[X] My Assistant

I. Why forge an item at all?
Forging allows to upgrade an item to grant more bonuses. At a certain point it will be utterly necessary to have more stats to play Hentaiverse nicely with the same gear without reducing your difficulty factor. But be warned, there are many forge traps out there.

Every damage stat has a logarithmic formula to determine the actual damage you do. It can be roughly abstracted by speeding up a truck against a strong wind. The more you try to get faster, the wind gets stronger by square of speed. At the beginning you can speed up without feeling that wind, because your engine is way to powerful to let you feel any difference in speeding up. If you have an open window in your truck, you hear only a whiper of the wind. Later you feel that speeding up gets slower, because the wind has reached significant strength and you can clearly hear the wind and feel it in your hair. At last you reach a speed where your engine power equals the wind power, so gaining speed is impossible. The wind will tear on you, so better close the window.

Avoidance stats follow a line of ( 1 - a ) * ( 1 - b ) * ... * ( 1 - z ) multiplications to make sure you can not reach 0 (100% avoidance). But the Hentaiverse system checks stats one after another. All of these stats are linear, which means you get always the same gain for 1 PAB invested. (yeah, the gains are poor, but they sum up nicely).

Migitation stats are a real pain. you have a capping linear part (STR+2*END or WIS+2*END) and a multiplication part called armor bonus (1-head)*(1-chest)*...*(1-feet). If you like math, have your time there.

Let us begin. Did I mention that we will be looking at items level 0? If you want a result if forging on your level is cool, just add the proper level scaling to your items. The formula is

(1 + (level / scaling_factor)) * (round(base_roll * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier) * (1+ forge_factor)+ item_quality) * base_stat_multiplier)

Lost at the train station? Ok, lets kick the maths off the desk as far as possible. Let us just state:
Try to get gear with good base_rolls that suit you best. Make a weighting like END > ATTDMG > STR > DEX > ...
Try to get gear with at least exquisite quality before you forge. Exquisite repair costs have to be payed, too!
If you are not confident with an item you wear, do not forge it. (Exept to get forge XP)
Do not forge if the forging costs exeed the purchase costs of a better item!!!

II. DPS forging (a.k.a. The more you forge, the less you get.)
While being in the forge upgrade screen and looking on that magical "grants +1% of"? Do not trust it. It is a damn lie. It is just a convenient place holder so you do not see an actual calculated forge_factor.
There are -2- different "trees" in the forge system. The one for DPS -called ADB/MDB- and the other for non DPS stats. Both use a logarithmic function, thus differing in how often you can forge and what forge_factor you get.Let us take a look on DPS (mag/phys dmg bonus)


a ) DPS forging on weapons (a.k.a Hail to the king, baby!)
The first time you forge DPS you get a gaint push of 2.66% (forge_factor about 1.0266). Far more than the promised 1%. You keep forging and hammer in bindings as if there is no tomorrow. The step from forge 99 to 100 was painful in costs and grinding, but have you doubled your DPS stat on the item now? I mean it promised 1% per forge so the bonus is +100%? Nope, you have a +66.87% or in forge_factor the +100% equals 2, but you have 1.6687. Face it. If you feel like going for a walk or a rising urge to do some "Bowling for Columbine", be my guest.
There are some sweet spots, so you can say it has about +10*x%, for convenience we set quality_modifier = 1 something like superior or so.
+10.00% forge_factor at 5,
+20.00% forge_factor at 11
+30.00% forge_factor at 20
+40.00% forge_factor at 32
+49.99% forge_factor at 50
+60.00% forge_factor at 76
+66.87% forge_factor at 100 (max)

And now comes the point why people play high stacks poker on auctions with god-like legendary+ items. The quality_modifier joins in, too. It is defined by the prefix you see like crude, average, exquisite.. you got it?
Ok, quality_modifier is 1.05 for exq, 1.1 for mag, 1.2 for leg, and 1.25 for peerless
EXQ max_forge = 1.7521
MAG max_forge = 1.8356
LEG max_forge = 2.0025
PRL max_forge = 2.0859

