[X] My Assistant

2x stack is equivalent to the old ET. It's basically twice the effort (or more depending on RNG), for the old reward. It's not "pretty nice".
Nothing for me, seriously.

2x Stack gets me what Elementals used to give, with one more turn. It is a helluva lot more effort to get though (usually more than it's worth), and involves the traditional mage risk of horrible death (required with every action). My comment on ET was definitely mellowed in the editing (I believe my initial version called new ET 1.0 Public Beta "A slap across the face").

I'd probably be more pissed if I'd been using a 3 turn stick before the changes (my Nif staff was 2 turn), since turn 4 means less than turn 3 does (mine gets turn 4 at 260 now). But I'm an Elemental mage. I'm used to getting it without lube every third patch, usually as fallout from nerfs to maging in general (read: Holy/Dark), and if Tenboro doesn't, the monster lab trainers step up to the plate and oblige with some new terror for me. Getting it as fallout from a Heavy melee nerf is a new experience entirely.

As a Holy Mage, I don't care about those Redwood/Ebony changes.
Curative prof change means nothing, I've always had maxed profs in both Supportive and Curative anyway.
And Counter-Resist is a huge joke (ask any serious high-level mage here).
Can you point out how you compensated mages for the Aether shard nerf + ET nerf + PMI nerf?

Let me guess: "But Sleeping targets can no longer evade, parry or resist attacks, that's a buff!!" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Counter Resist is indeed a joke assuming it's multiplicative same as the CR from Focus (also a joke). I think just about every mage who runs Nightmare+ regularly knows that Focus is asking for death. Jacking CR to something like 25% would make it a lot more appealing.
I think the intended 'compensation' for our lost mitigation was that monster MMI is down too. Pity we don't have any better way to get survivability now that pumping END is nerfed. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Shard drop rates might be up as well (can't tell, the fact that Slobber pulled his Infusions from the store to see if they are old Infusion or Shard drop rates says plenty about the ambiguity in that particular patch note).

Except that you pretty much nerfed almost all the playstyles hard, with only a few micro-"buffs" just to say it wasn't a 100% nerf patch.

Kinda did, and I suspect half the nerfs weren't intentional (which does not make me feel any better). Especially in 0.73.0. The Obvious Rule Patch to rescue Mace from the dumpster (Rending Blow fix) certainly didn't help the perception that it wasn't fully baked. I do expect to see a round of various small buffs in 0.74 (particularly expect to see minor Kevlar buffs, since it got whacked by the same stick as Heavy and really didn't deserve it).

what the (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
but that probaly a very good change for lowbies, since lv.250 magnet need huge time to unlock (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Only style that makes use of Sleep is 1H and DW. Mages tend to ignore it since we wake up mobs with AoEs anyway, and better to just kill the thing than Sleep it.

This post has been edited by PK678353: Jan 31 2013, 14:46

2x Stack gets me what Elementals used to give, with one more turn. It is a helluva lot more effort to get though (usually more than it's worth), and involves the traditional mage risk of horrible death (required with every action). My comment on ET was definitely mellowed in the editing (I believe my initial version called new ET 1.0 Public Beta "A slap across the face").

I'd probably be more pissed if I'd been using a 3 turn stick before the changes (my Nif staff was 2 turn), since turn 4 means less than turn 3 does (mine gets turn 4 at 260 now). But I'm an Elemental mage. I'm used to getting it without lube every third patch, usually as fallout from nerfs to Holy/Dark (getting it as fallout from a Heavy melee nerf is a new experience entirely).
Counter Resist is indeed a joke assuming it's multiplicative same as the CR from Focus (also a joke). I think just about every mage who runs Nightmare+ regularly knows that Focus is asking for death. Jacking CR to something like 25% would make it a lot more appealing.
I think the intended 'compensation' for our lost mitigation was that monster MMI is down too. Pity we don't have any better way to get survivability now that pumping END is nerfed. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Shard drop rates might be up as well (can't tell, the fact that Slobber pulled his Infusions from the store to see if they are old Infusion or Shard drop rates says plenty about the ambiguity in that particular patch note).
Kinda did, and I suspect half the nerfs weren't intentional (which does not make me feel any better). Especially in 0.73.0. The Obvious Rule Patch to rescue Mace from the dumpster (Rending Blow fix) certainly didn't help the perception that it wasn't fully baked. I do expect to see a round of various small buffs in 0.74 (particularly expect to see minor Kevlar buffs, since it got whacked by the same stick as Heavy and really didn't deserve it).
Only style that makes use of Sleep is 1H and DW. Mages tend to ignore it since we wake up mobs with AoEs anyway, and better to just kill the thing than Sleep it.

