[X] My Assistant

I don't, actually. And the effort of upgrading one piece of equipment is probably too high right now. But the point still stands, that adding even tiny improvements to a gear type brings a whole lot of bawwing from people who suddenly has the Slightly Less Cool Doodit. (You should see some of the PMs I get.)

Actually I think the effort of leveling up the forge is too high, not the equipment leveling effort. Once you're a serious forger, more often than not you wait for your forge to level up, not wait for mats.

You should make a thread with all the "interesting" PMs in it for us to see (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

No. I never said you can't get new cool stuff. Just that Tenboro should allow us to upgrade our old stuff if he does or do like he did this patch and keep it small.

Alright, I am fine with that. Just please hurry with the new cool playthings, Tenboro, because 50 rounds of battletoads just for ONLY these Fair leather leggings of the spirit-ward seems rather underwhelming.

This post has been edited by Mindflayer88: Feb 28 2013, 12:24

Enter the whining masses that bitch about their equipment suddenly being obsolete, demanding that all improvements are made retroactive or that they should be refunded for their time and efforts. Then (threaten to) ragequit when I don't listen to them.

I don't care, by the way. You want to quit because your Awesome Doodit of Coolness in a very much unfinished game is slightly less cooler because a slightly cooler Doodit is now available, go right ahead. I sincerely hope you never acquire any Apple products.

I don't know, I guess I have a different take on the game

I've used the same gear for months and months, game wise it's almost as old as I am

So, I have to cast a few extra spells, as long as the monsters die and I get the experience points along
with completing the battle..... not a big deal

Your really don't have to keep up with Joneses and keep running a huge number of rounds with newest
or even the best stuff in the neighborhood

Sometimes, you make do with what you already have

Just a thought (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I've used the same gear for months and months, game wise it's almost as old as I am

Same here. Although I only do it because I prefer to find my own equipments but never find any good Fenrir phase armor (and I surely won't start shrining trophies for cloth armor to increase my chances, I don't want even more exquisite+ cotton).

I don't, actually. And the effort of upgrading one piece of equipment is probably too high right now.

I agree with this. The salvaging system isn't convincing enough for most players to spend effort upgrading their equips, except those who do get legendary equips. Also add in the frustration of new new equips having more/better ability/stats than the old ones.

Here's one alternative I'd like to suggest: how about a system where you can transfer the forges from one equip to another unforged equip, with either a flat loss of forge level or percentage lost, and/or with forging EXP loss?
So for example, with a staff with 20 forged MDB, it would be
- 10 flat level loss
- 25% level loss = 5 levels loss
with
- 20 * 5 = 100 forge EXP loss

This sounds more convincing as you can keep the previous effort with some (but not substantial) loss. It's a better system recycling forged equips, since players can actually see and calculate what they should do with old vs new equips, instead of salvaging, losing all the base materials while still fearing they don't get much back. Yea, calculation. The main point here.

1 7 You gain the effect Cloak of the Fallen.
1 6 Your Spark of Life restores you from the brink of defeat.
1 5 Need0213 hits you for 2124 crushing damage.
1 4 Medusa Gorgon hits you for 1617 crushing damage.
1 3 Ryuuzaki Tsubasa hits you for 2368 crushing damage.
1 2 You gain the effect Spark of Life.
1 1 You cast Spark of Life.
0 8 Spawned Monster G: MID=15273 (Tehanu) LV=170 HP=41910
0 7 Spawned Monster F: MID=27351 (Magic The Gandhi) LV=166 HP=73321
0 6 Spawned Monster E: MID=38185 (Medusa Gorgon) LV=168 HP=43280
0 5 Spawned Monster D: MID=3218 (Satsuki Yumizuka) LV=168 HP=75740
0 4 Spawned Monster C: MID=54832 (Ryuuzaki Tsubasa) LV=165 HP=92260
0 3 Spawned Monster B: MID=25822 (Ouzai Priest) LV=167 HP=37960
0 2 Spawned Monster A: MID=19284 (Need0213) LV=168 HP=87286
0 1 Initializing random encounter ...
0 0 Battle Start!

First round One-Shots anyone?
Wow, Spark is a must have now ^^, but when the RNG kicks some "0.01"s, would I be dead before I get the effect of Spark?!?

Same here. Although I only do it because I prefer to find my own equipments but never find any good Fenrir phase armor (and I surely won't start shrining trophies for cloth armor to increase my chances, I don't want even more exquisite+ cotton).

