[X] My Assistant

Holy and Dark AoE spam. Same as now.
You're forced to make choices and not use the same 2 spells over and over. Sounds less repetitive to me. Could use some more combo-like mechanics but I'm sure that will come in due time.
So we should go back to (Alt)+1, #, R,R,#,R,R,#...? Because that right there was "strategy" before.
Isn't that... worse?

(already most of this in irc)

The holy/dark rotation could have been superior in overall kill speed if you didn't forge your phase AND could tank reasonably well. However, these combinations are in short supply - for example, uno had more than five times the holyscore as darkscore last patch, and he wasn't even forged in 2 pieces of gear. Last but not least, imperil worked better than splitting edb. Not to mention real time spent determining which element to cast since procs are fickle.
And situation where you can tank well don't occur that often - though I have gone out of my way to create them for convenience.

There is much more strategy in choosing which target, or choosing whether to conserve mana or not on a wave(given when you do you might have to cure, thus spending more overall) than just casting the strongest spell available on the most numbers of targets - there are few cases where you have to choose which grouping you'll fire at first with lower tier spells once they're split up, but that doesn't even add to the time taken when you're cruising - which has so little choices that the skill ramp by knowing the monster base matters much less now.

Oh, and I think I speak for everyone when I say if you could even find a situation where it was advantageous for you to use R over normal cast method outside FSM I weep for you.

But at least it means you understand that mages who could finally oneshot actually upped the difficulty.

EDIT: quick thought on making the game less grindy:

Remove most if not all monster loot drop rewards - distribute them by handouts instead. Don't allow trading them. This way, it doesn't matter how much grinding is required and people who want to play can play and people who want gallery credits don't waste server time.

This post has been edited by Lement: Jun 2 2013, 09:34

I do not understand why you have to stress the importance of strategy and non button mashing for mages. Whem i played shade estoc or heavy estoc, all i had to do was hold down numbers, then stance when 250. Where is the strategy in that? Is that not even more repetitive?

Joe could you be tenboro's test account? Maybe you have tested it as much as he did.

Ok fine, I'll let you win that one. Ok, so we have 2 guys rotating Holy/Dark. Big whoop. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Still, I want you to find a bunch of people willing to testify for your case that 2-EDB was superior.
I'm pretty sure that a bunch of other big-time mages like ChosenUno/danixxx/etc will back me up on this one.
Yes it was. Getting drop after drop at a fast pace was fun.

Too much things to say something about but i'm going to react on this, in high difficulties before the patch dark had to cycle between holy and dark spells because breached defense gave more damage than just spamming dark spells.

And that's how it should work getting more efficient because you have to play different spells not because you have stupid cooldowns.

This post has been edited by danixxx: Jun 2 2013, 10:09

that stressing is from having the old comparison of "melees if you want inattention, mages if you want fast".

Well I agree with Joe, the patch is pretty good overall just has some quirks. Not everyone felt it the same way, I made off like a fucking bandit. Let's see:
- My Regen lasts longer
- I do more damage
- My max OC is now 250%
- I can slot my weapon skills
- My EXP has shot way the fuck up (3 levels in 1 day!)
- My monster is bringing in more stuff
- I have AP to spare since I don't need many spells
- I have HS waaaay earlier than I normally would have

But do go on complaining some more like it matters, it worked out so well for Frith. Tenboro's not a democratic person, he'll listen to good suggestions and torture the whiners. You don't "win" anything by arguing or by having others agree with you. You'd think people would have noticed that by now but eh... they just want to mash their faces into their keyboards and get credits. Too bad for them HV was designed to be a credit sink. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Oh, and I think I speak for everyone when I say if you could even find a situation where it was advantageous for you to use R over normal cast method outside FSM I weep for you.

Pre-0.76, Hard difficulty, I could get through all the schoolgirl arenas within an hour, most of which involved Alt-6/7/8/9 -> click -> tap R a few times, repeat. Due to the position of my hand when Alt-#ing, I could click R using my pinkie. And since my thumb was on Alt the entire time, I could quickly press space to move to the next round.
Sure, EXP and drops were meh on Hard, but being able to get through a day's arenas in two hours with minimum stress, yielding about 150k in credits plus an occasional good equip was not bad at all.

Tenboro, the system where monsters bleed morale and hunger for three days before it stops should be changed, as it still empty their hunger bar and a good chunk of morale. Instead, give monsters a lock mode like equipment has. When locked, a monster's morale and hunger doesn't drop, and the monster becomes temporarily inactive. Reactivating the monster by unlocking it can't be done until at least three days has passed.

That's a good suggestion IMHO, but it should be on top of the existing system instead of replacing it.

while I see ZERO posts here saying "Yeah, I think Joe is right on this one".

Make that 1. Although you're free to post or not post at your own discretion.

You haven't gotten a single thing right about maging

I use 2 EDBs instead of 1. Apparently that represents the sum total of all knowledge on maging! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

proper maging

Funny how you don't seem to know that much about this "proper" method either. You didn't answer my questions about it.

Get back to me when you actually have people agreeing with your side of things. On any point.

You mean besides the 1 person whose opinion actually matters at all? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Is that not even more repetitive?

