editors/Typesetters only have low quality scans in front of them, it destroys them emotionally. I can only imagine how much self loathing they are building inside while they are editing. Also low quality scans are depriving the community of the real beauty of a book's art. as well as disrespecting the creator since uninformed readers might think the low quality scans are actually representations of the creator's artwork.

It's a double edged sword with editing, wherein even great scans will destroy you mentally if you're not invested in the work.... but I digress, it does ruin the potential of GREAT scans if the first person just doesn't do an optimal job to begin with. And I'm strictly addressing people that do actual scanning whether it's a one time thing or they're consistent, but when you're doing it, try to do it right once and for all or pass the work onto someone who will do it great for you (*wink!*).

Doubling down on this, once said bad scans being running through the translations it becomes even less of a bother to redo the scans unless you're super passionate for the works. I know I've done a few myself, but it ultimately came from personal desire, like that Acid-Head book with Nami/Kalifa, I went so far as to asking Saha himself for those scans only to be denied because they were restricted by the translation commissioner, so I said "Fuck that noise" and lead my campaign onto getting bigger scans than what we previously had. There's something there about this probably being 1 HQ rescan for every 50 bad scans, but you get the idea.

It gives off the impression that these are their personal scans...

Only to you. Most people are quite capable of comprehending that the internet is a wide and varied place, and that there are ways to get scans other than physically making them yourself.

To those leaning on low quality scans, could you please think about the editors?

There's so much content uploaded that's worth translating and editing now that there's no reason to go punish yourself editing LQ stuff unless you want to. This isn't nazi boot camp where editors must slave until their fingers bleed and their styluseses wear into nubbins.

If it's not fun, don't do it maybe?

To be clear, I find it mildly irritating when a LQ scan turns up, especially if it's something that I would have worked on. But as someone with a "To Do" folder that's clearing a thousand items, I just ignore it.

This post has been edited by StatisticallyNP: May 24 2017, 11:09

I went so far as to asking Saha himself for those scans only to be denied because they were restricted by the translation commissioner, so I said "Fuck that noise"

Ha. Now here's something that gets my blood boiling: the selfish jerks who don't share stuff. I am not complaining (much) about SaHa, but the fact that there are people (could be just one, really... dunno) who commissioned him (taking his time) and then didn't share the resulting translation. What kind of mtf selfish jerk you have to be to jack off to a work and deny it to others? By extension, whatever mtf jerk refused to share scans with Shanko, I can't begin to describe how much I despise such selfish ilk.

Anyway, I think it's clear and common sensical we all prefer high quality scans, but there is no indication that low quality is actually hurting anyone. As someone who interacts a lot with editors and translators, I do know how annoying LQ stuff can be, and that it sometimes means a project will take much longer (or even not be attempted at all). But again, if this is the case, it's pointless to blame to original scanner for doing the shoddy job. Much less even blaming someone who uploads crappy scans they found elsewhere. If that's all we have, that's all we have. If we want better, a dedicated fan needs to shell out both time and money to find, scan or sponsor a better work.

Flaming low quality uplaoders is stupid, and damaging, as it may actually make some of them go away. Not a big problem if they are uploading from some Japanese sites or networks, someone else will step in. But if this becomes too commonplace, because some trolls encouraged with how easy it is to complain about LWND become bolder and go after others, we risk loosing some more valuable contributions. Like, hypothetically, a guy who found an old drive full of early 2000s scans we are missing, but then thinks 'oh, e-h people hate low scans, so I won't bother uploading them'. Let's avoid this, and if you see people complaining about LWND, I suggest you tell them to produce better scans or shut up (per the site mods endorsed infographic reproduced at the beginning of this thread).

For me a scan is a scan and it is a treasure, while HQ should be on a higher priority than LQ. Thus, if we are talking anout Japanese scan then it is even better, all those doujins with Korean/ Chinese translations but no original language scan really pissed me off so whether it is a LQ or a HQ, both is fine to me. My situation here tho, although I really like a certain artist and really want to translate his works as much as I can, the guy isn't very popular and hardly anyone even think about scanning those doujins, if you are in such a situation like me I don't think you would even care about the scan being HQ or LQ.


Editing on the other hand tho is one hell of a problem, I have worked with a lot of LQ scans before and it was no joke doing redraw and stuffs, not to mention sometimes the handwritten lines were too blurry to even translate, but I think if you are not doing it for commission or money then rather let your passion keep you going, or drop it ( sometimes editing those LQ scans were too much of a pain in the neck I have to stopped half way for a week or two, then resume the progress).

I thought it was the standard kr vs cn downvote wars but apparently that is not the case, its not like LWND purposely down scales specific scans, I believe something > nothing in all cases except samples, fuck samples and yet I still do not down vote those. Haters going to be haters I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Think it'll improve if the rating was public? (eg. the comments scoring section)

We need a group of people (I'm willing to join this too) that is dedicated to produce higher quality scans of older doujins. If each of the group members can give out £10 -£20 per month, we can use that money to go bargain hunting for used doujins in Nagomi, Mandarake and Surugaya. There are so many classic doujins that are less than 200 yen. I got a quite a few old doujins that I got less than 200 yen that I haven't scanned yet

The only major problems are the need for a willing scanner (Perhaps we can pay him with credits and hath?) and shipping costs to deliver the goods to the scanner.

What do you think, guys?