[X] My Assistant

Yeah, Uno, looks like you're taking a beating here.

But fair's fair; it will take many of us (including myself) a great deal of time before we can do the kinds of things you've done to your equipment.

Having said that...

1. On any other difficulty other than IWBTH, at my level, the game is still playable and it is (within error) roughly as mindless (as a melee). I bottomed out all my pots, but still finished T&T on BT with a comfortable margin of HP/MP/SP. So I think on balance, it's not the-end-of-the-world bad.

2. On IWBTH, it's a fair amount harder. One factor is that 5012st (and whoever else is near there) is back in my mob list (where they would not be on BT), and they hit hard. I've kinda forgotten what it was like to have them around. Good training for when I go up a few levels and have to meet them at lower difficulties.

3. Losing the elemental mitigations (especially Elec) really hurt, and I didn't think it would. But, well, 72c and Magic the Gandhi, not to mention all the damned Sprites, have taught me otherwise. I will have to buy Ability Boosts to get them back. Oh well, at least I'll be ready to switch to mage afterwards.

4. Compared to mages, I happen to think Heavy armour users spend *much* more time Curing pre-patch. Mages pretty much rely on OHKO everything on the field, right? Because at higher rounds, if you let even one monster alive, he's gonna get you. So, I'm guessing you cure only after you spark, more or less. I would imagine a typical Cure scenario is something like Banish -> Mob hits you hard -> Spark -> Cure -> Ragnarok -> Next round. The fact that Heavy users can survive (since we're running SS on top of everything else) means we're curing pretty much after 2-3 mobs hit us hard. For us, it's something like Melee -> Mobs hit us hard -> HP near 20% zone -> Cure -> Mobs hit us with specials -> HP near 10% zone ->Cure -> Melee -> Mobs parry and hit us hard -> Spark -> Cure -> SS -> Great Cleave -> Rending Blow -> Next round. Now, with this new patch, it will be even more of the same. And now, each Cure costs more than it used to.

Whereas I thought the whole idea of Heavy (+ SS) was to be able to tank the hits, let Regen II take care of it, and just go on, under normal circumstances. Right now, that is not as feasible as it was in the past - I'm relying on avoidance as much as the mobs are, so that I *don't* take the hit in the first place.

Looks like I'll have to Forge my armours in order to have a real chance at IWBTH at higher levels.

0.73.1


- Ability points from the Aura Slot upgrades can now be reset.

I'm not showing the Aura Slot ability points on my ability tree (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Do we just reset and the three extra ability points are just there?

4. Compared to mages, I happen to think Heavy armour users spend *much* more time Curing pre-patch. Mages pretty much rely on OHKO everything on the field, right? Because at higher rounds, if you let even one monster alive, he's gonna get you. So, I'm guessing you cure only after you spark, more or less. I would imagine a typical Cure scenario is something like Banish -> Mob hits you hard -> Spark -> Cure -> Ragnarok -> Next round. The fact that Heavy users can survive (since we're running SS on top of everything else) means we're curing pretty much after 2-3 mobs hit us hard. For us, it's something like Melee -> Mobs hit us hard -> HP near 20% zone -> Cure -> Mobs hit us with specials -> HP near 10% zone ->Cure -> Melee -> Mobs parry and hit us hard -> Spark -> Cure -> SS -> Great Cleave -> Rending Blow -> Next round. Now, with this new patch, it will be even more of the same. And now, each Cure costs more than it used to.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yeah, something tells me you haven't maged on a serious difficulty since before monster lab. It's actually far more like your melee scenario. OHKO the round hasn't existed since Chaos Upgrades except for the most insanely upgraded mages (we're going for most of it down first cast, and down to a few stragglers with the followup, but the RNG makes that fail often enough). I'll bet ChosenUno isn't going to one-shot Celestia Lindwurm on BT with Banish even with that setup. I've got the feeling there's a few Mechs that get cursed at occasionally too.

This post has been edited by PK678353: Jan 21 2013, 15:17

Yeah, Uno, looks like you're taking a beating here.

But fair's fair; it will take many of us (including myself) a great deal of time before we can do the kinds of things you've done to your equipment.

Having said that...

1. On any other difficulty other than IWBTH, at my level, the game is still playable and it is (within error) roughly as mindless (as a melee). I bottomed out all my pots, but still finished T&T on BT with a comfortable margin of HP/MP/SP. So I think on balance, it's not the-end-of-the-world bad.

2. On IWBTH, it's a fair amount harder. One factor is that 5012st (and whoever else is near there) is back in my mob list (where they would not be on BT), and they hit hard. I've kinda forgotten what it was like to have them around. Good training for when I go up a few levels and have to meet them at lower difficulties.

3. Losing the elemental mitigations (especially Elec) really hurt, and I didn't think it would. But, well, 72c and Magic the Gandhi, not to mention all the damned Sprites, have taught me otherwise. I will have to buy Ability Boosts to get them back. Oh well, at least I'll be ready to switch to mage afterwards.