I hear you (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I have yet to see any Legendary, other than other user's pop-ups and even Magnificent are as rare as a
blue moon

Still using Phase of the Fox and a combination of Phase Elements, along with Betsy, my Ebony Staff
of Focus (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Wow, Spark is a must have now ^^, but when the RNG kicks some "0.01"s, would I be dead before I get the effect of Spark?!?

I could be wrong; but I don't think the system is built to allow the enemies to act before your first action. I suspect the entire speed system is more of a delay before you can act again, rather than how long it'll take before your action gets done.

Item leveling and/or forging is too high simply because there are too many levels - both should be scaled back considerably. People wouldn't have problems upgrading their equipment then since the risk vs. reward wouldn't be as high.

And for the record, I'm of the opinion that this game needs to be scaled back in all aspects, but that's just me.

I agree with this. The salvaging system isn't convincing enough for most players to spend effort upgrading their equips, except those who do get legendary equips. Also add in the frustration of new new equips having more/better ability/stats than the old ones.

Here's one alternative I'd like to suggest: how about a system where you can transfer the forges from one equip to another unforged equip, with either a flat loss of forge level or percentage lost, and/or with forging EXP loss?
So for example, with a staff with 20 forged MDB, it would be
- 10 flat level loss
- 25% level loss = 5 levels loss
with
- 20 * 5 = 100 forge EXP loss

This sounds more convincing as you can keep the previous effort with some (but not substantial) loss. It's a better system recycling forged equips, since players can actually see and calculate what they should do with old vs new equips, instead of salvaging, losing all the base materials while still fearing they don't get much back. Yea, calculation. The main point here.

I don't think that'll change much.

The effort (effort, not cost) to level up forge level far outweighs the effort needed to gather materials for forging up to max level.

And with the hint of having perks with maxed out forge level, I don't think anyone who's invested will use this system (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I agree with this. The salvaging system isn't convincing enough for most players to spend effort upgrading their equips, except those who do get legendary equips. Also add in the frustration of new new equips having more/better ability/stats than the old ones.

Here's one alternative I'd like to suggest: how about a system where you can transfer the forges from one equip to another unforged equip, with either a flat loss of forge level or percentage lost, and/or with forging EXP loss?
So for example, with a staff with 20 forged MDB, it would be
- 10 flat level loss
- 25% level loss = 5 levels loss
with
- 20 * 5 = 100 forge EXP loss

This sounds more convincing as you can keep the previous effort with some (but not substantial) loss. It's a better system recycling forged equips, since players can actually see and calculate what they should do with old vs new equips, instead of salvaging, losing all the base materials while still fearing they don't get much back. Yea, calculation. The main point here.

Another way would be to always return the bindings and the special materials (crystalized phasons, repurposed actuators etc) when you salvage a forged items, so you only lose the basic cloth/wood/metal/leather that you invested in it.

Does that seem like it can be exploited by people forging shitty armor and then salvaging it for the bindings and specials mats and only use up some low-grade metal?

Then simply change the formula for gaining forging experience, so that you gain exp based on how many mid-grade and high-grade materials you use for an upgrade.
And with diminishing returns, so once you get a fairly high experience in forging, only upgrades which use high-grade materials will give you forge xp.


Now it's no longer that big of a deal to salvage a highly upgraded piece of equipment, all you really lose is the mid- and high-grade materials you invested, which are easier to get back than the other stuff.
And you'll make some more forging xp when fixing up your new gear.

Another way would be to always return the bindings and the special materials (crystalized phasons, repurposed actuators etc) when you salvage a forged items, so you only lose the basic cloth/wood/metal/leather that you invested in it.

Does that seem like it can be exploited by people forging shitty armor and then salvaging it for the bindings and specials mats and only use up some low-grade metal?

Then simply change the formula for gaining forging experience, so that you gain exp based on how many mid-grade and high-grade materials you use for an upgrade.
And with diminishing returns, so once you get a fairly high experience in forging, only upgrades which use high-grade materials will give you forge xp.
Now it's no longer that big of a deal to salvage a highly upgraded piece of equipment, all you really lose is the mid- and high-grade materials you invested, which are easier to get back than the other stuff.
And you'll make some more forging xp when fixing up your new gear.

That'll just drive cost for forging way up (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I don't think that'll change much.

The effort (effort, not cost) to level up forge level far outweighs the effort needed to gather materials for forging up to max level.

And with the hint of having perks with maxed out forge level, I don't think anyone who's invested will use this system (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

It's for those who are not that devoted to HV. One of the things I've observed is that many players are reluctant to forge their equips, fearing that they're going to find a better one or their equip becoming less worthy.This forms a huge gap in terms of forging effort between players who are going to sell the mats to devoted instead of using on their own equips, and devoted who are using the mats to upgrade their premium equips.

