[X] My Assistant

Well, cost increase IS reasonable thing, sort of.
BUT, to keep it from REALLY screwing mages as things progresses it requires much higher mana gains from INT, WIS and tanks. Else, pure mage will be forever stuck at low-to-mid level arenas (more likely degrading to lover ones as levels go up and uses-before-no-mana-left down), running out of the mana long before the final round on more lengthy ones. And, then mage is out of juice, he is dead.

As things are, HV is biased, giving melees much easier life than mages.

This post has been edited by hen_Z: Oct 20 2009, 10:45

Well, cost increase IS reasonable thing, sort of.
BUT, to keep it from REALLY screwing mages as things progresses it requires much higher mana gains from INT, WIS and tanks. Else, pure mage will be forever stuck at low-to-mid level arenas (more likely degrading to lover ones as levels go up and uses-before-no-mana-left down), running out of the mana long before the final round on more lengthy ones. And, then mage is out of juice, he is dead.

Pure mage, huh. You can't really expect to cast Meteor every turn until the cows come home no matter how pure you are, for that the spells are far too powerful. Besides, if you don't use a staff and you have some pieces of heavy armor, you're really not a "pure mage".

But the number of casts isn't supposed to *decrease* for each level, so if it does I'll have to look into it.

As things are, HV is biased, giving melees much easier life than mages.

If you burn all your mana in five turns then trip and fall over dead, maybe.

Well of course ya cant cast meteor every turn, but something like fireball, a single target low spell, you should be able to cast much more often. Not every turn, but every other or maybe 2/3. Right now a pure mage (cloth and staff) has a hard time keeping up with a melee character. And even while you shouldnt be able to cast every turn, you spend far, far more time in stick melee than casting. Lets assume I get 10 mana from triggering ether theft. To cover the cost of pretty much any spell, I have to trigger it twice or more, which on average is going to take 10+ melee attacks.

Here's a possibility. Put a melee damage reduction on staffs (-50-95%), but increase ether theft chance to 100%. Or scrap coalesced mana and make ether theft the basic staff ability and 100% chance and make proficiency effect the % mana stolen (start lower than the current percent). Replace the ether theft proc on staffs with an offensive proc, maybe increase damage from all elements by 50-100% on target (a sort of magic equivalent of pen armor effecting magic only and with different mechanics). You might also consider doubling the effect of int and wis on base mana pool so a character heavily invested in "mage" attributes might actualy be able to cast more, although that's not really a full fix.

Because arenas and legendary battles last so long, a mage needs a reasonably reliable way to naturally regenerate mana. Also, this removes the "stickadin" trick for grinding where you can go huge numbers of rounds on no items as a melee character just be using a staff to regen mana that you use only for healing. A major hit to staff damage would make this take far to long to be viable even with greatly increased mana regen, but be a great help to real mages.

A certain mix of proficiency and INT/WIS to reduce mana required for spells to a cap of 25% reduced cost? I've been so far removed from HV that I don't even remember if this already exists.

Well, there's already a reduction through pumping more ability points into them. But I'm looking a bit at that whole mage dynamic for the next patch.

Word.

I started out as mage, and early on, it kind of worked (I did far better as Heavy Armor), but nothing lasted for many rounds back then either. I could really see the arenas becoming huge problems on the higher levels as things currently work, Ether Theft seems like nothing short of a requirement to even have a slim chance of doing any Arena/Grind longer than a couple of rounds.

I'm not sure what the most appropriate way to fix things is, but what marcho proposed sounds good. It'd mean that you don't go staff unless you intend to actually use spells, and if you do, you'd always have *some* sort of secure mana income.

But I'm looking a bit at that whole mage dynamic for the next patch.

Thanks much!

But the number of casts isn't supposed to *decrease* for each level, so if it does I'll have to look into it.

It does decrease.

I'm level 10 and have 10 INT and 10 WIS...I can cast that spell 30 times.
Now I go to level 50 and increase my INT and WIS to 50 each...I can now cast that spell 22 times.
I need to commit to leveling INT and WIS twice per level to break even, which basically amounts to ignoring every other stat.

It might be a good idea to change the ether theft mana steal amount from being based on the monster to being based on the character stats, that way it should work better for a mage then some melee that hasn't put anything into int/wis.