i think it is even narrower, maybe only dw with light armor can utilize it well, but since the way dw beat IWBTH is sleep all other then concentrate on one mob, i think i may just got a wrong conclusion, sleep's anti parry/resist probaly does nothing in this change

Only style that makes use of Sleep is 1H and DW.

I had actually almost stopped using sleep before this patch. Now I have to use it frequently during arena because of the PMI loss. Anytime there's 3 or more PL 1000+ mobs I find if I don't put at least one or two asleep I end up suffering massive spirit loss (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .

People never consider a patch as a whole. If there is something that disadvantages them in any way, they will hone in on that and that alone, completely disregarding any "compensation". Trust me on that one.

(IMG:[www.hornfactory.co.uk] http://www.hornfactory.co.uk/resources/sigs/Duh1.png)

"The exact style and equipment composition I use didn't receive any specific buffs that affected me and only me" != "no benefit". Stop whining.

Honestly I don't understand you sometimes. When your change lowers the killspeed for the most popular melee style by a lot you have to except a lot of whining no matter what cookies you throw at us.
The PMI change happened in the same patch so we kill slower and take more damage. Sure every melee will whine. No fun to take longer for everything without any increased gain.

Also HTTP is right. Shade suffered again in this patch but was already pretty bad before. Maybe a change to the evade Formula could help them and mages as well. Shadowdancer could also get a bonus to decrease monsters anti-evade to make Shade even cooler. There would be many ways to make it cool again.

Not saying everything in this patch is bad. Additional Elemental Strike and the change to Infusions are pretty awesome but still can't cover up what people have lost.
Also I love the change to Shards cause I was always thinking those things should not be perma used. Now people have at least to buy more if they want to.
New ET is also a nice change but needs fine tuning. Either more turns of ET or just a prof Bonus.

The best change was pretty much Bleeding Damage but it needs more fine tuning. It should go much higher and PA should also add a little more so the loss in killspeed is not that gigantic.
Also can we have the outermost 0.2x damage strike for Two-Handed back? It is needed to stack up Bleed or PA on reasonable speed.
Note that the melee skill only adds -33% physical mitigation now instead of -100% so the increased bleed damage only manages to cover up the loss.

tl;dr if you make us slower we will whine (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by Ichy: Jan 31 2013, 17:05

The change to Featherweight was partially to differentiate light and heavy again. But light armor is still underutilized especially at higher levels, so it might get something more somewhere down the time.

Shadowdancer could also get a bonus to decrease monsters anti-evade to make Shade even cooler.

anti-anti-evade? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) . But yeah, I fully support a change to the evade formula to help shade (and mages (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). These styles need some help with damage reduction, imo.

anti-anti-evade? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) . But yeah, I fully support a change to the evade formula to help shade (and mages (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). These styles need some help with damage reduction, imo.

Sure why not? Shadowdancer is pretty rare so it should be awesome. It also eats rare mats to upgrade.

One reason why Plate is so popular is because it is easy to upgrade while so strong. Why would someone bother to get magnificent+ Shade or rare heavy and upgrade them when some Superior Plate will do the job... better? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

At first I was like: Did I just do riddlemaster twice in the same low level (30 round) arena?

Then I realized that I'm not the only one getting second round riddlemaster.

Not that I mind really, that is a change I can live with for arenas since it regenerates all the mp I use for my initial buffs. Edit: it seems it doesn't regen mp/hp?

