[X] My Assistant

T_Starrk: No, but player market can provide where to start to look at. And forging costs aren't even based on player market. Plus the fact that the game offers so much things of varying quality and class randomly that player market is pretty much a given.

Forging costs aren't based on the player market? So then why do crystallized phazons cost so much more than shade fragments? Isn't it because there's so much more demand by high-level players?

Did you even know what you talk about? Sorry for being rude but I guess you need to know some more about Hentaiverse and hit LV330+ and come back to see if you get it right or not. From you replying, I guess you have too much misunderstanding about this game.
Who told you that Leg/MAG is always better than EX? I have many mag gears that is even worse than EX.
Who told you that LEG/MAG gear is powerful enough to fight IW in X25? I can tell you that my helmet and power leg now is even better than LEG ones coz I did compare those gears with LEG ones after I upgrade their PMI. Besides, have you see my plate cuirass of protection yet? Can you found any LEG gears has that much PMI before any upgrade?
Who told you that prefix for heavy armor is very useful? Sadly, I found this is almost useless coz the prefix is likely to deduct your overall roll points and the benefit it brings is so tiny to make some significant change. For example, the Shielding Prefix, you really expecting that 5% block chance can do something? For me, I'd rather put the roll points back to PAB, ADB,PMI or even DM.
Seriously, man, there are a lot of things you need to know.

Have you even tried going in full plate?

You complained about survivability in IWBTH IWs, and then you said you use powers. . Have you tried going in full plate?

Something along the lines of these?

Legendary Plate Gauntlets of Protection

Legendary Plate Cuirass of Protection

Magnificent Mithril Plate Greaves of Protection

As far as I can see you're still wearing 2pc slaughter 2pc protection powers and 1 plate. You have no rights to complain about survival until you have tried full plate.

Plus, do you really expect any chump with <5M in gear and maybe 5-10M for the estoc should be easily clearing IWBTH IWs? Laughable.

This post has been edited by ChosenUno: Mar 22 2013, 17:55

Have you even tried going in full plate?

You complained about survivability in IWBTH IWs, and then you said you use powers. Have you tried going in full plate?

Something along the lines of these?

Legendary Plate Gauntlets of Protection

Legendary Plate Cuirass of Protection

Magnificent Mithril Plate Greaves of Protection

I'm now able to fight in X25 IW with my current gear. Though I have to use protection scrolls and feather weight shards to do so. And also, as I said before, PMI might not be the key problem, especially in X25 difficulty in IW and high level areans. Monsters's skills are too powerful. You have to kill them before they use skills or else you are in the danger of depleting all your recovers before you can win. And the survivability can not just be measured by PMI and DM.

T_Starrk: If you don't want to bring player market into it you still have to consider that bazaarprice for phazons is still 2.5x other mats.

fa怪叔叔: If the legendaries you talk about aren't better than exquisites don't call them legendaries.

As for Shielding prefix....Consider for a moment that your esteemed mag plate(only single piece of plate in a place where you need defense most, really?) has 14.86% base PMI, fitting snugly between exq max of 14.48 and 15.11 of mag max. Now cut, let's say not even 5(which they can indeed get), let's say just 2.5% off that number. 12.36%. That's over a % less than sup max. With mithril, it would cut off 4.06 burden, meaning some more evade and crit. Like with weapons, it is very hard to find a piece that can surpass lack of prefix. And even mag max pmi plates of protection have never cost so much to hold them up as esteemed against "30 mils in investment", so bringing one up is a bit silly.

As for prefix's effect on decreasing quality: There are already prefixes on weapons, starting at fine. Yet oh wonder of wonders I've yet to see an average ethereal. So I'm going to bunk this as a myth.

Your complaint is that you, while not maxed or having insane starting equips, have to not even go all out, just use a bit more effort(no, not even going all out) and defense when doing the hardest thing in the game that has a reachable goal? I'm not sure what do you expect.....You say you're using featherweights shards, but what about voidseeker ones? Aether ones? Infusions? Other scrolls? Focus spam for mana in early rounds to be able to cast cure in later ones.

No, regarding balance since speed is always brought up, I'm curious how fast do you do it(and with what ping)?

PS: A mage who spends ten times as much as you cannot do even less than half the difficulty IWs.

