[X] My Assistant

SOME of the Mage are strong because they spend shitload amount of credit on there equipment, how is that something bad that you need to nerf it?

They should still be stronger than unforged players in this patch. Forged equip should mean 'they're stronger than normal', not 'they can facemelt everything'.

If you think players credit are accumulating too fast, obviously first policy is decreasing the dropping rate, which I have suggested before. This is direct and effective.

Making the game tedious to decrease rounds and hence chance to get credit is a second policy, it decreases enjoyment. When a first policy is already available, you don't need to achieve the goal by all means.

Great games are simple. Nerfing and troublesome are far from challenging.

@Rei-Tenshi

So your major complain should be 'why the excess AP's wiped out', because what you suggested is similar to what the new system's doing (i.e. uneven AP cost for different level).

Note that I don't have a problem with adding 300+ content, but I'd say that it's difficult to add them in this patch because there's so many things changed and everyone needs time to adjust to new things.

Also, I also agree mages' nerfed too much. But then it's better to start at shit-bottom and start buffing everything about maging again, simply because balancing on MMO is always difficult.

MMO is always about new things that's to nerf/forcefully make players change their style. It's because the MMOs need to recycle the excess amount of currency. In RL there's inflation and other ways to recycle capital, but that's almost lacking in MMOs. That's why there's always a need for new content. You think there's new content because they want to keep people playing? No, they need new content because they need to keep the economy balanced.

They should still be stronger than unforged players in this patch. Forged equip should mean 'they're stronger than normal', not 'they can facemelt everything'.

So u really think that people spent hours, donating money and renting server just to get stronger than normal? wow, just wow

@Rei-Tenshi

So your major complain should be 'why the excess AP's wiped out', because what you suggested is similar to what the new system's doing (i.e. uneven AP cost for different level).

Note that I don't have a problem with adding 300+ content, but I'd say that it's difficult to add them in this patch because there's so many things changed and everyone needs time to adjust to new things.

Also, I also agree mages' nerfed too much. But then it's better to start at shit-bottom and start buffing everything about maging again, simply because balancing on MMO is always difficult.

MMO is always about new things that's to nerf/forcefully make players change their style. It's because the MMOs need to recycle the excess amount of currency. In RL there's inflation and other ways to recycle capital, but that's almost lacking in MMOs. That's why there's always a need for new content. You think there's new content because they want to keep people playing? No, they need new content because they need to keep the economy balanced.

I am confident to say that you don't know shit about mmo. I'd never seen an mmo without inflation.

I'm just curious about all the comments that mage is no fun anymore; what is fun about melee? As for time it takes to clear things like legendary IW in 10m, these sorts of numbers get thrown around all the time and it always seems to only be of the top 1 respective player, not average, or median or any other normal measuring scheme. I know I certainly cant finish a legendary IW in 10m, and I am in half legendary, half mag (average /351) which is probably much higher than average.

@Rei-Tenshi
So your major complain should be 'why the excess AP's wiped out', because what you suggested is similar to what the new system's doing (i.e. uneven AP cost for different level).

The only thing that's the same is the uneven cost. In the old system, the moment the spell is available, you would be able to get the full benefit. In this new system, you get a mostly useless spell that requires you to be high level anyway to use properly.

My method would be a fix. Tenboro's method is both a fix + a nerf.

Note that I don't have a problem with adding 300+ content, but I'd say that it's difficult to add them in this patch because there's so many things changed and everyone needs time to adjust to new things.

I was saying that he should have added those stuff instead of changing to this mess we have right now. The current patch added nothing except to make things more tedious for everybody. Not just mage clear speed, but also credit nerfs, exp nerfs, monster hunger, etc.

Also, I also agree mages' nerfed too much. But then it's better to start at shit-bottom and start buffing everything about maging again, simply because balancing on MMO is always difficult.

MMO is always about new things that's to nerf/forcefully make players change their style. It's because the MMOs need to recycle the excess amount of currency. In RL there's inflation and other ways to recycle capital, but that's almost lacking in MMOs. That's why there's always a need for new content. You think there's new content because they want to keep people playing? No, they need new content because they need to keep the economy balanced.

This game doesn't need to be balanced like an MMO. Being overpowered in this game doesn't matter because guess what? We don't even have PVP in this game. It's all PVE and the player's enjoyment. Most of the nerfs aren't even needed, its more of a "fuck you, don't enjoy my game too much".

