[X] My Assistant

People may not know everything about how quantum physics work, yet we can still predict the two-gap effect with light - in fact, once we've done empirical tests that show that effect enough times we have the grounds to say that it will happen the next time too(in 18th century), even if we even do not have the term "quantum physics" in our vocabulary yet.

The math skillchip used was mostly on the theoretical side.

Similarly, if you want a formula for LOTD, instead of approaching it from figuring out exactly how quality formula and php random number generator works, try to record how many rounds you need to do on iwbth to get 100 exquisites on each lotd level while having the monsters you face relatively same(not including arena clear bonuses because they have vastly different bonus).

The number of 373 legendaries in a last million equips is an example of this empirical approach. It doesn't show any facts about equipment generation in itself, but it can still be used to make decisions relating to it.

See, information we did not have. How are we supposed to know or ever figure any part of that out?

It seems a tad silly to apply complex PDF's and algorithms involving computationally intensive transcendental mathematical functions to a browser game. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

The math skillchip used was mostly on the theoretical side.

Similarly, if you want a formula for LOTD, instead of approaching it from figuring out exactly how quality formula and php random number generator works, try to record how many rounds you need to do on iwbth to get 100 exquisites on each lotd level while having the monsters you face relatively same(not including arena clear bonuses because they have vastly different bonus).

The number of 373 legendaries in a last million equips is an example of this empirical approach. It doesn't show any facts about equipment generation in itself, but it can still be used to make decisions relating to it.

Hence why I said let's assume.

That method would get you some numbers, it would be better if you did in grindfest and only counted those after maximum round bonus is applied.

Except those 373 lengendaires were not specified to be from non-arena or trophy drops, just only the last million. So it really just tells us a fact in a snapshot of the HV, nothing actually usable or that we can go on with.

This post has been edited by skillchip: Jun 22 2013, 17:50

People may not know everything about how quantum physics work, yet we can still predict the two-gap effect with light - in fact, once we've done empirical tests that show that effect enough times we have the grounds to say that it will happen the next time too(in 18th century), even if we even do not have the term "quantum physics" in our vocabulary yet.

The math skillchip used was mostly on the theoretical side.

Similarly, if you want a formula for LOTD, instead of approaching it from figuring out exactly how quality formula and php random number generator works, try to record how many rounds you need to do on iwbth to get 100 exquisites on each lotd level while having the monsters you face relatively same(not including arena clear bonuses because they have vastly different bonus).

The number of 373 legendaries in a last million equips is an example of this empirical approach. It doesn't show any facts about equipment generation in itself, but it can still be used to make decisions relating to it.

how does knowing make any difference? Make desisions???? Like which ones??? and how those make any difference if nothing has a solid base to rely on?

Hence why I said let's assume.

That method would get you some numbers, it would be better if you did in grindfest and only counted those after maximum round bonus is applied.

Except those 373 lengendaires were not specified to be from non-arena or trophy drops, just only the last million. So it really just tells us a fact in a snapshot of the HV, nothing actually usable or that we can go on with.

Wiseman told.

piyin: Well, one decision tenboro could make that relates to it is "I don't want legendaries to be that common" and increase the min. quality needed for legendary.

As for how does knowing how many iwbth rounds you need to do for 100 exquisite+s with a given lotd help you, google "return of investment".

This post has been edited by Lement: Jun 22 2013, 18:15

How are we supposed to know or ever figure any part of that out?

Why would you want to?

Why would you want to?

To bestow the information on the wiki (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Why would you want to?

You know those people who say that the RNG is out to get them and that they should have gotten more/less "insert quality here" equipment and then you telling them to come back with a sample size that is bigger then a shoe size? One thing telling us this or helping us get to the answer to it would do is give proof to those cases showing how wrong they are.

The other thing it would do is tear a hole in all the secrecy involved that goes between a monster dying, or trophy being shrined, or arena cleared, and possible end results. All we know right now is numbers are made, they do stuff and you get an output. What exactly is the point on not helping to allow the players to understand the process? Will it hurt the game? Most likely not. Will it reduce complaints? Possibly, and if not the complainer can just be directed to the process of equipment generation (on the wiki or forums) and they might learn why their complaint is wrong, which works slightly better then just being told they are wrong, but there is no actual information on that subject at this given time.

Gibberish ahead: Because of the shroud that is between the player and the generation process, and the way the human brain reacts to extremes, the typical player will remember crude and legendary items more anything in the middle so this leads them to complain about seeing too many/too few even if they got exactly as many as they should. They just won't recall that they got a decent amount of equipment in the middle, and explains why they get quite miffed when something has all the wrong stats.

And personally: Why would I not want to?

