[X] My Assistant

...

Which is what exactly? How are the drops calculated? Or more specifically, how many different rolls are there to determine if something drops, what type it is, quality, etc.?

I know enough about statistics to know that means it's actually far less than a 5% chance.

Okaaay.. first there is a roll to see if you get anything at all. This is always true for arenas. For monsters it's around 10% for most, but this increases by a certain factor for boss monsters and legendaries, depending on their stats. Then there's a roll to determine if you get an item or a piece of equipment. The vast majority of the time this will land on an item, again unless there is a boss monster or higher involved. Then there is a third roll to determine what type of item you get, namely if it's a consumable or an artifact. Again the odds are heavily in favor of a consumable. At this point, a final two rolls are made, one for the type of consumable and one for the quality of the item. There's about a 90% chance to get a restorative of some kind (60% health, 25% mana, 5% spirit). It then looks up the item in a quality table to determine if it's a crude, lesser, average etc item, by using the quality roll combined with a quality bonus determined from the round counter, the difficulty level, the monster stats, monster hp bonus and monster spirit power. Then it returns a final array of items that can be picked, and in the case of restoratives, it's 50/50 between a draught and a potion, unless you land on elixir quality which is just one possibility.

And I'm going to gloss right over the possibility of getting an elixir through the 0.2% "special drop" code path.

So you tell me.

5 rolls >.<

All hope is lost. I could ask you about specific numbers for each roll to determine the exact probability, but I think I'd rather not. I know what I find would only be further depressing. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

i thought it was just me
has slowed to a crawl, hasn't it

edit:
seem to be getting a good bit in the arena
maybe we're just having horrible luck in grindfest

For most of the early arena challenges, I play on normal and spam magic missile to up my elemental proficiency. During the first 5 challenges, I bet I gained more elemental proficiency than that for my equipment even though my elemental proficiency is over 42 and one of my equipment proficiencies is .18...

@Tenb:

Okaaay.. first there is a roll to see if you get anything at all. This is always true for arenas. For monsters it's around 10% for most, but this increases by a certain factor for boss monsters and legendaries, depending on their stats.

I think this is my biggest beef right here. I would ask that you consider putting in a multiplier of some sort for the chance of getting a drop at all based on the round level and difficulty, since currently this means there's no higher chance of getting an item on round 100 of grindfest on battletoads than on round 1 on normal, just that it's more likely to be of higher quality. Given the fact that we're very, very likely to use up lots of items to get to higher rounds, I'd think it would make sense to make the chance of getting any item at all increase slightly as you get further along (though hopefully the increase wouldn't start at round 100, seeing as I can barely get past round 20 on easy).

I do realize you'd have to make sure that someone like Hito or Panda can't simply get to round 300 of grindfest and get 10 items per round, but I bet you could figure out some way to balance that, probably based on the player's level, number of item slots/items used by that round, etc.

Maybe even put a simple counter in, so that every round an item isn't dropped (or more realistically every couple rounds) there's a slightly higher chance of getting one the next round, and then reset it each time an item is found (obviously this increase would be smaller per tick for grindfest than for arena). <- forget that

Then there's a roll to determine if you get an item or a piece of equipment. The vast majority of the time this will land on an item... it's 50/50 between a draught and a potion, unless you land on elixir quality which is just one possibility.

I am impressed with myself; I predicted that almost perfectly. I just wasn't sure about what things were involved in the quality bonus calculation, nor if the chance between potion and draught was 50/50. And I was under this weird impression that difficulty level affected the base chance of getting any drop at all, which is probably partially why I'm so annoyed that it doesn't.

I do so look forward to your reply ^^

This post has been edited by DemonEyesBob: Aug 10 2009, 20:27

Weaken was always 50% per point since the patch, I pointed that out in a post pretty early in this thread but forgot to update the patch notes.

