[X] My Assistant

If a uniform set of separate categories, like I suggested (and which chaos-x deemed to complex), would a set of tagging systems for each gallery type work better? For instance, image sets, which are already usually built around a particular theme, whether it be an artist, fetish, or what have you, might have fewer tagging options than another type of gallery.

Your idea, you advocate it and you give the reasons why it's advantages would out weight the disadvantages.

And another thing which I couldn't properly articulate before is that a single page in a small gallery has more weight, more worth to it, in my eyes than in a larger gallery. Its percentage of the overall gallery is certainly higher. I'd like to be able to see this more reflected in the tags.

That's pretty much how the presence rule works. If a character appears on 6 pages of a gallery with 10 pages he gets a tag, if he appears on 6 pages of a gallery with 300 page he don't get a tag.

Just so you know, i cant find shit on Fakku even if i use their new Tags (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
I can find what i want on g.e-hentai.org just by tags.

This. So much this. A tagging and search system so complexly simple a retard could find what anything he's looking for.

Of all the sites I've been to this place has to have the most organized gallery and tagging system by far. Minus prohibited works of course like western paysite works and artists personal website exclusives.

Had I known of Fakku's role in the recent purges when I first posted, I would not have cited them as a positive example of anything. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) And since Wani produces about 90% of my favorite artists, I may not be spending enough time here in the future to warrant further argument on my part.

I think I'll wait until the current situation settles before deciding if it's worth the effort.

Had I known of Fakku's role in the recent purges when I first posted, I would not have cited them as a positive example of anything. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) And since Wani produces about 90% of my favorite artists, I may not be spending enough time here in the future to warrant further argument on my part.

I think I'll wait until the current situation settles before deciding if it's worth the effort.

Oh don't you worry, things went full retard here with the latest update.

That's pretty much how the presence rule works. If a character appears on 6 pages of a gallery with 10 pages he gets a tag, if he appears on 6 pages of a gallery with 300 page he don't get a tag.

A question: If a gallery is composed of multiple chapters, is this meant to be applied per-chapter or per-gallery? e.g. if you have a character is 6 pages of a chapter of 24 pages in a gallery of 300 pages, do they get tagged or not?

I would prefer they get tagged, because this tends to end up frustrating me on occasion, but I've never seen much consistency about this in practice...

A question: If a gallery is composed of multiple chapters, is this meant to be applied per-chapter or per-gallery? e.g. if you have a character is 6 pages of a chapter of 24 pages in a gallery of 300 pages, do they get tagged or not?

Yep, anthologies and tankoubons (and other chapter divided galleries) are tagged by chapter. If there's one chapter that fulfils the presence rule it gets tagged. But it must be a chapter, not a 2-3 pages pinup by an artist.

This post has been edited by blue penguin: Jul 31 2014, 00:44

memnarch crawl back under your rock and ... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

memnarch crawl back under your rock and ... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Yeah, someone made that "joke" already.

I was thinking last night that perhaps a function to enable the viewing of downvoted tags could be a possible compromise. I'd inferred that clogging up the tagging system with "less relavent" tags was one of the reasons for this policy. Sure, you can search for downvoted tags now, but they aren't displayed on the galleries themselves.

I also thought that some kind of tag limit on less prevalent, but still present content, might work as well. Without knowing more about how large-scale changes are made on the site, I hesitate to make any suggestions regarding implementation though.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Yeah, someone made that "joke" already.

I was thinking last night that perhaps a function to enable the viewing of downvoted tags could be a possible compromise. I'd inferred that clogging up the tagging system with "less relavent" tags was one of the reasons for this policy. Sure, you can search for downvoted tags now, but they aren't displayed on the galleries themselves.

I also thought that some kind of tag limit on less prevalent, but still present content, might work as well. Without knowing more about how large-scale changes are made on the site, I hesitate to make any suggestions regarding implementation though.

Memnarch, I actually agree with you for the most part. I sometimes find it a tad frustrating when I detect a certain hard to find fetish or sexual practice, and then find that I cannot tag it whereas stuff that's readily apparent on every page is highly tagged.

Having said that, I do understand that the system they have in place here keeps bots' and 'rogue' taggers from messing things up for everyone. It's hard to create a system that will please everyone I guess.

Memnarch,
You have an observation- and an idea on making things better.
Regardless of your opinion they could easily audit the data & see how often this happens- hell, which tags it happens to most often. Actually- maybe they have- doesn't matter does it?

They just hid comment weights- likely so people couldn't 'retaliate' to abuse. This is a 'fix'. Think about this.
Abusers are now 'protected', because 'mystery scores'. Yeah- that about 'fixes' it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

This thread has so many abusive comments, because a tiny bit of consideration is way too much effort.

Besides, 'Hentai' is about ignoring the most retarded ass details in favor of the pretty art, right?
I see the most illogical stories 300 vote 5 stared because of the art.
That's fine of course- just shows where the mindset/priorities are. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Pay attention, because you shouldn't be surprised in that respect. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

So, don't be discouraged- but don't expect change either.

I'm nowhere near an expert here- been around a while, but I rarely post, so I can't advise.
I'm just saying you're not alone in your frustration.
But what can you do, eh?

Take care.

One other thing about your "big breasts" tag example vs. a sex act/fetish tag. A character that has big breasts will usually have them throughout the entire comic, barring body mods. Anal might just be in the portion of the comic that has sex in it, or a portion of that portion. That might partially explain the higher prevalence of or agreement on appearance tags over "action" tags.