This post has been edited by skillchip: Jun 22 2013, 18:59

Why would you want to?

Well....people do complain a lot about drops. With the drop roll system disclosed, there will be dedicated mathematicians who can reduce your workload for free. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by varst: Jun 22 2013, 19:33

All we know right now is numbers are made, they do stuff and you get an output. What exactly is the point on not helping to allow the players to understand the process?

You know quite well that there is a lot more information available about how loot is generated than "numbers are made". Literally the only way I could make it more transparent is to write out the full pseudocode for the generation process, and I really have better things to do with my time.

If people know the math exactly, won't that going to give more reason for people who have the propensity to whine about this sort of stuff to whine even more? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

This post has been edited by buktore: Jun 22 2013, 19:50

If people know the math exactly, won't that going to give more reason for people who have the propensity to whine about this sort of stuff to whine even more? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

It'd also make them far more likely to be rebuked.

edit: not butt

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Jun 22 2013, 19:55

If people know the math exactly, won't that going to give more reason for people who have the propensity to whine about this sort of stuff to whine even more? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

then why the hell does the math was made in the first place? Tenboro like to make us suffer on this matter... the Trollmaster for sure.

Yes tenboro, there is a lot of information, problem is most if it has to be discarded due to its age, and inability to be verified due to both questions unasked, and asked questions being unanswered.

Examples:
You told us MBP Normal and IWBTH qualityboost and quality_bonus, both of which which may no longer be valid because of difficulty changes.

The above ties into bonuses from monsters, but because the above wasn't solved there is no data to start from.

Trophy values, only way to get a specifically set quality mod, values may or may not be whats in the wiki

Equipment is weighted based on some stats being more powerful the others, the weighted q you specified earlier. Due to bonuses and penalties based on how many PABs appear on the item compared to how many could for that specific quality difficulties arise

[00:57:33] Tenboro: equipment quality is just the average of all stats, weighted for importance, plus the PAB bonus/penality

[14:05] <~tenboro> no randomness involved with quality bonuses

This may mean the Random(1,1000) value that was in old quality calculation guesses that demoneyesbob was trying to wrestle out of you no longer are valid

Loot_quality = Initial_quality_roll(1-1000) + (Difficulty_bonus + Round_bonus + Monster_stat_bonus + Arena_bonus) * Difficulty_factor * (1 + Luck_of_the_Draw_level * 0.01)

or

Loot_quality = Initial_quality_roll(1-1000) + (Difficulty_bonus + Monster_stat_bonus*Difficulty_Multiplier + ((Round_bonus + Arena_bonus) * Difficulty_factor)) * (1 + Luck_of_the_Draw_level * 0.01)

Another place you stated monster bonus caps at 1000, and a level 200 monster gives around 150-200 from its stats, this is probably outdated info at this time with the recent changes

Probably more can be dug up, but again it all comes down to what is actually usable and correct at this time?

Our whining will change from 'baaaw we don't know how exactly we are trolled' to 'baaaw the chances are rubbish!' (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Our whining will change from 'baaaw we don't know how exactly we are trolled' to 'baaaw the chances are rubbish!' (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

And all Tenboro has to say to that is "deal with it" instead of trying to dole out non-information.

Seriously, I'm not sure how you're losing out on such a proposition, Ten

And all Tenboro has to say to that is "deal with it" instead of trying to dole out non-information.

That would be boring as hell... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I'm with buktore on that one. Tenb likes to find fancy ways to harass us.
Just take Frith as a prime example (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Yes tenboro, there is a lot of information, problem is most if it has to be discarded due to its age, and inability to be verified due to both questions unasked, and asked questions being unanswered.

Examples:
You told us MBP Normal and IWBTH qualityboost and quality_bonus, both of which which may no longer be valid because of difficulty changes.

The above ties into bonuses from monsters, but because the above wasn't solved there is no data to start from.

Trophy values, only way to get a specifically set quality mod, values may or may not be whats in the wiki

Equipment is weighted based on some stats being more powerful the others, the weighted q you specified earlier. Due to bonuses and penalties based on how many PABs appear on the item compared to how many could for that specific quality difficulties arise
This may mean the Random(1,1000) value that was in old quality calculation guesses that demoneyesbob was trying to wrestle out of you no longer are valid

or
Another place you stated monster bonus caps at 1000, and a level 200 monster gives around 150-200 from its stats, this is probably outdated info at this time with the recent changes

Probably more can be dug up, but again it all comes down to what is actually usable and correct at this time?

This is gonna sounds like a balls licking fella... but this is just the pure true... HAIL THE TRASHCAT!!!!

That would be boring as hell... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

yeah... we dont have any other ways to speand our live in the forums other than whining... right?