They should still be stronger than unforged players in this patch. Forged equip should mean 'they're stronger than normal', not 'they can facemelt everything'.

That is ridiculous. There is little difference between an unforged mage who can do 50% to a monster vs a max forged mage who can do 90% damage. They will still both need 2 casts to kill. What is the point of forging if it wouldn't make a difference in kill speed?

I'm just curious about all the comments that mage is no fun anymore; what is fun about melee? As for time it takes to clear things like legendary IW in 10m, these sorts of numbers get thrown around all the time and it always seems to only be of the top 1 respective player, not average, or median or any other normal measuring scheme. I know I certainly cant finish a legendary IW in 10m, and I am in half legendary, half mag (average /351) which is probably much higher than average.

Make sure you read clearly first.

I am confident to say that you don't know shit about mmo. I'd never seen an mmo without inflation.

I didn't say there's no inflation; I said MMO needs to recycle the excess amount of currency. If there's no effective way to do so, there will be inflation. The RL example is to state inflation's a way to deal with excessive currency.

Old mage was totally balance-breaker.

I can however train now even more.

Sweet optimism. The one problem is: raise credits will not be easy like before. So unnecessary expenses are the reason for the Great Butthurt.
P.S. Still got none of pills. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

This post has been edited by Laboq: May 24 2013, 11:18

We lost those additional pack rat' slots we trained before the patch. So we had to retrain em. Also we lost some credits by reason of reduction in trainin' price.

patience, my friend. it brings you... discount in training price (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

@Rei-Tenshi

To some extent I agree it's a nerf. But you also need to note that the full benefit is base on a lv. 250 player. Putting that on a lv. 50-100 player would make it way more powerful than it should. Also, you can now cast that on multiple monsters for more APs. And that's what I called 'giving spells more variety': your spell becomes weaker, but it can also become better. That's what a 'full-benefit' system can't do.

Probably not everybody; as I said, melees seems to be enjoying the patch. Credit/exp nerf isn't what I can say as it's in Tenboro's book as to 'what's the appropriate level'. Monster hunger is also something that needs to be done eventually as it's revenue-generating before the patch: you can make many of those low-PL monsters without much effort, and they'll bring in things indefinitely. It's like an annuity except the monster never dies.

This game NEEDS to be balanced because, well, it's one MMO! Lacking PvP isn't even a inended feature for many MMOs. Also, note that credits can be used in various ways, as in getting mangas and posting bounties; those will also be affected if the game's generating too much currency.

As for maging, it's difficult to solve and it unrelated to the patch. Think about it: before the patch, you'll still ask the same question!

This post has been edited by varst: May 24 2013, 11:32

Checked my monsters after ~8 hours of sleep. 7x nothing (PL 46 - 456), 1x mid-grade leather (from PL 555 with double gift at 60%), 1x mid-grade metals (from PL 585 with double gift at 55%). That doesn't feel right... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

All I have to say is...







this was a good patch for lv.300+ light melee (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Monsters now only bring a gift starting when they have accumulated 100%. And play is possibly down so less deaths.

@varst: Tbh there are still more possible customization avenues - like for example, pre-patch I thought the "better spirit" ability would be split in several things, not just 1 dealing with both duration and kickin point..

As for eternal PL25 monsters: You can make same argument about loot drop trainings too - train them once and they'll keep giving you stuff for eternity. We should need to periodically retrain our loot drop trainings too or have them deteriorate!

And they're very limited by chaos tokens - nobody gathered any huge wealth with PL25s, it was something those who focused mainly on other stuff invested in for a little extra - major investments and rewards were still in PL500+ land. Unfortunately, database space for PL25s is as big as PL2250.

This post has been edited by Lement: May 24 2013, 11:51

They should still be stronger than unforged players in this patch. Forged equip should mean 'they're stronger than normal', not 'they can facemelt everything'.

Well, forging now gives less than 50% for 100 levels of forging and 36% for 50 levels of forging. That's not much at all (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Plus, nobody managed to facemelt everything last patch, people still need to imperil/magnet (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

@Rei-Tenshi

So your major complain should be 'why the excess AP's wiped out', because what you suggested is similar to what the new system's doing (i.e. uneven AP cost for different level).

Note that I don't have a problem with adding 300+ content, but I'd say that it's difficult to add them in this patch because there's so many things changed and everyone needs time to adjust to new things.

