[X] My Assistant

The whole point of Slaughter Power is to do more damage while maintaining a decent defense and a high magic consumption. Now the 1st two are worse without any offset on the 3rd. And yes I found Exquisite and above IWBTH IW to be either too unbalanced or too tedious. And I assume Exquisite, Mag, and a little bit of Legendary is considered to be in your "sucks balls" category.
I did mention Shield heavy. Please review my post for details. And I play as both Mage and Melee depending. Also indicated by the post.
Having only 1 out of 5 2H weapons that is effective is OP in your book? Longsword and Scythe were abandoned long ago due to bleed nerf (although some have said it's a little better now), Mace was essentially ruined (just ask Bunko if he ever returns), and Katana and Niten doesn't even get full benefits for the trade-off. That left Estoc as the only really effective 2H option. Which is now nerfed. Perhaps you'd like to share your best melee Estoc build with us?
Well, let's see your equipment. And see what you have for Hath perks as well.

- JC

Well, per previous patch Skillchip did some experimentation and found out that fully forged dark mages can only do 1.56x more damage than power slaughter worst case, while getting hit for at least 4x the amount.

As for your definition of Power Slaughter, no that's not how it is. I haven't seen Tenboro making a definite statement on how Power Slaughter should be, so whatever you think it is is your opinion.

And yes, estoc is OP. You don't think that a weapon that has a proc that bypasses EVERY SINGLE DEFENSE a monster has is not OP? That's what a voided estoc with PA is.

And no, maces is not ruined. It works well, slow and safe. Doesn't mean it doesn't work. Same with scythe. It's slow(er), but it still does its job well.

Now you actually have to make decisions about trade-offs as a melee and you're complaining that it's impossible already? I think that the decision is actually very simple. If you're dying, wear more plate. If you're still dying wearing full plate, buy new plates/lower difficulty/better weapon. If you're running out of mana, then obviously you're not using Focus enough.

Anyway, my perks: IA4, Rainbow, crystarium 3.
My items:
Legendary Ethereal Katalox Staff of the Heaven-sent
Magnificent Phase Cap of Heimdall
Magnificent Phase Robe of Heimdall
Legendary Phase Gloves of Heimdall
Magnificent Phase Pants of Heimdall
Magnificent Phase Shoes of Heimdall

You know what the funny thing is? Even with all that gear, I still can't do IWBTH arenas that are longer than 90 rounds with great stamina. Ha ha ha.

And I probably spent about 30-40 mil on that set, give or take (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by ChosenUno: Jan 21 2013, 07:44

I couldn't IWBTH IW (at least not for exquisite+ equipment) and I don't think my equipment was terrible. Not the best, but not horrible either. I think your hate for heavy is making you exaggerate a bit.

Nah, I could regularly do Legendary with full Power. I tried out IWBTH with 3 piece power and 2 piece plate last patch, but it's too tedious. I didn't die, though. Nor run out of mana.

And it's tedious because my ping is 350ms. If it was something like <100ms, I'd never mage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:https://forums.e-hentai.org/uploads/post-245367-1358747383.png)
(IMG:https://forums.e-hentai.org/uploads/post-245367-1358747287.jpg)

Fuck the complainers, I make my own fun.

Nah, I could regularly do Legendary with full Power. I tried out IWBTH with 3 piece power and 2 piece plate last patch, but it's too tedious. I didn't die, though. Nor run out of mana.

And it's tedious because my ping is 350ms. If it was something like <100ms, I'd never mage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

meh, I guess I haven't forged my plate and estoc enough (I either use 3 or 4 plates and 2 or 1 slaughters). I can do BT but not IWBTH (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif) .

You shouldn't use protection powers. It sucks. Why? It gives less damage and PMI than plate + slaughter, while giving you much higher B/I than plate + power.

As for mana cost and mitigation, move to using more plate and less power. You reduce interference and gain PMI. Simple huh (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Sorry, but that's way exaggerated. I'm not even going to mention the absurd price of slaughter armor. I compared my gear with 3 plate (head, chest and legs) and 2 power, the difference was ~79% pmi vs 80%. The difference is just not high enough to say that IWBTH suddenly becomes easier.

