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> HentaiVerse 0.76, Wall-EEEE

 
post Jul 28 2013, 01:33
Post #4881
Lement



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@buktore: since title bonus doesn't work for mage damage, cast spells, use fus-ro-dah?

@Ichy: I am quite amused by your idea of rage bar.

@gc: Not necessarily, but the problem I see is that people can unlock the multiple elements and still just use one in battle.

Anyway, I'm more concerned about the AP requirements anyway:

Let's take two nice and good levels, like level 155 and 310.

AP costs:

for both:
Better Imperil:
155: 1 AP(mit-30, specific-20, t=6)
310: 10 AP(mit-45, specific-45, t=9) (but given the values of who you imperil, holy can skimp on this a bit as needed)

Faster Imperil:
155: 3 AP(1 target, CD=2, CT=0.7)
310: 15 AP(3 targets, CD=0; CT=0.6 but cost = 15)

Total Imperil:
155: 4 AP
310: 25 AP

Honestly, 155 versions of imperil look kind of weak so I guess they can be ignored outside boss fights.

Single-Element:
155:
Havoc: 12 AP(T1 5 target, t2 6 targets)
Sorcery: 3 AP (kind of weak benefit, so can be possibly skipped)
Elementalism: 2 AP
Archmage: 5 AP (CD = 6)

Total: 22 AP

310:
Havoc: 36 AP(5-7-9 targets)
Sorcery: 10 AP (still kind of weak compared to other in this list)
Elementalism: 10 AP (CD 3)
Archmage: 21 AP(CD 5)

total: 77 AP

Holy(skipping soul fire since a) not fair, and (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) takes some time to use, much like focusing, so is better if you can avoid using it):
155:
Smite: 8 AP

Total: 8 AP

310:
Smite: 8 AP (maxed)
Banish: 12 AP (maxed)
Paradise: 7 AP (CD 6, targets 8)
Holyperil: 10 AP (-20 mit)
total: 37 AP.

Well, 40 levels of ability boost isn't cheap past a certain level; I'd wager 115-155 would cost little less than 1 mil?

As for balance for the overall result....
Against Holy
- Holy spells cost more in MP to cast than elemental.

For Holy:
+ The overall damage on any difficulty is higher when given equal magic scores, even after imperil, most notable on low difficulties when imperil isn't used. This alone, given the "offense over all" mentality that exists for a reason - after all, allows to gather stuff faster, is pretty big argument for it.
+ Magic scores won't be equal, given that prof-heavy redwood is now kind of bad now - the EDBs roughly match(katalox wins a little here), but leg redwood's MDB ≃ ex katalox MDB. Though jolly good for those of us that still have ebony staves.
+ Holy has better proc.
+ Holy has better healing, which is kind of important at 155.
+ Holy needs less APs.

Well, this sort of difference isn't necessarily bad. But the problem I have with this sort of progression from elemental to holy(once you get strong enough/get holyperil/can eat the mp cost due econ5/aether/frugal/plain MP pool increase as you level)[And it is progression from elemental to holy, look at any phase auction] is that the APs and MPs are against this sort of progression: if anything, they support going from holy(little AP required) to elemental(much more AP required) - I honestly think the AP costs of elemental and holy should be reversed or something, but then again they don't exactly operate same way, given that elemental can mostly skimp on sorcery if they're tight, and holy on better imperil).

Well, there is the situation of needing to run IWs in which case elemental maybe or maybe not have a place for mana usage, but even there speed is most that matters, though there is the lack of stamina to consider. And honestly, dualclassing holy+elemental seems to be even more expensive tbh.

This post has been edited by Lement: Jul 28 2013, 01:37
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post Jul 28 2013, 04:42
Post #4882
buktore



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QUOTE(Lement @ Jul 28 2013, 06:33) *

@buktore: since title bonus doesn't work for mage damage, cast spells, use fus-ro-dah?


... I wonder how on earth did you managed to interpreted what I said as some kind of attacks against mage— I was trying to help, in fact... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

Here's a hint : The fact that mages do not need to fill the OC bar nor using skill in order to be viable & successful is a good thing...

This post has been edited by buktore: Jul 28 2013, 04:44
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post Jul 28 2013, 04:48
Post #4883
Lement



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I was pointing at how it could be exploited
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post Jul 28 2013, 05:23
Post #4884
buktore



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QUOTE(Lement @ Jul 28 2013, 09:48) *

I was pointing at how it could be exploited


QUOTE(buktore @ Jul 28 2013, 04:17) *

Beware of what you wish for...
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post Jul 28 2013, 06:31
Post #4885
piyin



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QUOTE(buktore @ Jul 28 2013, 05:42) *

... I wonder how on earth did you managed to interpreted what I said as some kind of attacks against mage— I was trying to help, in fact... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

Here's a hint : The fact that mages do not need to fill the OC bar nor using skill in order to be viable & successful is a good thing...



QUOTE(Lement @ Jul 28 2013, 05:48) *

I was pointing at how it could be exploited


I SENSE ANGRY... WE NEED MORE VIOLENCE!!!
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post Jul 28 2013, 07:24
Post #4886
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Make DW hit two enemies. FB being usable at most every 30 turns is ridiculous when mages can complain that their spells have 4 turn cooldowns and don't hit 10 enemies.
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post Jul 28 2013, 07:58
Post #4887
FiniteA



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QUOTE(Arxdewn @ Jul 28 2013, 13:24) *

Make DW hit two enemies. FB being usable at most every 30 turns is ridiculous when mages can complain that their spells have 4 turn cooldowns and don't hit 10 enemies.