Something tells me you did not mean 50% per point.

quoting to receive a thourogh answer

1) 15% per point (75% 5pt weaken)
or
2) 10% per point (50% 5pt weaken)

patchnotes say it should be 75%, field experiance however says ist more likely 50%. im getting wrecked because of it. my intuition tells me that it could have something to do with piercing dmg that peacocks toss at me. it hurts none the less, especially when a second piercing dmg mob is amongst my opponents.

previous post

Uhm.. yeah, remember how I said I couldn't make up my mind whether to put weaken at 50% or 75% reduction? The notes said 75%, but the code said 50%, and as usual in those cases, the code wins. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

so yeh, it's going to be 50%, regardless of what the op post says

This post has been edited by Ebil☆Panda: Aug 10 2009, 21:04

ah ok

i somehow read a "but i'll change it to 75%" between the lines.

i would appreciate 75%, especially since i just faced a manthra in final round of a new beginning wich hit me for 120+elec dmg three times thanks to restoring mana. my max hp is at 365 for comparrision. lousy way to lose 600c and three potions. having 3 further mobs to deal with didnt help in that situation.

This post has been edited by Third_Reighn: Aug 10 2009, 21:28

Something tells me you did not mean 50% per point.
quoting to receive a thourogh answer

1) 15% per point (75% 5pt weaken)
or
2) 10% per point (50% 5pt weaken)

patchnotes say it should be 75%, field experiance however says ist more likely 50%. im getting wrecked because of it. my intuition tells me that it could have something to do with piercing dmg that peacocks toss at me. it hurts none the less, especially when a second piercing dmg mob is amongst my opponents.

I bet he meant 10% per point (50% 5pt weaken) which means from the about 90% that it was, this is just crap.

Need to mention, from about 20 random encounters i fought till now, i did not get any item at all.
Just fought Arena challenges up to (including) A new beginning and got- lesser health potion, scroll of swiftness and godly mana potion. On this i spent 2 godly mana potions, scroll of warding and 3 godly health potions which btw were my last, so i won't be able to do a new beginning until i get some more, which by the way could be weeks with this impossible drop rate. This is all on normal difficulty and i don't even have the chance for higher settings.

To sum it all up: With weaken being useless, them regenerating mana and casting more deadly spells, thus being able to play lot LESS rounds + the so much lowered item drop rate the probability for a drop goes even more downwards and the usage of potions went upwards.
The only plus side i see is that you can now find weapons and armor (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Oops snap (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) you can't because the chance for something like that is like 0? That is at least for us on lower levels. When,(if) you ever get higher up, than you probably have a better chance.

I'm really sorry but am i the only one seing something wrong here?

I understand Tenboro that you tried to make the game more enjoyable, but you just made it a bit more difficult for those on high levels, and for others on low/lower levels it has become nearly impossible and very annoying to play. And i don't know how others, but i started to play this to have some fun and not to strugle with impossible. Remember Diablo II? This is the same like going to the cow level with level1. Moo Moo (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I beg you to reconsider some of those changes you made, especialy Weaken and item drop rate. That should not be so difficult to fix and would take the game back to its rails.

This post has been edited by Lunatic2: Aug 10 2009, 21:35

I'm just skipping trying to do A New Beginning now cause ever since I've first cleared it I've only beaten it once. My guess is that with cure and shield and lvl 40 (after training proficiencies in grindfest) it'll become a lot easier. Seeing as you're only 2 lvls from that yourself, you should get over that small hump soon.

@Tenb:

I think this is my biggest beef right here. I would ask that you consider putting in a multiplier of some sort for the chance of getting a drop at all based on the round level and difficulty, since currently this means there's no higher chance of getting an item on round 100 of grindfest on battletoads than on round 1 on normal, just that it's more likely to be of higher quality. Given the fact that we're very, very likely to use up lots of items to get to higher rounds, I'd think it would make sense to make the chance of getting any item at all increase slightly as you get further along (though hopefully the increase wouldn't start at round 100, seeing as I can barely get past round 20 on easy).