As for long GFs, I'm pretty sure that 4EverLost will now clear like 900 rounds of IWBTH GF instead of 1000 like before. Big freaking deal (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yea, right, let's compare everyone to the probably best geared melee. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
What about danixxx, HTTP, Sushi? Hint: if you balance for the top 2% playerbase you're doing it wrong. (in my opinion at least)

You don't see mages going for even 300 rounds of IWBTH, do you? I don't see any discrepancy getting bigger.

Remember that while mages can go for 1000 rounds, that's on normal. We pretty much give up all hope of finding items. While melee can get both crystals AND good items. Fair?

Read again, I was talking about arenas. There is no 300 round arena. Not everyone has the time to "endlessly" grind GF. I'll agree that there are problems with GF between mage and melee (although the only data I've seen from melee is always from 4EverLost, just because he can, doesn't mean that everyone can)
I was merely saying/asking that mages became even better for arenas while melee got worse even though mages were already better.

meh, I guess I haven't forged my plate and estoc enough (I either use 3 or 4 plates and 2 or 1 slaughters). I can do BT but not IWBTH (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif) .

Estoc is probably where you should forge the most. That'll be where most of your damage comes from. I'm blessed to have an estoc with something like 95 base WD (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Having a few 22.5+ power of slaughter pieces doesn't hurt either. Or having legendary and magnificent plates of protection with max PMI (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

So does this mean Soul will be removed at some point?

That's the idea.

so...

if soul is getting removed, is there gonna be some new toys spells put in there place?

also, what about the monsters with soul attacks?

You know what the funny thing is? Even with all that gear, I still can't do IWBTH arenas that are longer than 90 rounds with great stamina. Ha ha ha.

Alright, now this is finally some information I've been asking for. Whenever I brought up arenas all I heard was stuff like "yes, mages are faster than melee" and "danixxx DwD IWBTH in 15min"... you get the idea.
Now if you can't even clear Trio with that gear, I really wonder what kind of gear those have that can.

About your melee gear, I can see how you can do fine with that. But that already some pretty good stuff I dare say, you always made it sound like IWBTH was easy with your average run-of-the-mill heavy gear.

As for your definition of Power Slaughter, no that's not how it is. I haven't seen Tenboro making a definite statement on how Power Slaughter should be, so whatever you think it is is your opinion.

It's exactly as it is. Ask all of the Power Slaughter users why they use it and then get back to me on that. And yes, my opinions because I posted what MY findings were based on MY ACTUAL play.

And yes, estoc is OP. You don't think that a weapon that has a proc that bypasses EVERY SINGLE DEFENSE a monster has is not OP? That's what a voided estoc with PA is.

You are forgetting about mobs at our levels with parry and evade, as well as all of their anti-abilities. So yes, Estoc used to give bypass, but you would still end up losing time on your buffs and letting hte mobs work your over because of that. Which was the trade-off. And now it's worse. BTW, you haven't posted your Estoc setup yet nor your experiences from it with which to base your claims.

And no, maces is not ruined. It works well, slow and safe. Doesn't mean it doesn't work. Same with scythe. It's slow(er), but it still does its job well.

Please provide some user evidence.

Now you actually have to make decisions about trade-offs as a melee and you're complaining that it's impossible already?

Did I state melee was impossible? Please quote from my posts or retract.

Anyway, my perks: IA4, Rainbow, crystarium 3.
My items:
Legendary Ethereal Katalox Staff of the Heaven-sent
Magnificent Phase Cap of Heimdall
Magnificent Phase Robe of Heimdall
Legendary Phase Gloves of Heimdall
Magnificent Phase Pants of Heimdall
Magnificent Phase Shoes of Heimdall

And I probably spent about 30-40 mil on that set, give or take (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Exactly as I thought. So you have better equipment and perks than nearly all when considering total spread of HV players. So game balance apparently only applies to exactly what you have and not what anyone else has?

My opinion of this patch stands firm on proof of my exact playing experiences, and I listed the reasons for those experiences based on the changes made, mostly negative.