This post has been edited by Lement: Mar 22 2013, 18:01

I'm now able to fight in X25 IW with my current gear. Though I have to use protection scrolls and feather weight shards to do so. And also, as I said before, PMI might not be the key problem, especially in X25 difficulty in IW and high level areans. Monsters's skills are too powerful. You have to kill them before they use skills or else you are in the danger of depleting all your recovers before you can win. And the survivability can not just be measured by PMI and DM.

PMI IS the key problem.

If you can't survive, use more plates until you do. Simple as that.

But hey, if you expect your rag-a-tag gear list of powers and 1 plate can finish IWBTH IWs then I have nothing else to say to you. Keep living under that illusion.

Forget mage, shade should be rebalanced so it can go deep grindfest on IWBTH (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif) . We go slow on normal and can't go nearly as far heavy on high difficulty. It's clear that light needs the most buffing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) .

Inb4 Chosen tells me my problem is PMI and I have to use more kevlar (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) .

This post has been edited by T_Starrk: Mar 22 2013, 18:21

My gear isn't bad at all and I have given up to do IWBTH IW's since 0.74. Surely I could master it if I would shard my whole gear, but why should I do that? I rather do IW at BT difficulty and have more fun completing IW battles. When doing IW in max difficulty I have to cure and buff the monsters constantly. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Before 0.74 IW was no problem at all. Maybe it was too easy and that's why PMI and burden was altered...

I still use full power as I have spend millions of credits in that gear. I tried going full plate, but wasn't satisfied with the outcome as I lost too much damage. So I'm staying with what I'm used to and sometimes grind some profs with my mage gear. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My gear isn't bad at all and I have given up to do IWBTH IW's since 0.74. Surely I could master it if I would shard my whole gear, but why should I do that? I rather do IW at BT difficulty and have more fun completing IW battles. When doing IW in max difficulty I have to cure and buff the monsters constantly. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Before 0.74 IW was no problem at all. Maybe it was too easy and that's why PMI and burden was altered...

I still use full power as I have spend millions of credits in that gear. I tried going full plate, but wasn't satisfied with the outcome as I lost too much damage. So I'm staying with what I'm used to and sometimes grind some profs with my mage gear. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well you have to adapt in some way...

You tank better then you should lose damage. No way you should get both.

Forget mage, shade should be rebalanced so it can go deep grindfest on IWBTH (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif) . We go slow on normal and can't go nearly as far heavy on high difficulty. It's clear that light needs the most buffing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) .

Inb4 Chosen tells me my problem is PMI and I have to use more kevlar (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) .

Shade is fucked in so many ways (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
So yes, for now you definitely should get more kevlar.

With my set of mixed kevlar and shade, and DW, I have 48.9% parry, ~31% evade, 70% PMI. Not bad IMO.

Well you have to adapt in some way...

You tank better then you should lose damage. No way you should get both.

At the moment I'm satisfied with how it is. It might change after another patch. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I have nice heavy gear and try to improve it with better pieces. However during the past months I have put my credits in my trainings instead of in equipment. Sometimes I get nice drops but nothing which was useful too me. And to spend millions for Tier 1 gear don't seems logical to me. The right way is that power should be better than plate, or not? If not, why is power so rare and plate so common? If not,then cotton and leather should be buffed as well to become an low-priced option for mages or light users.

I always have to adapt after a patch like all the other players as well, or not? Seems that Tenboro has fun in forcing us to adapt to some sometimes confusing or bothersome changes, but that's life. I have resigned myself to try to stay calm and get used to changes before giving out a rash opinion about things I can't change anyway. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

PMI IS the key problem.

If you can't survive, use more plates until you do. Simple as that.

But hey, if you expect your rag-a-tag gear list of powers and 1 plate can finish IWBTH IWs then I have nothing else to say to you. Keep living under that illusion.

May be not?
Is your PMI mention about 80 exactly?
I have got 78+ something for PMI and I just go 130 rounds of GF under 80+ stamina.

So, time to say I have terrible damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
If yes, what you suggest for the damage when I get 78+ PMI?

This post has been edited by andywong: Mar 22 2013, 18:51

May be not?
If you PMI mention about 80 exactly?
I have got 78+ something for PMI and I just go 130 rounds of GF under 80+ stamina.

So, time to say I have terrible damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
If yes, what you suggest for the damage when I get 78+ PMI?