That's already done, seeing as you face more monsters and thus get a higher chance of one of them dropping stuff. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I'm just skipping trying to do A New Beginning now cause ever since I've first cleared it I've only beaten it once. My guess is that with cure and shield and lvl 40 (after training proficiencies in grindfest) it'll become a lot easier. Seeing as you're only 2 lvls from that yourself, you should get over that small hump soon.

Yeah, i am waiting for that like flesh-fly for a pile of cow shit. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
But what about the poor guys on even lower levels? If i were strugling on much lower level myself and haven't paid Tenboro for the gold star, i'd just quit playing cause it would not be worth the time. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

This post has been edited by Lunatic2: Aug 10 2009, 22:30

So now can I get an answer on why boss monsters now give out less exp all of a sudden? I also saw BBgr post about the same thing

That's already done, seeing as you face more monsters and thus get a higher chance of one of them dropping stuff. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

*Sigh* I left that out on purpose because I was talking about raw drop rate. My original text went something along the lines of:

I would ask that you consider putting in a multiplier of some sort for the chance of getting a drop at all based on the round level and difficulty, since currently this means there's no higher chance of getting an item on round 100 of grindfest on battletoads than on round 1 on normal (excluding the fact that 100 on battletoads would be all bosses and/or mini-bosses and so you would have an increased chance assuming you won), just that it's more likely to be of higher quality.

But I took it out because I overuse parenthesis as it is (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) and because my whole argument is for a modifier to the base drop rate in based on difficulty.

This post has been edited by DemonEyesBob: Aug 11 2009, 01:36

I'm just skipping trying to do A New Beginning now cause ever since I've first cleared it I've only beaten it once. My guess is that with cure and shield and lvl 40 (after training proficiencies in grindfest) it'll become a lot easier. Seeing as you're only 2 lvls from that yourself, you should get over that small hump soon.

I can BARELY beat a new beginning with 2 good healing potions and 3 mana potions. Anything after that is a waste of credits cause you're gonna die unless you're uber level, and even then that may be questionable. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I've never gotten an elixir - it seems its easier to get an equipment piece (I've got two) than one of those.

I do think that one gets stronger (more durable) as you progress through levels. I can last more rounds now then I did when I started, and in few cases I lasted 10 rounds in the grind - and I am looking forward to many dozens or hundreds reported by high level players.

That said I agree that there should be some additional factor increasing drop quantity/quality with rounds level, the growing number of monsters I don't think really does it.

PS. As for weaken, I've given up on it completely post-patch. It used to be useful with one ability point, now one is a joke and it seems I'd get less bang even with all five points compared with pre-patch times.

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: Aug 11 2009, 01:08

@Tenb: Completely unrelated question to before. Second wind tends to occur once or twice every for 15+ rounds, and then happen 5+ times in a row. Is this on purpose? It seems to happen that way too often to simply be chance.

Also unrelated: Do you think you could have an undo for ability points? Just for the last point you've added (you could only until you add another point). And/or, eventually, some way to save your current selection of abilities and simply switch back and forth. vvv I love how my ideas evolve as I'm writing them.

edit: I know that kinda beats the point of the ability reset cost, but I honestly don't know why you have that in the first place (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) I essentially don't see why I can't test out something new (since I just turned level 80, let's say blind) without needing to reset my whole ability tree if I don't like it or if it doesn't work with my strategy. And there are tons of combinations I'd like to test out; it's one of the best ways to figure out a strategy and improve on it. And with the constant changes to the dynamic *cough* weaken *cough* elemental ratings *cough* aoe *cough* we should be able to test out new strategies in a more effective way, and it's really annoying when you need to reset the chart if you dislike one change you made, let alone several. I really want to be able to easy and quickly test out different combinations of abilities. Oh hey, I guess I'm arguing for a complete revamp of how the ability chart works lol (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) <3Tenb

I've got a setup I like pretty well, and I've got 10 unused points. I want to try sleep + poison, I want to try putting them into spirit, I want to try shadow veil + most other things, I really want to try spending them on meteor and hellfire (since that will be the first element that I have 2 sets of ratings for since they were swapped around). That should be part of the fun of the game, trying out new things and seeing what you can do with it.