Didn't say it wasn't. Though I get the feeling that melee will be made more complicated in due time.

in high difficulties before the patch dark had to cycle between holy and dark spells

And thus I am absolved of being a poor strategist. Thank you kindly.

I made off like a fucking bandit.

I think most melee did fairly well for themselves. It's more about where mages are now.

But do go on complaining some more like it matters, it worked out so well for Frith.

I doubt the next patch will be geared as heavily to frustrate just one player... Unless it's Frith again! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Then again, I did suggest a certain "megacrystals" idea... hehehehe...

And thus I am absolved of being a poor strategist. Thank you kindly.

Nope. Try again. There's one crucial thing different in what you're doing vs him.
I'll give you a few mins to figure it out.

<tenboro> mage usage at 300+ last 24 hours.. 48.5%
<tenboro> it was ~35% a week ago..

Just going back to square one. There can be multiple reason that can contribute to the usage:

1. mages are too OP.
2. There's a bug somewhere.
3. Mage's not that OP, but because of various reasons people don't want to play melee.
4. Mage actually sucks dick, but there are many who just have way better mage equips than melee equips to counter this disadvantage.
5. People just love the game to be fast-paced.

What we don't know:
-> mages refers to elemental mages or holy/dark mages?
-> is there any bug in HV we don't know that people are utilizing?
-> How fast can a melee go, and how fast can a mage go? (in terms of turns)
-> are we doing fair comparison between mages and melees? And we using equips of almost the same tier to compare their efficiency?
-> are people enjoying the game, or they just play because they want to fulfill something?

Balancing around usage can be a good idea as players certainly knows better strategy than the developer. But that's only one dimension and can never uncover all the possible issues. So arguments and counter-arguments based on that one line can be fairly pointless.
Also, hard data are hard data. I'd like to see more analysis from skillchip using hard numbers, because everyone of us can be biased when making those judgements.

I've said this a long time ago: do people really want HV to become a deep game full of strategy? Think about it: Fruit Ninja's fun even if there's no strategy at all. Strategy doesn't necessarily means the game will become more fun to play.
I can kind of understand why the credits gain needs to be nerfed, but I'm also puzzled by the need to add CD to offensive spells, because offensive spell is the bread and butter to mages. And if you say 'there's still people playing mages', well, read my suggested reasons above. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-> How fast can a melee go, and how fast can a mage go? (in terms of turns)
-> are we doing fair comparison between mages and melees?

No.

@Cashino: Aiee. Imperil & forging, try that.

This post has been edited by Lement: Jun 2 2013, 10:33

does Tenboro really want HV to become a deep game full of strategy?

Fixed.

If you left it up to the playerbase it would be so mindlessly easy that it would inevitably have to be disconnected from the galleries altogether (which defeats the purpose).

So it has a purpose if it isn't mindlessly easy? :confused:

Since you didn't answer my question, I'll assume you have no idea what the answer is.
(it's also hilarious how you immediately jumped at the thought that "Hey I'm doing the same thing he's doing, I must be right!" lol)

Here's a hint: Danixxx said he had a magic score of atleast 111k dark.

Want another hint or should I just answer this one for you?

@Cashino: Aiee. Imperil & forging, try that.

I was using Imperil as well.
Forging...meh, I used whatever I got from my monsters, but preferred to save credits for training.

3. Mage's not that OP, but because of various reasons people don't want to play melee.
4. Mage actually sucks dick, but there are many who just have way better mage equips than melee equips to counter this disadvantage.

that's my reason for playing mage.

First, I love it even though it is not the best choice.
Second, my gears cost more than 50M, how could I throw them away and how could I find equal worrior gears in such a short time?


Addition, Go and see the WTS area, almost nobody bid for mage gears in auction and nobody even want to sale them ..

The auction of this week: https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showtopic=129854
An EDB max phase used to be 500k~800k but 80k for now and worrior gears are quite well. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
(BTW there are alomost no mage gears in next weekly auction, the market of middle class mage gears has dead.)

It should have to be very encourage to find such a Legendary Frugal Gossamer Pants of the Heaven-sent, but now I can't find anyone want to buy it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

This post has been edited by gc00018: Jun 2 2013, 10:52

150 pages already and this patch is only 2 weeks old, people must be really mad...

Do people really want HV to become a deep game full of strategy?

I don't need your fix, thank you. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you left it up to the playerbase it would be so mindlessly easy that it would inevitably have to be disconnected from the galleries altogether (which defeats the purpose).

Less strategy doesn't necessarily means it's easy. There can be multiple ways to achieve the same result. And I'm not sure why your thought would lead to 'mindlessly easy', because I'm talking about strategy. Unless you really want to tie strategy to easiness.

And, TBH, if you're going to say imperil -> imperil -> imperil -> tier 3 is more strategic than t3 -> t3 -> t2 -> t2 , then well..., people surely find better strategy. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It should have to be very encourage to find such a Legendary Frugal Gossamer Pants of the Heaven-sent, but now I can't find anyone want to buy it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

10k and that's the best I can do! Or should I call in my frugal expert to beat you down to 5k

Just going back to square one. There can be multiple reason that can contribute to the usage:

It's really not so easy to switch gears post-300 if you've made large investments. Plus some people are just stubborn. Like me, I'd probably still play shade even if it was nerfed into the ground...