Forging EXQ to unforged MAG needs at least -2- forges
Forging EXQ to unforged LEG needs at least -7- forges
Forging EXQ to unforged PRL needs at least -10- forges
Forging MAG to unforged LEG needs at least -4- forges
Forging MAG to unforged PRL needs at least -8- forges
Forging LEG to unforged PRL needs at least -3- forges

Since the first five steps of forging cost no bindings (but mats) always consider forging these steps!


b ) DPS forging on armor (a.k.a. high costs for rare stuff)
Oh, you forge armor for DPS? Mind the slot_modifier in the level_scaling(!): Chest = 1.2, legs = 1.1, helmet = 1, hand = 0.9, feet = 0.8.
As above we start with quality_modifier = 1, something like superior.
So forging boots to 100 results in 0.8 * 1.6687 = 1.3345 or +33.45%
A chest forged to 100 results in 1.2 * 1.6687 = 2.002 or +100.2% (hey, there are the promised 1%, but only on -1- slot!!!)

Let us compare fully forged Power Boots of Slaughter with level scaling, assuming a max_roll, base_multiplier is 0.854 and set item_quality to 1 (it is a just a factor pointing out something in the item creation anyway)
ADB EXQ Boots go for (round (18 * 1.05) * 0,8 * 1.6687 + 1) * 0.854 = (19 * 0.8 * 1.6687 +1) * 0.854 = 22.515 at level 0
ADB MAG Boots go for( round(18 * 1.1) * 0.8 * 1.6687 + 1) * 0.854 = (20 * ... = 23.6549 at level 0
ADB LEG Boots go for 25.9352 at level 0
ADB PRL Boots go for 27.07528 at level 0
Scaling to level 500 means multiplying with 1 + 500 * 3 / 50 = 31
EXQ 22.5150 * 31 = 697.9650 ADB
MAG 23.6549 * 31 = 733.3033 ADB
LEG 25.9352 * 31 = 803.9916 ADB
PRL 27.07528 * 31 = 839.3338 ADB
EXQ : MAG : LEG : PRL about 1 : 1.051 : 1.152 : 1.203
That is what you expected, eh? It is quite obvious that better gear brings better stats, but as far as ADB and boots are compared, the difference is not that cool.

So let us go for the Power BodyArmor of Slaughter, like the one above max_roll etc:
ADB EXQ = (round(28 * 1.05) * 1.2 * 1.6687 + 1) * 0.853 = 50.4464 at level 0
ADB MAG = (round(28 * 1.1) * 1.2 * 1.6687 + 1) * 0.853 = 53.8666 at level 0
ADB LEG = ... = 58.9968 at level 0
ADB PRL = ... = 60.7069 at level 0
Scaling to 500:
ADB EXQ = 1563.8393
ABD MAG = 1669.8645
ADB LEG = 1828.9023
ADB PRL = 1881.9148
EXQ : MAG : LEG : PRL about 1 : 1.068 : 1.169 : 1.203
This you expected, too. The ratio is by far better than forging boots. The differences in the ratio refers to the round function and size of max_roll. These are damn fine ADBs.
Forge higher valued slots first. Chest > Legs > Head > Hands > Boots

c) Calculation of different items to utilize stat weighting

If you plan to compare items, you have two ways: calculate everything by hand or use a formula which can compare the same slot and assumes the same forge level. It is like:
x_ADB = y_ADB * round(x_roll * x_quality_modifier) / round(y_roll * y_quality_modifier) - round(x_roll * x_quality_modifier) / round(y_roll * y_quality_modifier) + 1
Works on all stats, because level0 has no base_multiplier exept 1 = 1+ 0 / base_multiplier, so it is allowed to write:
x_Stat = y_Stat * round(x_roll * x_quality_modifier) / round(y_roll * y_quality_modifier) - round(x_roll * x_quality_modifier) / round(y_roll * y_quality_modifier) + 1