This post has been edited by DemonEyesBob: Aug 11 2009, 01:57

@Tenb: Completely unrelated question to before. Second wind tends to occur once or twice every for 15+ rounds, and then happen 5-6+ times in a row. Is this on purpose? It seems to happen that way too often to simply be chance.

Also unrelated: Do you think you could have an undo for ability points? Just for the last point you've added (you could only until you add another point). And/or, eventually, so way to save your current selection of abilities and simply switch back and forth. I know that kinda beats the point of the reset cost, but I honestly don't know why you have that in the first place >_>

Is there any chances we can have lowered or fixed ability reset cost? Or have the reset cost based on ranks? I want to try different abilities to see what works best for my character, but the reset cost can get high if I try it too often. Also, the battle system seem to get tweak so often that one strategy might work today, but might not work tomorrow.

This post has been edited by megaplayboy: Aug 11 2009, 01:47

While I agree that Weaken certainly seems to be not as effective as before Snowflake, I haven't had any problems with Challenge #6, A New Beginning. I think I've only lost once to it since Snowflake, and that was when she went live and I wasn't accustomed to the new changes. On Normal, I use maybe two or three health draughts or potions of average or so quality and I'm good. If you outright won't set Weaken to 75% reduction, I'd be happy with 60%.

I also like DemonEyesBob's idea of an Undo for the last AP. Maybe even the option to reset an entire tier for a smaller cost than the whole shebang.

And I agree, can we have a difficulty modifier for drop rates? A tiny one? Pretty please? With catgirls on top? I'm sitting here playing hourlies on Hard and the first four Arenas on Hard or higher and I'm getting squat while others gets boatloads of loot playing Grindfest on Cake. Its kinda frustrating and off-putting.

So now can I get an answer on why boss monsters now give out less exp all of a sudden? I also saw BBgr post about the same thing

What he said. Please. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So now can I get an answer on why boss monsters now give out less exp all of a sudden? I also saw BBgr post about the same thing

I already told you I haven't changed anything with regards to that.

@Tenb: Completely unrelated question to before. Second wind tends to occur once or twice every for 15+ rounds, and then happen 5+ times in a row. Is this on purpose? It seems to happen that way too often to simply be chance.

It's completely random.

Also unrelated: Do you think you could have an undo for ability points? Just for the last point you've added (you could only until you add another point). And/or, eventually, some way to save your current selection of abilities and simply switch back and forth. vvv I love how my ideas evolve as I'm writing them.

edit: I know that kinda beats the point of the ability reset cost, but I honestly don't know why you have that in the first place (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) I essentially don't see why I can't test out something new (since I just turned level 80, let's say blind) without needing to reset my whole ability tree if I don't like it or if it doesn't work with my strategy. And there are tons of combinations I'd like to test out; it's one of the best ways to figure out a strategy and improve on it. And with the constant changes to the dynamic *cough* weaken *cough* elemental ratings *cough* aoe *cough* we should be able to test out new strategies in a more effective way, and it's really annoying when you need to reset the chart if you dislike one change you made, let alone several. I really want to be able to easy and quickly test out different combinations of abilities. Oh hey, I guess I'm arguing for a complete revamp of how the ability chart works lol (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) <3Tenb

You do of course realize that those kinds of "convenience" changes take $hours I can use to actually make NEW stuff? No there will be no undo.

Is there any chances we can have lowered or fixed ability reset cost? Or have the reset cost based on ranks? I want to try different abilities to see what works best for my character, but the reset cost can get high if I try it too often. Also, the battle system seem to get tweak so often that one strategy might work today, but might not work tomorrow.

There will be regular resets of the reset counter. It already does cap, if you tend to reset it constantly.