[X] My Assistant

Crystals are great. Hath though...

2 Hath = 8100c
1 Artifact = 22000c

Do you buy all your artifacts and sell all your hath? Because if not, i dont get why those prices would matter.

That's... not how economics work. Both of those are liquid assets.

That's... not how economics work. Both of those are liquid assets.

Oh, economics. So those prices decide how many artifacts i drop? And those prices do also change how many hath i need for a perk? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

The correct answer for Uncle Stu's second question is no.

This post has been edited by PersonaFan08: Jan 26 2019, 09:49

Which second question? Overall or just in post #4583? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Which second question? Overall or just in post #4583? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Post #4583

You talking about if those prices change how much hath someone needs for a perk.

They don't change how much hath you need for a perk.

This post has been edited by PersonaFan08: Jan 26 2019, 10:06

Because you can get more bang for your bucks by selling artifacts and buying HA/Crystals directly. It's like buying a 20$ scratch ticket and winning a 5$ rolling pin and convincing yourself it's worth it, simply because you could use a rolling pin. The worthiness of shrining PAs depends on cost analysis based on market prices for the rewards, and how much you value the stat perks (which is solid, untradeable asset).

If it's less than PA market value, and you shrine it anyway, you're going to Vegas. Bad gambling essentially.

You talking about if those prices change how much hath someone needs for a perk.

So just in post 4583. Got it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

snip

Well, i see your point, but i dont agree. This is just overcalculating of something that is nothing but a really small part of the game. And if i would think like that, how could i give away free MG Materials, or free ED, or free crystals, or how could i make trades i in the end dont get as much as possible? And i do all those things fully aware, that i decrease my income with it. Because some things are not to be calculated or counted in credits, hath or any RL currency. So please tell me, how would it fit into your cold calculations to help others?

Same answer on why you gamble on shrining: you feel good doing it. Same reason why people play this game: they like doing it.

Cold calculation is what I like, and it's what I do. I don't have opinion about people gambling with PA/ED, nor do I know if it's worth it or not. Shrining is a personal choice, and it's always a gamble/investment.

And my point being: the prices matter, and it influence your decision on if it's worth it or not to buy/sell and shrine. They're very liquid assets, which makes calculation/estimation extremely easy.

Well, he could do that. The makeup is already here. Look at those eyes!

[imgur.com] (IMG:[i.imgur.com] http://i.imgur.com/EqHlnd4m.jpg)

I don't get it either when HV related hath perks exists and they can use the hath from shrining precursor artifacts.

That's one way to use hath from artifacts other than giving it away for credits.

I got my first perks solely with the hath drops from shrining. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Same answer on why you gamble on shrining:

But i dont gamble. I would gamble if i would trade ED for artifacts or something like that. But instead i just take what i get, no matter what it is.

So just in post 4583. Got it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Yes.

I got my first perks solely with the hath drops from shrining. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Congratulations. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But i dont gamble. I would gamble if i would trade ED for artifacts or something like that. But instead i just take what i get, no matter what it is.

This is loot box in a nutshell.

There's a lot to explain, and I really don't want to go deeper and deeper into the grayzone, so I'll keep it simple:

How much would you value an artifact? How much do you value the items you get from it? Is the overhead cost of trading (time and energy) worth the trouble? In your case I'd assume that it's not worth trading simply because the efforts involved is not worth your time. You take what you get, and you don't really care about it, like you've said it yourself, it's just a small part of the game. If you don't buy, you have no need to sell.

But I think we're coming from fundamental difference here: I'm saying that it's an inefficient, gamblish way to gather resources that you need. PA drops (and trophies) are the main assets of my daily income, as well as net worth. I don't think you're at a point where that stuff concerns you anymore.

How much would you value an artifact?

You mean precise? 1 artifact = 1 artifact.

How much do you value the items you get from it?

Every hath brings me closer to the next perk, every crystal will help to upgrade my monster, every elixier will make this nice little pile in my inventory bigger, every ED is a potential gift/more stamina to spend/potential credits. Does this answer your question?

Is the overhead cost of trading (time and energy) worth the trouble? In your case I'd assume that it's not worth trading simply because the efforts involved is not worth your time.

I just never did trade them, so i dont know. Maybe? Is maybe the correct answer here?

You take what you get, and you don't really care about it, like you've said it yourself, it's just a small part of the game. If you don't buy, you have no need to sell.

Where did i say i dont care? And yes, this includes not really.

But I think we're coming from fundamental difference here: I'm saying that it's an inefficient, gamblish way to gather resources that you need. PA drops (and trophies) are the main assets of my daily income, as well as net worth. I don't think you're at a point where that stuff concerns you anymore.

Really? I have never thought about PA actually been an important asset of income of someone. How much is it? 10~20% (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

This post has been edited by Uncle Stu: Jan 26 2019, 11:37

At this point I'm not sure if you're arguing for the sake of it, or trying to make a rational argument.