So to check what if this item would be higher in quality_modifier set x_roll = y_roll and insert the quality_modifier you want to check.
For example our maxed Power Boots of Slaughter. We know their ADB stats in EXQ, but would like to know what stat they have in MAG:
x_ADB = 26.36 * round(18 * 1.1) / round(18 * 1.05) - round(18 * 1.1) / round(18 * 1.05) + 1
x_ADB = 26.36 * 20 / 19 - 20 / 19 + 1 = 27.47 - 1.053 + 1 = 27.699 (qed)


d ) DPS forging conclusion (a.k.a. my 2 cents)
Do not forge SUP and lower. Wearing such gear indicates the forging costs are yet too high considered the gains. Get gear.
Do not forge if you consider your gear as "bad". Get better stuff. EXQ is sufficient but consider upgrading (do not forge too much!)
Always forge when it costs no bindings (or rares), stop when reaching next quality (e.g. unforged LEG)


e ) DPS forging Q & A (a.k.a I may know shit and tell you something)
Please note I am a light-armored Macer ever since. Some comments are just for laughs and not ment to be offensive.

1)The cotton and phase ladies and gents
Q: Why are so many of my colleagues utilizing non-ethereal but holy/dark/elemental prefixed staves?
A: Because they have so much Agi pumped on their gear they can avoid 40%+ even with burden. The best mage defence is a strong offence, so they try to push their chosen DPS dark/holy/elemental to max.
Colman's A: It is because they want to kill faster with the bonus EDB from the matching elemental prefix. The burden of staff is low so they can use feather shard when needed.

Q: EDB prefixes and MDB suffixes can be forged, too?
A: It is just a roll added to the already existing base_roll. So they should be forgeable, too.

2) The Leather and Shady Friends Bar & Grill
Q: Is dual wielding stronger than a full forged 2h?
A: Do the maths yourself. Use the HV wiki and a calculator. Ask the experts.
Colman's A: It really depended on situation. If you are playing on hell and if you can kill everything within a few hit, 2H is faster than DW. 2H is still shit in this patch anyway.


3) The hard-to-knock-down-and-up heavy section
Q: Why are so many plate users going for power of slaughter?
A: Erm... It has higher max_roll on ADB, plus some crit if savage... maxes DPS... dunno?
Colman's A: It's also because plate only provide PMI but no protection against magic. As monster in PFU cast magic frequently, you need to either kill faster or have high resist/MMI in order to reduce the SP consuption. Another reason is that the current force shield is OP. The block rate can easily exceed 50%. With 3 counter/stun per turn, defense do not really matter at all.

Q: Are there some transmog sets for plate / power?
A: Yeah, these are Amber, Ruby, Cobalt....


Later on Hentaiverse Forums (at least I plan to do):
III Avoidance Forging
IV PAB Forging

April 27 edit: corrected base_scaling factor - Doc is now beta stadium. If you find errors pls correct me
April 28 edit: inserted Colman's answers to Q&A. Thanks for clearing out things! Fixed a typo..

This post has been edited by Frederiksc: Apr 28 2015, 14:07

Q: For me as woman only the dark magicks were attractive to me. Now after forging my legendary robe to level 69 the opacity is also at 69%. Is that intended?
A: Oh... Maybe you can post a selfie here? I am sure some would like to see a level 69 forged legendary robe.

Q: Can you tell me if my play style is ok for -?
A: Stop! Go to the ask the experts threat and post there. They can tell you if you are the steak or the minced meat. Beef up there, buddy.

Q: Did you figure this all out yourself?
A: NEXT!

Q:Come on, you are just one stupid macer...!
0 0 Battle start!
1 1 You crit Idiot9000 for 12884 void damage.
1 2 Fire strike crits Idiot9000 for 4331 fire damage
1 3 Void strike crits Idiot9000 for 6002 void damage.
1 4 Idiot9000 has been defeated!
A: -

Q: If I want some ADB on my leather jacket of Hentaiverse M.C., what should I do?
A: Ask Tenboro to change the fabric to shade. Just grant him a full member jacket and a bike of his choice. Yeah, add some chicks, too. Bikini or less is fine.

Q: SLUGHTR! PWR OF SLAUHGTER!! IN YOUR FACE!!! KILL!!1! POWAR! SLUAGHTR!!
A: Add some ventilation to your helmet, especially on hot summer days. Raise INT to -2- so can release shift on your keyboard.

