[X] My Assistant

Why does your Celestial always win so often but can't get killing blows? And why does Mechanoid get so many killing blows?

My Celestial wins fairly often as well but also gets a lot of killing blows.

On this subject, I agree with everything that was said by lestion. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

Regarding stats, just to clarify, my monsters 1, 2 and 3 have the same stats (Primaries 17, Resistance 37, Scavenging 20, and everything else 17). After they are full chaosed, I plan to raise the PL a little bit each month. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

I'm not sure but I think both sprites and giants are good monster species, so a comparison would be more telling between maybe say a celestial and an avion.

Not appearing often should not change which monsters (if any) are better. It will just lower the samples, but in the extreme long run someone, or an aggregate of players, would eventually gain enough samples.

I'm not sure being level 2250 necessarily qualifies monster comparisons any better than being level 400, as long as monsters are same PL and chaos perhaps.

Win rates should come down to how many battles they appear in (which should be the same across all monster species, averaged in the extreme long run) together with how often monsters of that type effectively contribute towards a win. It's likely the case that monsters are all so weak that the latter criteria is just about irrelevant.

Kill rates (win-to-kill ratio) would not matter on how many battles a monster appears in in the extreme long run.

I just realized that how often a monster appears may not be the same among all species, because of the game trying to balance out monster species and PL in the selection rules. So that could mess with the apparent win rate. Nevermind, I forgot the game does allow monster species to appear more often when players make more of them.

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Mar 2 2020, 09:05

I'm not sure but I think both sprites and giants are supposed to be good monster species, so a comparison would be more telling between maybe say a celestial and an avion.

Sprites are generally considered on the low end because of their abysmal HP pool - they do have quite strong attacks (especially on their base attack, with very high crit) but attack strength is not a particularly good measure of how dangerous a monster is mostly because spirit shield exists, and spark of life exists - HV is a gauntlet-style survival system. Giants tend to be more 'dangerous' because they take more hits to kill, giving them more opportunities to strike. This applies mostly to mages. Against 1H players, damage typing & strength becomes important, and celestials excel here because their SP attack is magic void damage, and as luck would have it, it's also the hardest hitting SP attack of any monster.

This sort of model is also why kills-to-wins is not a particularly good measure of how strong a monster type is - against most of the playerbase (excluding max-forged, high level 1H prot/warding players), spirit shield is the great normalizer that essentially means your 2250 giant and a 1530 celestial and everything in between hit for pretty much the same amount in dangerous content where most deaths are happening (ie, high rounds in fests) - which is often to say, they either don't hit at all, or they hit you for spirit shield damage (as a mage). Anything that is strong enough to hit for 20%+ of a player's HP is equal, with the main differences then being in chaos upgrades (particularly attack speed).

At P2250 and full chaos, the differences can start to become slightly more apparent, but even those are not likely especially considerable. And it has even less effect on gift rate - which I can attest is absolutely not 1 gift per win, but rather a chance at a gift, with its weight increasing by the number of wins and time since the last gift was received.

allow me to remember you that the strongest monster has been a sprite, for a while. stony's, iirc

allow me to remember you that the strongest monster has been a sprite, for a while. stony's, iirc

* Reminds Scremaz for the 127th time
The word is "remind", dude. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

* Reminds Scremaz for the 127th time
The word is "remind", dude. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Great idea for a monster name: in remembrance of remindinding

Kidding, of course.

* Reminds Scremaz for the 127th time
The word is "remind", dude. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

ok, so:

i remember (by myself)

you remember (by yourdelf)

i remind you

you remind me


right?

I like being remembered of stuff, it sounds cool. Kind of like when americans say "I'll learn 'em" or something, except not as hillbillish.

Sprites are generally considered on the low end...attack strength is not a particularly good measure of how dangerous a monster is mostly because spirit shield exists, and spark of life exists. Giants tend to be more 'dangerous'...This applies mostly to mages. Against 1H players, damage typing & strength becomes important, and celestials excel here...

kills-to-wins is not a particularly good measure of how strong a monster type is - against most of the playerbase (excluding max-forged, high level 1H prot/warding players), spirit shield is the great normalizer that essentially means your 2250 giant and a 1530 celestial and everything in between hit for pretty much the same amount in dangerous content where most deaths are happening

Yes, I think how "good" a monster is depends greatly on the type of opponent player, in particular mage or melee. Performance results are (unfortunately) a mix that is influenced by how a monster does against each type.