- JC

This post has been edited by jcullinane: Jan 21 2013, 08:32

Ok, I underestimated difficulty of new update.
I normally play at IBWTH in random encounters, it was quite easy way to level up. One battle, one lvl... one battle took about 100 turns against 5-7 monsters and I needed 5 health potion and 5 mana potion max. and 1-5 scroll of life.

Now, it took me 242 turns against 10 monsters, I run out of potions and mana around 150th turn(only 3 monsters killed) and was capable of surviving only because huge luck and help of scroll of life (I needed well... 15 maybe (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) and around 200th turn I even run out of spirit, so spark was unusable, so I needed only luck.
Finally:

242 12 You have reached Level 104!
242 11 You gain 340 Credits!
242 10 You gain 593227 EXP!
242 9 Gate Of Babylon dropped [Godly Health Potion]
242 8 Sotha Sil dropped [Health Elixir]
242 7 Mutant Peacock dropped [Godly Mana Potion]
242 6 Pile Of Bugs dropped [Godly Mana Potion]
242 5 Cockatrice dropped [Godly Mana Potion]
242 4 Mathematical Trashcat dropped [3x Crystal of Vigor]
242 3 You are Victorious!
242 2 Cockatrice has been defeated.
242 1 You hit Cockatrice for 1279 slashing damage.

Btw, 2 lvls. up (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
EDIT:
Oh... shiit... now I realized, it wasn't 2levels up but 3 levels up.... wow, thats my record in one match (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by Imnafoy: Jan 21 2013, 08:39

Nah, I could regularly do Legendary with full Power. I tried out IWBTH with 3 piece power and 2 piece plate last patch, but it's too tedious. I didn't die, though. Nor run out of mana.

And it's tedious because my ping is 350ms. If it was something like <100ms, I'd never mage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

You're criticising all of us who feels like our defenses have become glass. However not everyone can just switch from a 40M set to another 40M set and just go on as if nothing had happened. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

And then you tell everyone to just buy a different set. However where should people get the credits from? And since almost everyone has to lower the difficulty they can play on, their drops will suck even more. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

My heavy gear is still great, I just have to stick with BT now since IWBTH is no fun to play anymore. However I have also spend about 30~40M in it.

However I can't afford a second set of that value. And I guess that prices on the new top gear will raise now. So I will just do my hourlies and stick with a lower difficulty until I have become attuned to the changes. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Mantra64: Jan 21 2013, 09:12

Anyway, my perks: IA4, Rainbow, crystarium 3.
My items:
Legendary Ethereal Katalox Staff of the Heaven-sent
Magnificent Phase Cap of Heimdall
Magnificent Phase Robe of Heimdall
Legendary Phase Gloves of Heimdall
Magnificent Phase Pants of Heimdall
Magnificent Phase Shoes of Heimdall

You know what the funny thing is? Even with all that gear, I still can't do IWBTH arenas that are longer than 90 rounds with great stamina. Ha ha ha.

And I probably spent about 30-40 mil on that set, give or take (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Holy. . . Excuse me while my brain comprehends the amount of HG Mats sunk into that.

Well, I certainly feel less bad about only barely being able to get through Nintendo T&T by the skin of my teeth postpatch with IA1, no +regen auras and my unforged Nif.

Ether Tap could be more useful if it can be gained by magic spells which kill (or hit?) a monster as primary target with CM debuff.

Currently, I only gain 20mana each turn, meaning 60mana for whole duration, which is just slightly more than the cost of a single pestilence at 80% mana cost.

This post has been edited by FiniteA: Jan 21 2013, 10:19

Wow, it must be nice being able to clear stuff on IWBTH. I'm barely able to level Superior level gear on Normal difficulty. How much time do some of you guys spend playing this game?

0.73.1

- Skyward Sword, Vital Strike and Rending Blow now all inflict a maxed stack of their respective procs.

- Ether Tap can now stack twice, and can now also re-proc while you have it.

- The duration of Ether Tap was increased by one across the board.