4. Compared to mages, I happen to think Heavy armour users spend *much* more time Curing pre-patch. Mages pretty much rely on OHKO everything on the field, right? Because at higher rounds, if you let even one monster alive, he's gonna get you. So, I'm guessing you cure only after you spark, more or less. I would imagine a typical Cure scenario is something like Banish -> Mob hits you hard -> Spark -> Cure -> Ragnarok -> Next round. The fact that Heavy users can survive (since we're running SS on top of everything else) means we're curing pretty much after 2-3 mobs hit us hard. For us, it's something like Melee -> Mobs hit us hard -> HP near 20% zone -> Cure -> Mobs hit us with specials -> HP near 10% zone ->Cure -> Melee -> Mobs parry and hit us hard -> Spark -> Cure -> SS -> Great Cleave -> Rending Blow -> Next round. Now, with this new patch, it will be even more of the same. And now, each Cure costs more than it used to.

Whereas I thought the whole idea of Heavy (+ SS) was to be able to tank the hits, let Regen II take care of it, and just go on, under normal circumstances. Right now, that is not as feasible as it was in the past - I'm relying on avoidance as much as the mobs are, so that I *don't* take the hit in the first place.

Looks like I'll have to Forge my armours in order to have a real chance at IWBTH at higher levels.

Before this patch if you were a heavy user and you needed Spirit Shield something's wrong with you (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Pre-patch I ran with Haste protection and spark, that's it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yeah, something tells me you haven't maged on a serious difficulty since before monster lab. It's actually far more like your melee scenario. OHKO the round hasn't existed since Chaos Upgrades except for the most insanely upgraded mages (we're going for most of it down first cast, and down to a few stragglers with the followup, but the RNG makes that fail often enough). I'll bet ChosenUno isn't going to one-shot Celestia Lindwurm on BT with Banish even with that setup. I've got the feeling there's a few Mechs that get cursed at occasionally too.

Fuck that, I can't even OHKO Celestia or Raging Hardon on Normal (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

On anything above nightmare, I have to magnet AND imperil those bitches (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Before this patch if you were a heavy user and you needed Spirit Shield something's wrong with you (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Pre-patch I ran with Haste protection and spark, that's it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Dude. Look at my level. Then look at your level. Pre-patch, I had all of 67% PMI. With your Heavy gear, you probably had ~80%. I have ONE Magni; the rest are Exquisites. You have to figure that I'm a skinflinted tightwad who hates spending credits on anything other than galleries. And even that seems to have become rather expensive these days.

Fuck that, I can't even OHKO Celestia or Raging Hardon on Normal (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

On anything above nightmare, I have to magnet AND imperil those bitches (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Yeah, well, I hear ya, 'cause it's not as if melee players have it easy with them either. I shudder to think what Labv2 is gonna be like...

Before this patch if you were a heavy user and you needed Spirit Shield something's wrong with you (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Pre-patch I ran with Haste protection and spark, that's it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

And how exactly is spark that different from SS? As for preventing a oneshot from a Lindwurm spirit attack or similar I'd rather take the 20% sp dent than the 50% sp blow from spark. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And how exactly is spark that different from SS? As for preventing a oneshot from a Lindwurm spirit attack or similar I'd rather take the 20% sp dent than the 50% sp blow from spark. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Sp shield is death by knife cuts. The chance of you getting sparked is close to 0 pre-patch, if you have the right amount of PMI. So SP shield actually wastes a lot of SP.

Meanwhile you'll get dented with your SP shield very very often.

This post has been edited by ChosenUno: Jan 21 2013, 16:59

That would be the best thing ever... it ain't happening.

I can only hope it will happen... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

In theory, we'll need to have multiple monsters with CM on in order to even have chance for ET to stack. And with the CM limit per spell (as far as I remember it's one CM per spell?) that's just impossible.

Then why the fuck did multiple people whine about not being able to run ET on more than one monster at a time anymore if that wasn't actually the problem?

If he had left ET the way it was, but make it tick on OUR turn, that's already enough (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

That's not even possible. And I had no intention of buffing ET, only to make it less annoying to deal with.

Not to mention that every mob is raping you while you try. I don't care if Tenb wanted to make a change to ET, that's fine and it's not like it hasn't happened before, but this one as it is currently is a mistake.

How is that different from how it was, exactly?

Then why the fuck did multiple people whine about not being able to run ET on more than one monster at a time anymore if that wasn't actually the problem?
That's not even possible. And I had no intention of buffing ET, only to make it less annoying to deal with.
How is that different from how it was, exactly?

People are complaining because they're getting less per "tick" and up until a certain level, monsters will move the same speed as you so instead of having 3 ticks per turn now you're limited to 2 a turn, with half the mana income. I think that's what they're getting at.

Well, then how about this:

Changing Arcane blow to use 100% of our magic damage and make it a magical damage type, thereby using magic hit chance and resist instead of physical hit chance and parry.

Is that too much to ask?