Though if the code does now allow for multiple riddlemasters... it would suck for Grindfest.

This post has been edited by MikukoAya: Jan 31 2013, 18:38

OK, if the Riddlemaster after 2nd round Arena is not a bug, please REMOVE it. Or, allow it to restore HP/MP - and in fact, all Riddlemaster challenges should restore SP as well.

Yeah like this (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

huh I encountered no Riddlemaster at round 2 of Arenas a hour ago. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

The change to Featherweight was partially to differentiate light and heavy again. But light armor is still underutilized especially at higher levels, so it might get something more somewhere down the time.

A good move.
But I somewhat feel uneasy to see 0 burden Power vs. 10.5 burden Shade with the same weapon (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) It could literally be "Counter-Anti-Evade" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
(I'd be happy if it _effectively_ happen in the future)

huh I encountered no Riddlemaster at round 2 of Arenas a hour ago. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Almost 6 hours ago for me (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

At first, I thought I might have entered Grinfest instead of a arena battle (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Oh well, now there just like IW and Grindfest, not that big a deal (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Almost 6 hours ago for me (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

At first, I thought I might have entered Grinfest instead of a arena battle (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Oh well, now there just like IW and Grindfest, not that big a deal (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Could be pretty annoying since I quickspam some of them early in the morning before I go to work. This means increased chance to fuck up maze (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


But probably is needed because Botters (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

You know, I don't think I complained much (I assume I did complain a little) from the last patch even though it wasn't exactly good for me. Simply because of good vs bad. There was enough good to counter the bad.


I'm sure some of the nerfs in this patch were not intended (intended as a buff?), but... Simply in regards to ET...

I mean, honestly, ET is not worth it as it is right now compared to before even with the changes. If it was double duration instead of +1 duration, that would've been fine. As I said before, it takes about 3 turns to get the one turn 1st level regeneration back to normal. The thing is that if you think about it, what does that mean?

before: 2 turns to regen about 50 mp. Now, 4-6 (5.4 at about the same level) turns. Ok, so we get 3 turns now... we can do another ET, but wait... If we had done another ET before, we would've gained even more MP...
So let us assume 100 mp in 8 turns (2 to proc and proc, 2 regeneration, twice). Now, let us assume 3 turns of 9 mp regen (at about the same level) and then another 3 turns of 18 mp regen. 27+54=81 in 10 turns (2 to proc and proc, 3 regeneration, twice). To be fair though, let us remove the second set of proc and proc for 8 turns also (though really, 9 turns would be more accurate since you have to melee and for a pure mage, that will do less damage). Sure, this can be better if you can keep proc'ing ET, but if you can't... (You need to proc CM and then proc ET off of that and at that point you really are more of a melee than a mage).

That is why I say double the duration instead of simply doing +1.

There were of course other stuff that I'm sure was intended completely as a buff or balancing but ended up not really doing as such.


I wonder if tenboro would mind if I made a script to show the answer to the riddlemasters... Either the pony name or the exit letter...


Also, in seriousness, multiple riddlemasters in arenas is fine if they give the regen, but if they don't... It just kinda is annoying. So confusing to finish a rm in record time and then not see regen and think you failed until you look more closely.

This post has been edited by MikukoAya: Jan 31 2013, 19:48

But I somewhat feel uneasy to see 0 burden Power vs. 10.5 burden Shade with the same weapon (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Well, you do have to be fairly high level to manage that. Chances are I'll be changing the burden modifier for heavy proficiency to something else, but that will likely entail other adjustments to burden as well.

Well, you do have to be fairly high level to manage that. Chances are I'll be changing the burden modifier for heavy proficiency to something else, but that will likely entail other adjustments to burden as well.

Yes, you could make burden have worse consequences. That would certainly make shade more appealing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) .

or buff shade instead of nerfing the other until it looks appealing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Nits: With the mitigation change, I'm afraid melee armors other than Plate aren't quite worth forging.
Maybe some small tweaks to make it more appealing? (and make plate less overwhelming over its T2/T3) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)