It might be a good idea to change the ether theft mana steal amount from being based on the monster to being based on the character stats, that way it should work better for a mage then some melee that hasn't put anything into int/wis.

I have to argue that I doubt we'll see much difference. I think people forget how much they gain from mp tanks, which don't factor into ANY mp based effects; restoratives, 2nd winds, spell cost, etc.

I have my mp tanks maxed out, and that currently gives me a 99% bonus to mp. Also, I'm a melee type, but my WIS is only 5 below my level, so what would my amount be with your new ether theft rules?

I suppose that is true but you would think at our level a mage would have wis/int 10ish levels above their level, which depending on the formula might only equate to 1 more mana per tick on ether theft then you at 5 below, but that extra mana does add up. I'm just proposing that ether theft be more beneficial to caster stat balances, and even people that keep stats balanced compared to someone thats pure melee that might only use a staff for grindfest.

Not really a suggestion, just something I noticed from playing...

Same setup/gear, when I was at Lv33 I could cake grind into round 30 without items.
2 levels later at Lv35 now, I'm getting owned big time around round 20. Even the regular encounter (on normal) is starting to give me a bit of a hard time now.

It's probably just me, but perhaps the increase in difficulty as one levels is a bit on the steep side? Or maybe that's just because I haven't splashed out enough to replace my suit, I dunno.

Anyway just my 2 cents. Thanks for reading.

Did you remember to increase your stats?

It does decrease.

It doesn't, actually. The only reason you see a "decrease" is the 10 MP you start with. If you discount that, a spell with 50 base cost will always take half your MP, even if you never put a single point in INT/WIS. You do need to keep INT/WIS at the same point relative to your level to maintain any *additional* casts - a 50 base cost spell would take 25% of the full bar provided you keep INT and WIS equal to your level. This is all working as intended.

Well, cost increase IS reasonable thing, sort of.
BUT, to keep it from REALLY screwing mages as things progresses it requires much higher mana gains from INT, WIS and tanks. Else, pure mage will be forever stuck at low-to-mid level arenas (more likely degrading to lover ones as levels go up and uses-before-no-mana-left down), running out of the mana long before the final round on more lengthy ones. And, then mage is out of juice, he is dead.

As things are, HV is biased, giving melees much easier life than mages.

As what I am reading through HentaiVerse forums most of legendaries was and probably could only be defeated by melle.
And yes in arena if second wind do not kick in or I have miracle of every spell hit I run out of mana at 4th round (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

...
Here's a possibility. Put a melee damage reduction on staffs (-50-95%), but increase ether theft chance to 100%. Or scrap coalesced mana and make ether theft the basic staff ability and 100% chance and make proficiency effect the % mana stolen (start lower than the current percent). Replace the ether theft proc on staffs with an offensive proc, maybe increase damage from all elements by 50-100% on target (a sort of magic equivalent of pen armor effecting magic only and with different mechanics). You might also consider doubling the effect of int and wis on base mana pool so a character heavily invested in "mage" attributes might actualy be able to cast more, although that's not really a full fix.

Because arenas and legendary battles last so long, a mage needs a reasonably reliable way to naturally regenerate mana. Also, this removes the "stickadin" trick for grinding where you can go huge numbers of rounds on no items as a melee character just be using a staff to regen mana that you use only for healing. A major hit to staff damage would make this take far to long to be viable even with greatly increased mana regen, but be a great help to real mages.

Now this sounds really good, but how that should work without overpowering mages I do not know.
If it works too well we should expect to melee chars to start complaining that spellcasters are too powerful.
But as spellcaster I like that idea (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) [Btw this is one of games where spellcasters actually become weaker on high lvl instead of being most powerful glass cannons (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)]

I started out as mage, and early on, it kind of worked (I did far better as Heavy Armor), but nothing lasted for many rounds back then either. I could really see the arenas becoming huge problems on the higher levels as things currently work, Ether Theft seems like nothing short of a requirement to even have a slim chance of doing any Arena/Grind longer than a couple of rounds.