- Ability points from the Aura Slot upgrades can now be reset.

- Reduced time per infusion for weapon enchantments to 15 minutes. As before, you can stack multiple enchantments to increase the time for longer battles.

- Reduced time per infusion for weapon enchantments to 15 minutes. As before, you can stack multiple enchantments to increase the time for longer battles.

I want more whining in this thread .)

Just need Niten Ichiryu proficiency and I'm a happy camper.

monsters are hitting very hard now ...... very very hard
elia 501st is coming with that celestial and are hitting very hard , used both my spirit potions and still only have 189 / 940 left (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif).

Those elemental prof. why were they removed from the game , what is the use of aura's now. hehe ???


Note : i was only playing Trio and Tree only in BT . i am fearing Iwbth .

This post has been edited by AbaDe: Jan 21 2013, 11:45

Just need Niten Ichiryu proficiency and I'm a happy camper.

That would be the best thing ever... it ain't happening.

It's exactly as it is. Ask all of the Power Slaughter users why they use it and then get back to me on that. And yes, my opinions because I posted what MY findings were based on MY ACTUAL play.
You are forgetting about mobs at our levels with parry and evade, as well as all of their anti-abilities. So yes, Estoc used to give bypass, but you would still end up losing time on your buffs and letting hte mobs work your over because of that. Which was the trade-off. And now it's worse. BTW, you haven't posted your Estoc setup yet nor your experiences from it with which to base your claims.
Please provide some user evidence.
Did I state melee was impossible? Please quote from my posts or retract.
Exactly as I thought. So you have better equipment and perks than nearly all when considering total spread of HV players. So game balance apparently only applies to exactly what you have and not what anyone else has?

My opinion of this patch stands firm on proof of my exact playing experiences, and I listed the reasons for those experiences based on the changes made, mostly negative.

- JC

Fine, I'll give you my set that I used to use before this patch was applied.
Legendary Demonic Estoc of Slaughter
Magnificent Plate Helmet of Protection
Superior Power Armor of Slaughter
Magnificent Power Gauntlets of Slaughter OR Legendary Plate Gauntlets of Protection
Superior Power Greaves of Slaughter OR Magnificent Shield Greaves of Protection OR Magnificent Plate Greaves of Protection
Magnificent Plate Sabatons of Protection

Parry is a non-issue for melees. So is evade. You're able to soak up the hits and your positive mana regen usually is enough to make up for the damage taken.

A few weeks ago I took this build and went on IWBTH arenas. Result? I did not use 1 potion. Not a spirit pot, or a mana pot. I don't know about this patch, but hopefully that changes. And no I didn't spam focus to regain mana. I used Fus Ro Dah for shits and giggles (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If I had not used fus ro dah, I probably would have used about 1-2 spirit pot per arena due to Spirit Stance. The mana pot count wouldn't change though, me thinks.

And no, you did not say melee's impossible. However, you were pretty adamant about how everything except estoc were ruined and now estoc is nerfed to the ground, which is certainly NOT the case.

You're criticising all of us who feels like our defenses have become glass. However not everyone can just switch from a 40M set to another 40M set and just go on as if nothing had happened. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

And then you tell everyone to just buy a different set. However where should people get the credits from? And since almost everyone has to lower the difficulty they can play on, their drops will suck even more. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

My heavy gear is still great, I just have to stick with BT now since IWBTH is no fun to play anymore. However I have also spend about 30~40M in it.

However I can't afford a second set of that value. And I guess that prices on the new top gear will raise now. So I will just do my hourlies and stick with a lower difficulty until I have become attuned to the changes. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, if you have good ping and don't mind holding buttons a little longer, buy a set of mag/leg plates. All the mag plates I've shown on the list above cost me 500k at most, and the leg cost me 2mil. The power armors cost, I think, 3 and 6 mil respectively. The estoc cost me 2 mil when I bought it, but probably will cost about 15-20 mil now.

I'm pretty certain I can probably clear IWBTH arenas with that melee set I showed, while I'm 100% certain I still can't clear IWBTH arenas longer than 90 rounds on great stamina with my mage set...