I just wanted to note that those last parts are quite inane, I can't make much out of them.

Thanks, DoctorDove, to make this a more scientific topic. Edited the post and deleted the inane sections.

This post has been edited by Frederiksc: Apr 26 2015, 20:24

Good thread. needed. So my confusion is on this:

I have a dark mage and elec mage sets. I've upgraded my MDB to 57/75 for my Mag Katalox Staff of Slaughter and worse I have three elec staffs that have been upgraded (will fix links..)

Mag shocking Redwood staff of slaughter- 45/75
Mag Shocking Redwood staff of slaufgter 2 (better one got later)- 41/75
Mag Shocking Redwoof staff of Mjolnir (20/75)


Obviously, it seems like I've wasted my time upgraded the Mjolnir's MDB as it's a waste of time completely.

Does forge level have any affect on the +-1% nonsense

Good thread. needed. So my confusion is on this:

I have a dark mage and elec mage sets. I've upgraded my MDB to 57/75 for my Mag Katalox Staff of Slaughter and worse I have three elec staffs that have been upgraded (will fix links..)

Mag shocking Redwood staff of slaughter- 45/75
Mag Shocking Redwood staff of slaufgter 2 (better one got later)- 41/75
Mag Shocking Redwoof staff of Mjolnir (20/75)
Obviously, it seems like I've wasted my time upgraded the Mjolnir's MDB as it's a waste of time completely.

Does forge level have any affect on the +-1% nonsense

imo, given the way forging & magic score works, destruction staff with good MDB is much better than a EDB staff with good EDB. also, matching staff is better than ethereal/non-matching staff.

anyway, good post!

I have some different opinion in the Q & A.

1)The cotton and phase ladies and gents
Q: Why are so many of my colleagues utilizing non-ethereal but holy/dark/elemental prefixed staves?
A: Because they have so much Agi pumped on their gear they can avoid 40%+ even with burden. The best mage defence is a strong offence, so they try to push their chosen DPS dark/holy/elemental to max.

It is because they want to kill faster with the bonus EDB from the matching elemental prefix. The burden of staff is low so they can use feather shard when needed.

2) The Leather and Shady Friends Bar & Grill
Q: Is dual wielding stroger than a full forged 2h?
A: Do the maths yourself. Use the HV wiki and a calculator. Ask the experts.

Typo (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
It really depended on situation. If you are playing on hell and if you can kill everything within a few hit, 2H is faster than DW. 2H is still shit in this patch anyway.

3) The hard-to-knock-down-and-up heavy section
Q: Why are so many plate users going for power of slaughter?
A: Erm... It has higher max_roll on ADB, plus some crit if savage... maxes DPS... dunno?

It also because plate only provide PMI but no protection against magic. As monster in PFU cast magic frequently, you need to either kill faster or have high resist/MMI in order to reduce the SP consuption. Another reason is that the current force shield is OP. The block rate can easily exceed 50%. With 3 counter/stun per turn, defense do not really matter at all.

Avoidance stats follow a line of ( 1 - a ) * ( 1 - b ) * ... * ( 1 - z ) multiplications to make sure you can not reach 0 (100% avoidance). But the Hentaiverse system checks stats one after another. All of these stats are linear, which means you get always the same gain for 1 PAB invested. (yeah, the gains are poor, but they sum up nicely).

Migitation stats are a real pain. you have a capping linear part (STR+2*END or WIS+2*END) and a multiplication part called armor bonus (1-head)*(1-chest)*...*(1-feet). If you like math, have your time there.

Actually no, the pab is only linear if you are in an absolute scale. You will gain more, or gain less for every pab. Say you have 800 agi that is 0.68 chance of getting hit, now you have 825 agi, 0.67/0.68 is 1.47% harder to hit. If you are at 1000 agi, 1% base evd is 1.67% harder to hit. So every point of agi is worth more than the previous. The same for dex and wis for parry and resist.

Phy mit is the inverse, for every point you gain less. 300 END gives you 0.75, it is 25% less dmg, 600 END gives you 0.6 which is 20% less than 300. Another 300 END is 0.5 and is only 16.7% less dmg taken.