@Randommember
Salvaging isn't working in the way people want to. The high-grade materials quickly become a burden for casual players. The forging system should be a continual process for players when they level up; it shouldn't be a process which you need to reach a certain level in order to have the resources to even consider forging.

The Salvaging system, I think would used more often if there were a window stating this is you would
receive with an okay to salvage button

It is a little frustrating to salvage a Superior item or better, only to receive nothing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

When you could have gotten a few credits for it at the bazaar (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

It's for those who are not that devoted to HV. One of the things I've observed is that many players are reluctant to forge their equips, fearing that they're going to find a better one or their equip becoming less worthy.This forms a huge gap in terms of forging effort between players who are going to sell the mats to devoted instead of using on their own equips, and devoted who are using the mats to upgrade their premium equips.

Exactly. Why should I upgrade some "Fine XYZ of ABC"... The single Legendary I have is useless now (for me), and why forge something on things, that do not sell than for more than a few shameful credits? If I had something /worth/ forging, maybe I would have some forge XP. I do have none. Why? I don't have any Shade fragment. I do have some bindings, ok, but those I'd like to have (Racoon, Slaughter, Balance, Fleet) i do not posses. Prices for good (named USEFUL) bindings like Slaughter did skyrocket, didn't they? And paying 5 Hath for one is a bit too costly for me.The market will not cool down, since now there is new Plate to forge for high level players... Those new plate with "of Slaughter" suffix still is tempting, heh?
So forging sounds like "Get yer monsters something to grow, wait some weeks and check them daily" (lousy btw, they could bring it by themselves, when they have it!!!)

When I look on the level of players even mentioning forging... we have them settled well above 250. So why even bothering with forging /now/ at level 171 with 3 monsters (101, 49, 30) ?!?

When you could have gotten a few credits for it at the bazaar (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Hmm… maybe make salvaging return some fraction of the credits you could’ve gotten for selling it to the bazaar if you don’t actually get any materials?

If Tenboro does intend to remove agilty altogether then should we move our experience points from AGI now or will they be returned when the removal is implemented? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Don't ask for refunds. Ever.

I'm not asking for a refund. However, if one is not planned then players need to start moving the points from their primary attributes now. As you can only move them at a rate of about ten a day, and with around five to six weeks between updates, players really need to start moving them now to avoid excessive bawwing when the change is implemented.
For future reference note that if somebody is asking for something, it is usually prefaced by 'Can I/we have...'.

This post has been edited by ohmightycat: Feb 28 2013, 15:13

So forging sounds like "Get yer monsters something to grow, wait some weeks and check them daily" (lousy btw, they could bring it by themselves, when they have it!!!)

Dude, you have misunderstood me. It's good to encourage people to give their crystals to monsters, so to get more forging materials. Or to pay for that.
What is bad now is that the system's unfavorable when you have some ex/mag equips. Instead of spending the mats on decent (but not excellent) equips, players tend to sell them so they can save money to buy the truly excellent equips. So there's a gap between 'unforged decent equip' and 'forged excellent equip'.

This post has been edited by varst: Feb 28 2013, 15:14

It's for those who are not that devoted to HV. One of the things I've observed is that many players are reluctant to forge their equips, fearing that they're going to find a better one or their equip becoming less worthy.This forms a huge gap in terms of forging effort between players who are going to sell the mats to devoted instead of using on their own equips, and devoted who are using the mats to upgrade their premium equips.

@Randommember
Salvaging isn't working in the way people want to. The high-grade materials quickly become a burden for casual players. The forging system should be a continual process for players when they level up; it shouldn't be a process which you need to reach a certain level in order to have the resources to even consider forging.

What's the point of being "devoted player" then?
Forging is the only way that a player could improve equip problem without luck.
Everyone will eventually get Mag/Legs, however Leg != useful, and useful Leg != useful Leg to the owner.

I'm afraid that you suggestion will damage moderately-devoted players most.

This post has been edited by HTTP/308: Feb 28 2013, 15:38

Dude, you have misunderstood me. It's good to encourage people to give their crystals to monsters, so to get more forging materials. Or to pay for that.
What is bad now is that the system's unfavorable when you have some ex/mag equips. Instead of spending the mats on decent (but not excellent) equips, players tend to sell them so they can save money to buy the truly excellent equips. So there's a gap between 'unforged decent equip' and 'forged excellent equip'.

Because forging is essentially a void.

You forge something and once you grow out of it, you pretty much lose all your mats.

So why would you embark on such an endeavor as forging when you're pretty much gonna lose?

It's way better to save up your mats or sell it to get that 1 item you know you won't be replacing like EVER.