If trading is worth it (time, effort overhead included), and you're not trading, that's your own poor decision, not an argument.

10-20% isn't small, and in my case, it's ~50% of my converted net daily income. I also don't have the credit to burn, and the market prices for the drops matters, because I would be going nowhere getting 1k crystals from a PA when I could've just sold it for 12k crystals. I waste more time playing the game than to trade it for things I need to progress.

At this point I'm not sure if you're arguing for the sake of it, or trying to make a rational argument.

I say what i think about it. But if it help, i had give the how much an artifact is worth to me a bit more thoughts. And lets see, every artifact has the chance to bring you an ED, an LE, 2 Hath or 1k crystals. (I ignore the Bonus Attributes in this case because i got all of them so the chance for them is 0%) From what i have experience those four possible outcomes of shrining an artifact has the same chance aka 25%. RNG is a factor that lost its meaning when you just shrine enough of them. So Four artifacts are equal to 1 ED, 1 LE, 2 Hath and 1k crystals. The ED is lets just say 100k so it is easier to calculate, and LE is well lets see in WTS it is around 800~900c, so let us just take 800c, 2 Hath i would say we just calculate with 4k each so 8k both, and 1k crystals, well prices of loose crystals is 3 for mitigation and 4 for attributes so lets say 3.5 for a single crystal and that would be 3.5k for 1000 of them, that would be together 100k + 800 + 8k + 3.5k = 112300c for four artifacts. Divided by four that means a single artifact equal 28075c. Do you really get 28k per artifact? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) No, sorry. Trading them for 28 would even be a zero-sum game so to make profit with them you actually had to get more so imo at least 29k, but of course that would be a deficit for the buyer so i cant see that happen. Or does it? *sigh* Okay lets check what people pay for an artifact. Just checked and no one does pay near 28k for an artifact. So actually by selling them you give money away, not me. Yay. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

10-20% isn't small, and in my case, it's ~50% of my converted net daily income.

50%. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) How is that possible?

This post has been edited by Uncle Stu: Jan 26 2019, 12:17

I say what i think about it. But if it help, i had give the how much an artifact is worth to me a bit more thoughts. And lets see, every artifact has the chance to bring you an ED, an LE, 2 Hath or 1k crystals. (I ignore the Bonus Attributes in this case because i got all of them so the chance for them is 0%) From what i have experience those four possible outcomes of shrining an artifact has the same chance aka 25%. RNG is a factor that lost its meaning when you just shrine enough of them. So Four artifacts are equal to 1 ED, 1 LE, 2 Hath and 1k crystals. The ED is lets just say 100k so it is easier to calculate, and LE is well lets see in WTS it is around 800~900c, so let us just take 800c, 2 Hath i would say we just calculate with 4k each so 8k both, and 1k crystals, well prices of loose crystals is 3 for mitigation and 4 for attributes so lets say 3.5 for a single crystal and that would be 3.5k for 1000 of them, that would be together 100k + 800 + 8k + 3.5k = 112300c for four artifacts. Divided by four that means a single artifact equal 28075c. Do you really get 28k per artifact? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

50%. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) How is that possible?

You forgot that crystal have 40% drop chance, according to wiki.

Estimated worth vs trading price isn't that far apart for PA, (otherwise everyone would be buying PA and prices would go up until it is ~equal, law of large numbers).

And yeah, if I get ~2-3, it's easily 50% of my daily income, even more if I get lucky. Other than noodle, I get maybe ~20-30k of trophy drop a day. Didn't calculate gear, but at most 20-30k from bazaar/scrap.

I guess I forgot arena clear bonus, but that as well. It's more of a very low income boosting the PA % up.

You forgot that crystal have 40% drop chance, according to wiki.

Yeah, but the wiki was allready quite often wrong, so i no longer trust it. But fine lets say it is right that would 5 artifacts equal to 100k + 800 + 8k + 3.5k +3.5k = 115800 / 5 = 23160c I still dont see the big profit i do loose.

Snipe

You calculation method is terribly terribly, terrible. I didn't mean to be serious, but how could you accept 28k per artifact as your result lol.

The value of artifact shall be calculated like
PA=chance of getting ED*the value of ED+....
ED=100k*0.2
Crystal=1.666*1000*0.2(Considering 20k per pack divided by 12000. Nobody buys loose crystal.)
Last elixir=800*0.2
Hath=4000*2*0.2

Sum up PA=20k+332.2+160+1600=22092.2

Considering that you get PABs from them, the actual gain is lower.
I sell PA@23k. I would say selling PAs is a bit more profitable.

This post has been edited by -vincento-: Jan 26 2019, 12:34

You calculation method is terribly terribly, terrible. I didn't mean to be serious, but how could you accept 28k per artifact as your result lol.

By giving it just some toughts, also i did allready come up with a new price of 23160c

Considering that you get PABs from them, the actual gain is lower.

So you see the bonus attributes as worthless? I would call them priceless, if i could buy some more i would pay more than 100k for them.