DPS: yet another proof that users are too much faster to expand their vocabulary than whoever maintaining the Acronyms wiki page.

1) DPS is an extremely common gaming term.
2) It doesn't apply to HV since it's turn-based and the time you take in your actions isn't relevant.

Actually no, the pab is only linear if you are in an absolute scale. You will gain more, or gain less for every pab. Say you have 800 agi that is 0.68 chance of getting hit, now you have 825 agi, 0.67/0.68 is 1.47% harder to hit. If you are at 1000 agi, 1% base evd is 1.67% harder to hit. So every point of agi is worth more than the previous. The same for dex and wis for parry and resist.

Phy mit is the inverse, for every point you gain less. 300 END gives you 0.75, it is 25% less dmg, 600 END gives you 0.6 which is 20% less than 300. Another 300 END is 0.5 and is only 16.7% less dmg taken.

Combined with the increased attack speed and slightly increased in PMI, AGI is rather useful at high level. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

However, END also increase HP (linearly (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) and both PMI/MMI. I still think END is more useful than AGI on all level range.

This post has been edited by Colman: Apr 30 2015, 04:26

Thx for this topic, It really help me in forging issue.

Combined with the increased attack speed and slightly increased in PMI, AGI is rather useful at high level. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

However, END also increase HP (linearly (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) and both PMI/MMI. I still think END is more useful than AGI on all level range.

Well you can't spec into different pab like in other RPGs. Everyone just add their points evenly for the max gain (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
You can decrease int a bit if you are playing melee but it doesn't matter very soon, it will just cost nothing compared to other points.

Well you can't spec into different pab like in other RPGs. Everyone just add their points evenly for the max gain (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
You can decrease int a bit if you are playing melee but it doesn't matter very soon, it will just cost nothing compared to other points.

That's true for character stat.
However, it is different for equipment selection. Especially for people who need to use equipment with missing PABs.

Excellent thread. Answered a few questions I had. Thanks for the hard work (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Actually no, the pab is only linear if you are in an absolute scale. You will gain more, or gain less for every pab. Say you have 800 agi that is 0.68 chance of getting hit, now you have 825 agi, 0.67/0.68 is 1.47% harder to hit. If you are at 1000 agi, 1% base evd is 1.67% harder to hit. So every point of agi is worth more than the previous. The same for dex and wis for parry and resist.

Phy mit is the inverse, for every point you gain less. 300 END gives you 0.75, it is 25% less dmg, 600 END gives you 0.6 which is 20% less than 300. Another 300 END is 0.5 and is only 16.7% less dmg taken.

Ok. lets start with your agi example. I stated every PAB point invested grats a linear result. Assuming no burden, 800 agi grant +32% evade from PABs. 825 agi grant +33% from PABs. Seems linear to me. You described a "harder to hit" raise of 1.47%, but this the ratio ( 1- evade_new) to (1 - evade_old) , not the difference: evade_new - evade_old = 1%

Now to END
PMI = 1 - (1 - equipment_bonus) * (900/(900 + END + (AGI/2)))
Since we are looking on PABs the equipment_bonus is constant, so we can say equipment_bonus = c. Inserting this results in:
PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * (900/(900 + END + (AGI/2)))
Players are advised to distribute their points evenly results in agi = end. Inserting this we get
PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * (900/(900 + END + (END/2)))
PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * (900/(900 + 1.5 * END)

@ 300 END
PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * (900/(900 + 450)); PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * 2/3;
PMI = 1 - 2/3 + 2/3 * c; PMI = 1/3 + 2/3 * c
@ 600 END
PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * (900/(900 + 900); PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * 1/2
PMI = 1 - 1/2 + 1/2 * c; PMI = 1/2 + 1/2 * c
@ 900 END
PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * (900/(900 + 1350); PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * 2/5
PMI = 1 - 3/5 + 2/5 * c; PMI = 3/5 + 2/5 * c
@ 1200 END
PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * (900/(900 + 1800); PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * 1/4
PMI = 1 - 1/4 + 1/4 * c; PMI = 3/4 + 1/4 * c
Mitigation gains from Primary Attributes are capped at 80%. so max END allowed is
1 - 4/5 = 900/(900 + 1.5 * x)
1/5 = 900/(900 + 1.5 * x); *5
1 = 4500/(900 + 1.5 * x); *(900 + 1.5 * x)
900 + 1.5 * x = 4500; -900
1.5 * x = 3600; *2/3
x = 2400; This equals 2400 END and 2400 AGI!!!