If you want to go far in IWBTH GF, you need more PMI.

I suggested 80 PMI for IWBTH IWs, which will be quite comfortable to clear.

As for IWBTH GFs, I think you'll need in the realms of 92-95% PMI. Very easy to accomplish with plates.

Probably will cost you about 30M credits total.

If you want to go far in IWBTH GF, you need more PMI.

I suggested 80 PMI for IWBTH IWs, which will be quite comfortable to clear.

As for IWBTH GFs, I think you'll need in the realms of 92-95% PMI. Very easy to accomplish with plates.

Probably will cost you about 30M credits total.

Errrrrrrrrrr............

PMI can over 80%!?
Oh my god, I just notice that......

I think my mind will all changed now.

T_Starrk: If you don't want to bring player market into it you still have to consider that bazaarprice for phazons is still 2.5x other mats.

fa怪叔叔: If the legendaries you talk about aren't better than exquisites don't call them legendaries.

As for Shielding prefix....Consider for a moment that your esteemed mag plate(only single piece of plate in a place where you need defense most, really?) has 14.86% base PMI, fitting snugly between exq max of 14.48 and 15.11 of mag max. Now cut, let's say not even 5(which they can indeed get), let's say just 2.5% off that number. 12.36%. That's over a % less than sup max. With mithril, it would cut off 4.06 burden, meaning some more evade and crit. Like with weapons, it is very hard to find a piece that can surpass lack of prefix. And even mag max pmi plates of protection have never cost so much to hold them up as esteemed against "30 mils in investment", so bringing one up is a bit silly.

As for prefix's effect on decreasing quality: There are already prefixes on weapons, starting at fine. Yet oh wonder of wonders I've yet to see an average ethereal. So I'm going to bunk this as a myth.

Your complaint is that you, while not maxed or having insane starting equips, have to not even go all out, just use a bit more effort(no, not even going all out) and defense when doing the hardest thing in the game that has a reachable goal? I'm not sure what do you expect.....You say you're using featherweights shards, but what about voidseeker ones? Aether ones? Infusions? Other scrolls? Focus spam for mana in early rounds to be able to cast cure in later ones.

No, regarding balance since speed is always brought up, I'm curious how fast do you do it(and with what ping)?

PS: A mage who spends ten times as much as you cannot do even less than half the difficulty IWs.

1st, I have to tell you that that MAG plate of protection is my loot. And I can tell you that to buy an LEG equipment is never a very good idea unless you are too rich: to upgrade such a gear to the LEG level is much cheaper than buy a LEG gear straight away. And to be honest, some time, you can't even found a LEG gear even if you had a lot of budget since there are not too many people want to sell them. My estoc is also an example of this: I used to have a LEG estoc but I have thought about it carefully and finally decided to sell that one for 900HATH and use that to keep upgrading my current estoc.

About prefix: the weapons seems like different from armors. However, for the armors, it is highly possible that the prefix of armors will take some roll points.

And believe me, with your levels goes up, the burden can not give you too much headache, especially after you are able to using power gear in fighting X25 areans.(usually happens when you reached LV330+).

I do use voidseekers, however, it does't make too much sense since my hit chance is high enough and it can not help monsters parry.

To ChosenUno:
Did you forget the patch 0.70-0.72? Back then, it is a shame for a melee player to wear a plate of protection after they hit LV300. A full power of protection can provide enough PMI,if you want, you can even use full of Power of slaughter and still, it gives enough PMI when you fight in X25 areans. And believe me, at that time I was able to IW a 170 gear without using any power up to my gears, scrolls, focus, ex potions or Illithid weapon and my estoc had only 100WD at that time. Look at now.............I get better gears, but, What I can say? Back to plate of protection.....Nooooooooooooooooooo.
And also, my problem is, after using protection scrolls, I guess my PMI more than enough to fight in X25 IW since when it is finished I have more than 6 potions left. However, without this, I feel myself get totally fucked after reach 120th rounds

Damn, I wish I could buy those 10m credit shielding greaves in danixxx's shop. I'm only about 9 million short, lol, it sucks to be poor (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .

If you want to go far in IWBTH GF, you need more PMI.

I suggested 80 PMI for IWBTH IWs, which will be quite comfortable to clear.