I was forced actually to wear light and heavy armour to survive long enough to kill monsters without constantly healing myself
Without staff I would now has so high dmg reduction that I will not kill a thing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ahh and one think
Could be number of hot bars twiced (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by pbVeteran: Oct 21 2009, 11:07

As what I am reading through HentaiVerse forums most of legendaries was and probably could only be defeated by melle.
And yes in arena if second wind do not kick in or I have miracle of every spell hit I run out of mana at 4th round (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Now this sounds really good, but how that should work without overpowering mages I do not know.
If it works too well we should expect to melee chars to start complaining that spellcasters are too powerful.
But as spellcaster I like that idea (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) [Btw this is one of games where spellcasters actually become weaker on high lvl instead of being most powerful glass cannons (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)]
I was forced actually to wear light and heavy armour to survive long enough to kill monsters without constantly healing myself
Without staff I would now has so high dmg reduction that I will not kill a thing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ahh and one think
Could be number of hot bars twiced (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well I did the higher end arenas with a staff so it is doable, the first tier legendaries aren't too bad with a staff, but i would imagine the anyone harder then konata would be a pain in the ass without an ethereal staff.

And ya another row of hot bars would be nice especially for casters.

Well yeah, I've found you can do highish arenas and bosses up through Konata (Mikuru+ seems pretty sketchy, you would need an ethereal staff with ether theft to even have a chance) I don't feel much at all like a mage. To conserve mana to get through high (boss) arenas without wasting additional items, I end up using the staff as a melee weapon 98% of the time and casting a handful of offensive spells. The end result is everything takes a lot longer and you feel like a crappy melee character with extra mana.

Extra hotcast slots would be much apprecitated, I'm already short on spells I use often.

Maybe make offensive spells have a static mana cost while curative and defensive spells continue to have dynamic mana costs?

How about an equipment enforced class system?
All cloth armor and a staff make you a mage, with mage perks; reduced spell cost, more ether theft, maybe a small mana regen after each round. Equip a sword and you're bumped back down to "generic character class".
All light with a dagger and buckler would be a thief with greater evade and perhaps a steal skill somewhere down
the line (people could stop complaining about credit nerfs).
All light plus dual wielding could be an assassin with higher crits ( or something...).
Heavy with two-hander or a heavy shield would make you a warrior and reduce physical dmg but make you weaker to magic dmg (maybe give you a coupla extra item slots; stronger = carry more). Once again, heavy with staff would turn you back into a "generic".
Class prof and class specific skills (from the trainer) all come to mind.

Also, how about a blacksmith who could re-roll equipment stats for a hefty fee? They might come out better, they might come out worse... In exchange for a trophy you could re-roll for a proc.

Last one: how about an intimidation factor based on how many/strongest legendary killed. Mobs would randomly lose a turn out of fear.

Feedback anyone?

How about an equipment enforced class system?
All cloth armor and a staff make you a mage, with mage perks; reduced spell cost, more ether theft, maybe a small mana regen after each round. Equip a sword and you're bumped back down to "generic character class".
All light with a dagger and buckler would be a thief with greater evade and perhaps a steal skill somewhere down
the line (people could stop complaining about credit nerfs).
All light plus dual wielding could be an assassin with higher crits ( or something...).
Heavy with two-hander or a heavy shield would make you a warrior and reduce physical dmg but make you weaker to magic dmg (maybe give you a coupla extra item slots; stronger = carry more). Once again, heavy with staff would turn you back into a "generic".
Class prof and class specific skills (from the trainer) all come to mind.

Equipment based class system? Awkward. Although a regular class system might be interesting. Or proficiency based skills/effects (I think these are supposedly already in the works).

Also, how about a blacksmith who could re-roll equipment stats for a hefty fee? They might come out better, they might come out worse... In exchange for a trophy you could re-roll for a proc.

Been suggested in some form or another quite a bit. I support any sort of smithy/upgrader/workbench/whatever. I also support the addition of glyphs/runes/gems/cards to add to equipment.

Last one: how about an intimidation factor based on how many/strongest legendary killed. Mobs would randomly lose a turn out of fear.

Ah, no I think not haha. But maybe a fear spell? Two options with that, either paralysis (as in KOTOR's Fear/Horor/Insanity tree) or the traditional chance to make an enemy flee (you get no exp/item/credit reward for enemies that have fled the battle).