(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) You have never play a mage and do not understand what it means when a T1 spell has cooldown. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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post Jul 28 2013, 08:07
Post #4888
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D&D style cleave for DW
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post Jul 28 2013, 09:23
Post #4889
HTTP/308



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QUOTE(danixxx @ Jul 27 2013, 03:20) *

Here is a good point for the patch, i am finally feeling stronger each time i level up instead of weaker.


I think it's your imagination
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post Jul 28 2013, 10:23
Post #4890
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QUOTE(HTTP/308 @ Jul 28 2013, 09:23) *

I think it's your imagination

except the rare levels where you get another level to regen (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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post Jul 28 2013, 10:36
Post #4891
Lement



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@buktore: Possibly, but does it honestly matter what form does the buff take that makes more people use it?

piyin: I understand what you're implying, but I think you'd be better off wasting that hot air about stuff in #To_Be_Added list.

Though, there is also the options of getting things nerfed just to watch the rage, but such things are rather obvious.

@Arxdewn: If you want more OC for skills you should use 1H. Also, one can also extend that to 2h melees complaining about parries is ridiculous when mages have cooldowns on their main aoe attacks. But tbh, you shouldn't be using DW against 10 monsters in the first place.
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post Jul 28 2013, 13:39
Post #4892
Hoheneim



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QUOTE(etothex @ Jul 28 2013, 08:07) *

D&D style cleave for DW


This is a really nice suggestion.
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post Jul 28 2013, 17:44
Post #4893
piyin



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QUOTE(Hoheneim @ Jul 28 2013, 14:39) *

This is a really nice suggestion.


but... Does it really means to be good? i wanna see what trashcat/Lement think about... maybe Ichy too.
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post Jul 28 2013, 19:31
Post #4894
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QUOTE(Lement @ Jul 28 2013, 15:36) *

@buktore: Possibly, but does it honestly matter what form does the buff take that makes more people use it?


I have no idea what you're talking about... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
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post Jul 28 2013, 21:44
Post #4895
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Added 'Snowflake' tracking to one of my scripts. Sharing the results of some Artifact shrining just now.
RIP Energy Drinks.

Received 2 Hath (19)
Received Last Elixir (12)
Received Energy Drink (10)
Received Happy Pills (6)
Your Agility has increased by one (4)
Your Strength has increased by one (2)
Your Dexterity has increased by one (4)
Your Endurance has increased by one (2)
Your Intelligence has increased by one (3)
Your Wisdom has increased by one (1)
Received 200x Crystal of Devotion (6)
Received 200x Crystal of Flames (4)
Received 200x Crystal of Corruption (5)
Received 200x Crystal of Frost (4)
Received 200x Crystal of Finesse (4)
Received 200x Crystal of Fortitude (3)
Received 200x Crystal of Swiftness (6)
Received 200x Crystal of Knowledge (3)
Received 200x Crystal of Cunning (3)
Received 200x Crystal of Lightning (2)
Received 200x Crystal of Tempest (3)
Received 200x Crystal of Vigor (3)
---

Crystals - 46 (42.2%)
Stats - 16 (14.7%)
Pills - 6 (5.5%)
Drinks - 10 (9.2%)
Elixirs - 12 (11%)
Hath - 19 (17.4%)

Total - 109 (100%)
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post Jul 28 2013, 21:58
Post #4896
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QUOTE(Arxdewn @ Jul 28 2013, 07:24) *

Make DW hit two enemies. FB being usable at most every 30 turns is ridiculous when mages can complain that their spells have 4 turn cooldowns and don't hit 10 enemies.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Oh, you're serious?! 4 turn cooldown?! I wish. Not until level 450. 450!!! Plus, for some reason it takes a lot longer to get to the next level of Arcane Focus than it does for Heartseeker. 405 level for MAX Arcane Focus, but only 385 for MAX Heartseeker. Maybe level 450 mages don't have a right to complain.. much, but everyone below that does. Playing as a mage is a little quicker, but can be harder than melee. Your attacks don't have cooldowns and don't cost Mana to perform. Plus, it costs a lot more Mastery Ability Slots and ability points to use effectively.
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post Jul 28 2013, 21:59
Post #4897
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Alot of things changed while I was gone. 0_0
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post Jul 29 2013, 04:27
Post #4898
piyin



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useless post i was triying to make take place here... sorry.. read the next one.

This post has been edited by piyin: Jul 29 2013, 04:29
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post Jul 29 2013, 04:28
Post #4899
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QUOTE(Insania @ Jul 28 2013, 22:59) *

Alot of things changed while I was gone. 0_0


and some others are going to get... crazy... the usual stuff around every update, you will soon hateLOVE this and find your way in the next path to hell WONDERFUL update... so dont hope anything worry... OK? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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post Jul 29 2013, 07:31
Post #4900
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QUOTE(Lement @ Jul 28 2013, 01:36) *

@Arxdewn: If you want more OC for skills you should use 1H. Also, one can also extend that to 2h melees complaining about parries is ridiculous when mages have cooldowns on their main aoe attacks. But tbh, you shouldn't be using DW against 10 monsters in the first place.



QUOTE(DYasha @ Jul 28 2013, 12:58) *

Your attacks don't have cooldowns and don't cost Mana to perform. Plus, it costs a lot more Mastery Ability Slots and ability points to use effectively.


Mage attack doesn't have a cooldown, at T1, T2 is 4/2 turns, and T3 is 7/4 turns. Frenzied blows takes about THIRTY. Using the logic of switching to 1h to use more OC skills, I can suggest you don't cast spells and instead whack enemies with a weapon. If you can want to use your most powerful spells in rapid succession, why can't dw expect the same?
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