Probably giants (mechanoid, etc) are the best against mages, that is why they are the most commonly made monster by far. Sprites and celestials would be good against 1H players. Some other monsters might be good against other types of melee players but there aren't many of them (though such styles can be just as good).

Kills-to-wins is not the best pure measure. If anything, plain numbers of wins (or kills) is the best measure. (I'm not sure if a kill increases the quality of a gift versus a win). But kill ratio is still something to consider, and it's the easiest way to compare monsters that have different lifetimes, PL, or chaosing.

Kills might also be too random, especially at high PL when monsters appear regularly. At that point, why should any experienced opponent die when they can flee? Thus "kills" might be exceptionally rare for no good reason.

I'm not sure the idea of spirit shield being a normalizer is always the proper way to think. That may depend on the type of player, and why they die. Some dying players might be low level melee doing item world or something.

Great idea for a monster name: in remembrance of remindinding

Kidding, of course.

Why kid when you can make it a reality (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

ok, so:

i remember (by myself)

you remember (by yourdelf)

i remind you

you remind me
right?

Yup.

another 1000 tickets well spent. see, i told you i would be catching horses

according to my calculations, a mace or estoc of balance may outperform a slaughter weapon if crit damage is high enough. it depends on the impact of the increased number of procs, which i will not bother trying to calculate since i will have to test it out anyway

another 1000 tickets well spent. see, i told you i would be catching horses

according to my calculations, a mace or estoc of balance may outperform a slaughter weapon if crit damage is high enough. it depends on the impact of the increased number of procs, which i will not bother trying to calculate since i will have to test it out anyway

congrats! I forgot to put my tickets in on it yesterday (I have a long history of 10-20k tickets on PEMS resulting in nothing, or worthless chaos tokens) but when I saw it went to you, that softened the blow a lot (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

By the way - my own calculations show balance to be definitely behind in damage - even for DW, with fat5 on both weapons (and this applied to plain & savage prefix armors, several weapon setups, and even with heavy armor - slaughter and balance both). This applied at any percentile, and any forge level, too. I'm interested in what calculation you did to see otherwise...

That said, like you say, the proc rate increase may outweigh that difference (or at least considerably narrow the gap). I really hope so. It would be cool to see. Though can it really be a meta change if you're the only person playing 2H at high level anyway? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I'm interested in what calculation you did to see otherwise...

i used my own gear as a basis to calculate relative damage, factoring in crit chance, crit damage and heartseeker. slaughter is still ahead in raw numbers (not considering the impact of procs), but the gap gets very narrow even without full savage or armour forged to the same level as weapons, to the point where experiments are needed to know for sure

another 1000 tickets well spent. see, i told you i would be catching horses

according to my calculations, a mace or estoc of balance may outperform a slaughter weapon if crit damage is high enough. it depends on the impact of the increased number of procs, which i will not bother trying to calculate since i will have to test it out anyway

Lucker. I spent 1500 and got absolutely nothing.

4 days to get from 496 to 497.

Mage is hella fast! (Especially the time it takes to get killed (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif))

Wish I have more time to suffer play.

Reached lv.220 during my Arena runs and created 2 new monsters to celebrate.

4 days to get from 496 to 497.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

20 days to get from 496 to 497... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/faint.gif)

Only 3 left now (60 days). (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Lvl. 479 and unlocked two more monster slots.

Bumping main monster above 1400 really hit a sweet spot huh
And PL 1104 is barely worth anything anymore...to think not even too long ago it was high enough to encounter often (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)
(and let's not talk about gift factor aka useless factor since the last monster lab change (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) )



edit: and with today's wins, main monster has now 657 total wins, exactly 200 more than when I raised it from its old power level.
Roughly 5 wins/day. And only 3 gifts/day. Doesn't compute.

This post has been edited by Juggernaut Santa: Mar 6 2020, 01:16

Roughly 5 wins/day. And only 3 gifts/day. Doesn't compute.

I keep saying this, but nobody ever seems to listen...

Wins do not give an automatic gift. They have a chance to give a gift that increases in likeliness depending on how many battles have been won, and how much time has passed, since the last gift.

There may be an internal cooldown on gifts, too, but I am not sure about this.

My 2250s can get 10+ wins a day with only 3 gifts to show for it.

This post has been edited by lestion: Mar 6 2020, 10:00

Forgot to participate in the last armor lotto. It's been like what, more than a year since the last time I didn't join lotto.

I guess I'm slowly fading away...