@2400 END
PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * (900/(900 + 3600); PMI = 1 - (1 - c) * 1/5
PMI = 1 - 1/5 + 1/5 * c; PMI = 4/5 + 1/5 * c
Observing the results you can see, that raising END has an impact on lowering your PMI on items.
Ok, Void Domain. You got me on that point. Chapeau!. Never looked on the PMI formula. My bad.
END to PMI is a steady raising 1/x function and not a x = ay + b linear function. But was I talking about evade and PMI forging yet?

This post has been edited by Frederiksc: Apr 30 2015, 18:36

@Frederiksc
I think you understand what I am saying, just the wording we use are different.

for AGI you "gain" the same 1% per 25 point, but the result or effect is getting better and better.

So is the same for END, END has an impact on lowering your PMI on items, but it will not increase your damage taken (if your equipment_bonus cuts half the damage, it will always cuts half the damage no matter you are 0 END or 3600 END)

I would like to share some information regarding forge upgrade costs. I know this is slightly off-topic but I couldn't find this information neither in the forums nor in the wiki.

Upgrading Block Chance on Legendary Mithril Kite Shield of Dampening:

CODE

Levels 01-05:  Robust Catalyst x1, Mid-Grade Wood x6
Levels 06-08:  Robust Catalyst x1, Mid-Grade Wood x5, High-Grade Wood x1, Binding of the Barrier x1
Levels 09-12:  Robust Catalyst x1, Mid-Grade Wood x4, High-Grade Wood x2, Binding of the Barrier x1
Level     13:  Robust Catalyst x1, Mid-Grade Wood x3, High-Grade Wood x3, Binding of the Barrier x1
Levels 14-16: Vibrant Catalyst x1, Mid-Grade Wood x3, High-Grade Wood x3, Binding of the Barrier x1
Levels 17-20: Vibrant Catalyst x1, Mid-Grade Wood x2, High-Grade Wood x4, Binding of the Barrier x1
Levels 21-??: Vibrant Catalyst x1, Mid-Grade Wood x1, High-Grade Wood x5, Binding of the Barrier x1

Upgrading Attack Damage on Legendary Ruby Power Armor of Slaughter:

CODE

Levels    01-05:  Robust Catalyst x1, Repurposed Actuator x1, Mid-Grade Metals x6
Levels 06,07-??:  Robust Catalyst x1, Repurposed Actuator x1, Mid-Grade Metals x5, High-Grade Metals x1, Binding of Slaughter x1

Is anyone willing to share the forge upgrade cost data for levels 21-50 for Legendaries and/or data for upgrading Sup/Exq/Mag equipment?

Is anyone willing to share the forge upgrade cost data for levels 21-50 for Legendaries and/or data for upgrading Sup/Exq/Mag equipment?

These are the costs for a Legendary equip from lv5-26:

source

Q: For me as woman only the dark magicks were attractive to me. Now after forging my legendary robe to level 69 the opacity is also at 69%. Is that intended?
A: Oh... Maybe you can post a selfie here? I am sure some would like to see a level 69 forged legendary robe.

i'd really like to see a dark female mage in robe & boots.

however, nowadays you can calculate scaled stat in a quicker way, without even knowing scaling factors.

since we know that scaling is linear, all we need is two points: one is lv0 and the other one is the level at which that gear is bounded (or your current level if soul-bounded/unassigned).

at this point the scaling process will assume the following form (linear interpolation)

CODE

scaled_stat = ( stat_lvbound - base_stat ) * ( final_level ) / ( bound_level ) + base_stat

easier to do it than to say it. it can also be implehemented in a spreadsheet, with the only required datas being base stat, stat at a certain level, your level. works for every stat (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Forging is not easy. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)