This post has been edited by ChosenUno: Jan 21 2013, 17:27

(IMG:[s8.postimage.org] http://s8.postimage.org/pnr221lqd/news_Still007.jpg)

This post has been edited by FLCLocust: Jan 21 2013, 17:31

Game play wise it was a good change because I can proc ET and move on.

But the amount was lowered (for higher level guys) so I can't really move on if I want to actually get mana back. ET gives me 27 Points while a spell costs me the double or more depending on tier so I have to stand by and use MM or still whack them with my stick (or focus if not deep inside GF and lower difficulty setting)

Also it IS a problem to not get multi stack. It was a common Strategy in Schoolgirl marathons. People who did not do so did it wrong (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Once again, you have equipment and stats that the vast majority of players do not have.

Parry is a non-issue for melees. So is evade. You're able to soak up the hits and your positive mana regen usually is enough to make up for the damage taken.

Please find more than 10 other med-high level melee users who don't have quite your high level and upgraded equipment and agree with this with the new adjustments. In my experience, from this patch, the strong mobs use evade and parry effectively enough that this is certainly not a non-issue, and is now a minor one to a major one.

A few weeks ago I took this build and went on IWBTH arenas.

Thanks. At least now this will save me time from responding to out of date claims.

And no, you did not say melee's impossible. However, you were pretty adamant about how everything except estoc were ruined and now estoc is nerfed to the ground, which is certainly NOT the case.

Thank you for correcting yourself. And I stand by my experiences, and I have great to excellent equipment that many more players will have and use. And yes, 2H is badly broken. When you have 5 weapons in a playing style and 4 of them are underpowered to the 5th and then the 5th is reduced in power, that is broken. And I say this with the understanding that I have not tried Scythe, but have tried K in both 2H and Niten, with lackluster results.

- JC

Then why the fuck did multiple people whine about not being able to run ET on more than one monster at a time anymore if that wasn't actually the problem?

The MAIN problem is that you halved the MP gain. Give back the old MP gain rate and the whining will stop, guaranteed.

edit: Also, don't listen to low-level noobs about balancing.

How is that different from how it was, exactly?

The difference is that ET before was worth risking an assrape to get some mana. Now you get no mana and still get assraped.

This post has been edited by Rei-Tenshi: Jan 21 2013, 17:31

0.73.1

- Skyward Sword, Vital Strike and Rending Blow now all inflict a maxed stack of their respective procs.

- Ether Tap can now stack twice, and can now also re-proc while you have it.

- Ability points from the Aura Slot upgrades can now be reset.

- Reduced time per infusion for weapon enchantments to 15 minutes. As before, you can stack multiple enchantments to increase the time for longer battles.

Time to do endless clicking (Ability points). As for the rest, I'm going to give this a full go after dawn to get some real world experience with these changes before I respond on them.

- JC

Once again, you have equipment and stats that the vast majority of players do not have.
Please find more than 10 other med-high level melee users who don't have quite your high level and upgraded equipment and agree with this with the new adjustments. In my experience, from this patch, the strong mobs use evade and parry effectively enough that this is certainly not a non-issue, and is now a minor one to a major one.
Thanks. At least now this will save me time from responding to out of date claims.
Thank you for correcting yourself. And I stand by my experiences, and I have great to excellent equipment that many more players will have and use. And yes, 2H is badly broken. When you have 5 weapons in a playing style and 4 of them are underpowered to the 5th and then the 5th is reduced in power, that is broken. And I say this with the understanding that I have not tried Scythe, but have tried K in both 2H and Niten, with lackluster results.

- JC

The reason I mentioned the outdated stuff is because I was using it as an argument to why melees should be nerfed like they are now.

In addition, your requirements of finding other users who don't agree with the patch is extremely biased, as people tend to have negative and disagreeable attitudes towards a change that negatively affects them and forces them to adapt. Therefore, you're pretty much asking me the impossible.

You should try scythe out, it's not as underpowered as it once was. It is probably 80-90% of estoc now, which is okay, but still it should be a lot higher. Though I think once you start to forge scythes they go off much faster than estocs do.

Then why the fuck did multiple people whine about not being able to run ET on more than one monster at a time anymore if that wasn't actually the problem?

Obviously because mages are whiny bitches. And they're also gay. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

The MAIN problem is that you halved the MP gain. Give back the old MP gain rate and the whining will stop, guaranteed.

Whining is endless, it'll just find another reason.

The difference is that ET before was worth risking an assrape to get some mana. Now you get no mana and still get assraped.

Oh come on, I know you mages mages enjoy assrape. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Obviously because mages are whiny bitches. And they're also gay. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Whining is endless, it'll just find another reason.
Oh come on, I know you mages mages enjoy assrape. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Nah, I usually let the small fuckups slip by.
When you see me whining, you know the fuckup this time is huge.


Also melee people are gay for mages. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

Now elemental-resist armor means something for beginner or Ring of Blood I guess.I appreciate the effort to make every kind of equips have it`s job.
Testing scythe of the Illithid in long journey but I`m not strong enough.
Does anyone want to see the Vampire siphon a little more HP to catch up patches (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) ?