I think there should be a check list for tags that you want to see. I mean they already got the cg sets, non-h, image set and etc.. Maybe a tag button next to the search bar will lead you to a list of tags so you can search for specific tags and such.

One other thing about your "big breasts" tag example vs. a sex act/fetish tag. A character that has big breasts will usually have them throughout the entire comic, barring body mods. Anal might just be in the portion of the comic that has sex in it, or a portion of that portion. That might partially explain the higher prevalence of or agreement on appearance tags over "action" tags.

Exactly. Appearance tags, particularly ones that are obvious from the thumbnail seem to me like they should be given less priority instead of more. Also, larger galleries, i.e. game cg sets, in my experience, are ones that I'm less likely to browse through. As I've said before, more pictures tends to mean an easier chance of retaining tags. Meanwhile, the smaller galleries, i.e. manga and doujinshi, tend to lose tags because of their smaller sizes; yet they're probably browsed through more by users. Thus, the current system makes locating content in more often browsed through galleries more difficult to find. This has been my observation, at least.

Another thing: I was looking through EHWiki and noticed that tags are identified by various types, like visual or activity. Is this something that could be applied to the actual system, rather than merely their definitions?

Exactly. Appearance tags, particularly ones that are obvious from the thumbnail seem to me like they should be given less priority instead of more.

Priority doesn't matter much with subjective tags like "big breasts", where the tag will still not pass regardless of the category. It is more about validity. Even if people do use the given wiki definition (bigger than a head), this can still range from A-cup (DFC tier users seeing A-cup as big) to E-cup (cowgirl-tier users seeing D-cup as small), both sides arguing that "it is smaller than or equal to at least one head size in there". The safe approach for such tags is if they have a upper-level tag (in this case, huge breasts). If it is outright obvious that breasts are huge, then you can safely tag big breasts (but still can't tag huge breasts without taking similar risks).

Also, larger galleries, i.e. game cg sets, in my experience, are ones that I'm less likely to browse through. As I've said before, more pictures tends to mean an easier chance of retaining tags. Meanwhile, the smaller galleries, i.e. manga and doujinshi, tend to lose tags because of their smaller sizes; yet they're probably browsed through more by users.

Subjective. Bigger galleries contain more pictures and subsequently are harder to tag. A lowered probability of getting browsed is a direct consequence as you won't find it if it doesn't contain the tag (unless it has been tagged and downvoted and someone's being a masochist and/or doesn't really care about unapproved tags). As for doujinshi and one-shots, presence rule is what causes paranoia.

Thus, the current system makes locating content in more often browsed through galleries more difficult to find. This has been my observation, at least.

A valid observation and a valid point. All of this results from the current system, but not just the presence rule. It is much easier than that. It could actually be fixed in a snap, but that would require going backwards and admitting that the current system is a failure, which requires a good bunch of hinting. (We'll get there eventually.)

Another thing: I was looking through EHWiki and noticed that tags are identified by various types, like visual or activity. Is this something that could be applied to the actual system, rather than merely their definitions?

I don't quite get what you mean here. If you mean linking a specific system to a specific tag type, that would be a lot of unnecessary work for something that is not related to the tags themselves, nor even their own definition. If you meant something completely different, sorry for the misunderstanding.

This post has been edited by Mika Kurogane: Aug 29 2014, 02:03

The advantages of sex tags are more ways to browse and prune galleries and the possibility of more users and galleries - since people will find E-Hentai more and want to make more galleries about, say, anal sex.

The disadvantages are more tags and galleries for the server to handle and the possibility of taggers going overboard - if people can tag anal sex, than why not tags for different hair colors?

Just look at Gelbooru and you'll see what I mean by advantages and disadvantages: 503 errors, search overloads, and unapproved tags, but also a ton of hentai and a big community.

I think either the pony overlord should decide this, or we should have a meeting in the barn so everyporn can vote on this. (I don't know how deciding stuff happens on this site, sorry)

Remember that tags don't automatically get added. There are VIPs doing the selection, and it is elitist. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It is stated in the wiki that such tags would never happen, so we're safe here. I like the way you think - we need more people like you to actually comment in this section for tag suggestions, as there is a blatant lack of people backing up suggestions when they can provide constructive arguments for them, resulting in stale suggestions.

In other words, we're supposed to discuss tag suggestions, and, if enough people are on it, move on to a vote and it either gets approved or rejected. At least that's how it used to work. It currently limits tag input a bit too much, but you can still help with existing suggestions if you can provide examples that help. (Especially examples that cannot be countered with existing tags or extended tag searches.)

Uhm so what's your suggestion to fixing this problem?

I think this problem is more related to people paying more attention to visual than content, rather than an inherent system's flaw.

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Aug 29 2014, 08:51

We should measure breasts by pixel size before tagging them small/big/huge breasts, if the artist makes them bigger all of a sudden we can have 2 or 3 tags!

Whatever the reasons, I don't trust the tagging system either. I've found that if a tag is applied, yes, you can bet it's in the gallery. But anything goes for tags that could or should be applied but aren't. If I want to search for great scenes of something like "facesitting", I just do it manually. The rules seem to prevent the tag from being allowed far too often, and worthwhile scenes disappear into the cracks. A perfect example of this is Buruman. Fantastic long facesitting scene, but the tag was vetoed.

This post has been edited by tehyar: Oct 11 2014, 23:52