As for IWBTH GFs, I think you'll need in the realms of 92-95% PMI. Very easy to accomplish with plates.

Probably will cost you about 30M credits total.

How can you do that? I mean, more than 80% PMI

How can you do that? I mean, more than 80% PMI

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The forumla for primary stat contributions to Physical Mitigation and Magical Mitigation has changed, and is now 100 * (1 - (1200 / (1200 + STAT1 + STAT2 / 2)))), where STAT1 is end, and STAT2 is str for phys and wis for mag. Hard capped to 80, were you ever to get that high.

The hard cap of 80% only applies to PMI gained from stats, meaning Str and End.

As for the previous patches, Heavy melees had it way too easy. You could just load up pretty much any plate + an estoc and clear IWBTH anything. Not anymore, at least now you have to try and shit (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

This post has been edited by ChosenUno: Mar 22 2013, 19:39

1st, I have to tell you that that MAG plate of protection is my loot.

Irrelevant.

And I can tell you that to buy an LEG equipment is never a very good idea unless you are too rich: to upgrade such a gear to the LEG level is much cheaper than buy a LEG gear straight away. And to be honest, some time, you can't even found a LEG gear even if you had a lot of budget since there are not too many people want to sell them. My estoc is also an example of this: I used to have a LEG estoc but I have thought about it carefully and finally decided to sell that one for 900HATH and use that to keep upgrading my current estoc.

Or buy a leg plate of protection. Your choice. While it is true that it can be reasonably often to use lower quality equip with max rolls, it limits you and even more so for resale value.

About prefix: the weapons seems like different from armors. However, for the armors, it is highly possible that the prefix of armors will take some roll points.

Prove it with average prefixed armor.

And believe me, with your levels goes up, the burden can not give you too much headache, especially after you are able to using power gear in fighting X25 areans.(usually happens when you reached LV330+).

Reducing burden still gives not only crit but evade too.

I do use voidseekers, however, it does't make too much sense since my hit chance is high enough and it can not help monsters parry.

Monster evade was boosted recently.

To ChosenUno:
Did you forget the patch 0.70-0.72? Back then, it is a shame for a melee player to wear a plate of protection after they hit LV300. A full power of protection can provide enough PMI,if you want, you can even use full of Power of slaughter and still, it gives enough PMI when you fight in X25 areans. And believe me, at that time I was able to IW a 170 gear without using any power up to my gears, scrolls, focus, ex potions or Illithid weapon and my estoc had only 100WD at that time. Look at now.............I get better gears, but, What I can say? Back to plate of protection.....Nooooooooooooooooooo.

Mages used to be able to clear almost as many rounds of gf as they wanted, with 1 turn pern round, at difficulties higher than normal. Only Ichy complains that it was lost.

And also, my problem is, after using protection scrolls, I guess my PMI more than enough to fight in X25 IW since when it is finished I have more than 6 potions left. However, without this, I feel myself get totally fucked after reach 120th rounds

Use aethers too maybe?

Irrelevant. Or buy a leg plate of protection. Your choice. While it is true that it can be reasonably often to use lower quality equip with max rolls, it limits you and even more so for resale value.Prove it with average prefixed armor. Reducing burden still gives not only crit but evade too. Monster evade was boosted recently. Mages used to be able to clear almost as many rounds of gf as they wanted, with 1 turn pern round, at difficulties higher than normal. Only Ichy complains that it was lost. Use aethers too maybe?

1st, if it is my loot,which means it doesn't cost me anything. You think how much it will cost for something like this? My price will be around 500K. (look at the DM) I'd prefer to use that much to upgrade this one.

Buy LEG one? then you have to be lucky coz it is not always there. Plus you really think the price is reasonable? An LEG plate of protection, even if its PMI is just mag max level it still gonna cost you more than 2M. Now this one has 17.4% PMI, leg max is just 16.59% and it doesn't cost me that much.

resale? Why should I think about this?As long as you choice to do that, you have to forget about resale. Besides, if I sale that, what gear can I use?

about prefix: there's no prove, however, if you speak Chinese, you can come to Hentaiverse Bar and have an ask, I'm pretty sure there are too many people hold the same idea as me.