Also, I also agree mages' nerfed too much. But then it's better to start at shit-bottom and start buffing everything about maging again, simply because balancing on MMO is always difficult.

MMO is always about new things that's to nerf/forcefully make players change their style. It's because the MMOs need to recycle the excess amount of currency. In RL there's inflation and other ways to recycle capital, but that's almost lacking in MMOs. That's why there's always a need for new content. You think there's new content because they want to keep people playing? No, they need new content because they need to keep the economy balanced.

Adding lowbie content without endgame content is how you lose players. How many lowbies will manage to reach endgame? Not many. Compare that with the number of endgame players who are your core players, leaving them bored with nothing but the same old crap to do is dangerous.

Also, it's not better to start at shit-bottom and buff. To be honest, all he needed to do to nerf mages was to introduce the forge changes, and our damage would already go to hell. No need for all this extra tedious crap.

Old mage was totally balance-breaker.

Tell that to the guy who can do 200 rounds of Legendary IW IWBTH in less than 10 minutes. Or the guy who can go for 2000 rounds of IWBTH grindfest.

The illusion of mage being OP stems from the fact that about 2 people forges melee gear, 3 if you count TheTornPrince (he used to forge his gear). So yeah, not really a fair comparison, is it?

Probably not everybody; as I said, melees seems to be enjoying the patch. Credit/exp nerf isn't what I can say as it's in Tenboro's book as to 'what's the appropriate level'. Monster hunger is also something that needs to be done eventually as it's revenue-generating before the patch: you can make many of those low-PL monsters without much effort, and they'll bring in things indefinitely. It's like an annuity except the monster never dies.

Well, that could've been solved easily by 1. limiting the number of slots, and 2. remove the free win you get every check. No need to make this complicated (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

As for maging, it's difficult to solve and it unrelated to the patch. Think about it: before the patch, you'll still ask the same question!

Really? I thought if you just nerf forging like he did this patch it'll already screw mages over. Probably reduces endgame mages damage output by 20% or even more. Why did he have to go through all this again?

@Rei-Tenshi

To some extent I agree it's a nerf. But you also need to note that the full benefit is base on a lv. 250 player. Putting that on a lv. 50-100 player would make it way more powerful than it should.

Err...That's why we had an Ability Tree that unlocks every 10/20/50 levels. In the old system, a lvl 50 player wouldn't be able to access the stronger lvl 250 abilities because ... *gasp* he had to first reach lvl 250!

Probably not everybody; as I said, melees seems to be enjoying the patch.

The only reason that melees are enjoying this patch is because they could do the same thing they could previously, except with more item slots. If they couldn't see how much suffering the mages are going through, they would be complaining a lot more due this patch being almost all nerfs. I bet what they're really thinking is "Things got worse, but I'm glad I'm not a mage lol".

Credit/exp nerf isn't what I can say as it's in Tenboro's book as to 'what's the appropriate level'. Monster hunger is also something that needs to be done eventually as it's revenue-generating before the patch: you can make many of those low-PL monsters without much effort, and they'll bring in things indefinitely. It's like an annuity except the monster never dies.

There are a lot of suggestions in here that he could have picked instead of implementing monster hunger.
I've seen a suggestion limiting your monster limit to the player's level. Like 1 monster every 25 or 50 levels, and giving more slots to donors/toplisters. It would still deter multiple accounts because you have to level those accounts in order to use monsters anyway. But of course, Tenboro picks the option that requires the most grinding for all players.

This game NEEDS to be balanced because, well, it's one MMO! Lacking PvP isn't even a inended feature for many MMOs. Also, note that credits can be used in various ways, as in getting mangas and posting bounties; those will also be affected if the game's generating too much currency.

And why is that a problem? More credits means more money for bounties. And if he finds the costs of galleries to be too low, then raise those, instead of nerfing credit gain entirely.

As for maging, it's difficult to solve and it unrelated to the patch. Think about it: before the patch, you'll still ask the same question!

Well, mage got fucked anyway. Along with forge values. And I'm still waiting for Tenboro's answer to what he intends for mages to have over melee. See Lement's post if you want details on how Melee completely makes Maging obsolete now.

edit: And yes. If max forged Mages were the problem, then just nerf forge values and forge values alone. Why did he have to nerf EVERYTHING about mages?

This post has been edited by Rei-Tenshi: May 24 2013, 11:57

Uno: bit more than 2 people forge melee gear if you look at slaughter binding wars. It might even be greater than 5!