About Nerf: you think it is just that simple? You do not know how many melee players have already lose their ability to fight in X25 areans? And do you know how important to fight in X25 areans it is? Of course you don't know since your level is still low. If you reach more LV300+ you will found it is hopleless to LV UP if you do not fight in X25 areans. For manges players so they can fight more rounds in GF to cover that lose since the real life time consuming is much less than melee players especially the delay is more than 300MS( eg: China, Australia). What can melee players do? As far as I know, there are a lot of people in China left this game since 0.73 because they lost their hope. Their left is a lost of this game. Think about that, if those who left the game because of this reason still there, they might be the one who sale you some equipment you need.

ABOUT IW:
aethers doesn't help, I have tried....Only the scroll of protection helps. May be I should wear some more plate gears to delay the time of using scroll.

1st: If you prefer your loot, that's fine, but loot being sufficient for character is completely different part of balance.

As is players' market(though always not being there is true....it only holds for some time period, not forever). Also, that mag already uses high grades, leg may not do that - plus if you're buying a legendary plate you're going to have the money for forging it too probably.

Resale: Since you already reached level 100 damage that and reforging it for more butcher is the only options for better weapons(though I suppose one can now resalvage in addition to resale). That's why I mentioned this, and that is why I mentioned legendaries(though none of your armors are even halfway to maxed in forge).

Prefix: Proofs about numbers are given with math. If it is not certain, it is given with probabilities. I find it quite unlikely that if prefix could decrease quality of an armor we wouldn't have average armor with prefix drop by now, even more so than power with shielding prefix due how much more common fine plate is. Prefix used to increase equip's quality, but that's in the past. I don't visit HVbar that often though, sorry.

Nerf: Do you not know how many mages lost the ability to go deeper than 2000, no, even 500 rounds in grindfest? Yeah, I suppose lot of them don't play that much anymore.

Anyway, IWBTH arenas are a imho several times easier than IWBTH IWs, which you talked about. Plus again, highest difficulty mode.

People leaving due becoming weaker can happen, and can be bad. But so is people leaving because there aren't options, or new players joining/quiting soon. If there would never have been a single nerf(unintentional or not) to players, all mages and melees could oneshot mid-difficulty waves, and medium strength ones would oneshot IWBTH. All the time. The competition would be who can kill IWBTH FSM in least amount of turns, with kills in one spell being the method of choice to kill it.

You know, those sound like terrible nerfs. It sounds like a terrible nerf to go from IWBTH rewards times 8(?) to current rewards in several times the time. But that game doesn't sound particularly interesting, either. And 0.7 patches aren't even so huge as some past patches in changes to a build when you compare them, so you have time to adjust. At least people quitting upon hitting 200 has been fixed.

Ping: A major problem. This cannot be fixed. This should be accounted for, too.

As for IW.....I don't know what you're doing with cure/scroll/aether that you end up consuming more than twice the resources for lesser success. But you're still not trying your hardest for pretty much one of the hardest things in game, so where will you go from here in regards to character progression? The only quantifiable things harder than what you're doing would be doing the same thing with even less defensive armor/even faster/using less items. There's also gf, but I doubt average 10 maxing to 30 crystals per round will beat 10 potency exp per round, if you talk in terms of rewards. I understand that your complaint here is in regards to character progression slowdown and backpedaling, but what would be then right?

In the end, this convo got started by Chosen mentioning melees being able to go 600 rounds IWBTHfest. Which is correct for "nearing perfection melees". Is that the goal in character progression? Possibly, since you're already doing the hardest possible thing. But given how often mages are taken from the best ones with hundreds of forges(hito's staff already is nearing twice the forges of your estoc) it is only fair if similar tier melees are used in comparison - after all, he has spent several times more than you on his holy gear(and has same ping, btw) he shouldn't be compared to you but rather either to a weaker mage or similarly spent melee.{Also, the balance problem he mentioned doesn't account for the different time to do an iwbth round between mage and melee at all.}

As you showed to yourself, using plate makes things easier - I bet if you used enough plate you could just use cure since you'd have enough mana for just the later rounds.
(BTW, with your interference with power gear and cure's tend to overheal bringing a godly health pot or health elixir instead of a mana pot might be more efficient usage of an item slot).

PS: I understand the wish to do arenas to gather credits and equipment, but I don't understand what's with this desire to level up in level-scaling game (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by Lement: Mar 22 2013, 23:30