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Holy mages used to have a comfortable life (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I use a holy stick cause it dropped.

Dark kills more mob with first hit, and make every other mob hit for less. Holy kills less, and the debuff increases our damage. We'll be dead, but hey, if you manage to survive, you can cure and then hit them for more damage!

Only to get resisted (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Dark T4 = joke
Dark T3 = Holy T3 damage wise

Celestial/Human is weak to Dark, but it doesn't have much impact on IWBTH.
Because mage's firepower/clearing turns varies too much and mostly depends on luck.

Irrelevant, Holy/Dark gets multi-hit the same. Dark takes less damage because of their Proc, and because they can kill more enemies because of higher damage.

There were a bunch of mechanoids and celestials during that time too. Holy and Dark were a bit equal in those days. But Holy was never better.

No higher damage for Dark.
The stronger ones always need luck or IMP to kill.

There are a bunch of Daemon/Undead currently (in IWBTH) too.
Holy and Dark are still mostly equal now.

This post has been edited by HTTP/308: Feb 8 2013, 02:45

Hey HTTP, you still having troll issues with mitigation and your damage not working out quite right?

This post has been edited by skillchip: Feb 8 2013, 02:44

Hey HTTP, you still having troll issues with mitigation and your damage not working out quite right?

>> 1 2 Ragnarok blasts Sakurai Kei for 39515 dark damage.
After IMP, it would be something like 500k+ for crit hit.

Not really issues.
Just that current patch doesn't appear to change mitigation for monster.

I feel that firepower is about the same with previous patch.

This post has been edited by HTTP/308: Feb 8 2013, 02:50

I will look into this treachery

I will look into this treachery

Not really a problem, if mitigation is capped or flattened at higher level.
I'm worried if it's not...

1 5 Ragnarok hits Eila Ilmatar Juutilainen 501st for 22485 dark damage. => AoE
2 5 Ragnarok blasts Aoi Phoenix for 41015 dark damage. => main target

After IMP

9 6 Ragnarok blasts Eila Ilmatar Juutilainen 501st for 225690 dark damage. => AoE
10 4 Ragnarok blasts Aoi Phoenix for 230948 dark damage. => main target

Melee side, Estoc

1 1 You crit Sakurai Kei for 852 void damage.
2 1 You crit Sakurai Kei for 9609 void damage.
3 1 You crit Sakurai Kei for 16832 void damage.
5 1 You crit Sakurai Kei for 23800 void damage.

This post has been edited by HTTP/308: Feb 8 2013, 03:05

Not really a problem, if mitigation is capped or flattened at higher level.
I'm worried if it's not...
Melee side, Estoc

So, bad news, monsters get the old formula, we get the new. YAY!!!

Good news, some monsters near your level are nearly capped (501st is one that is close)! YAY!!!

Any chance we can get the monster PMI/MMI formulas to match the players one?

This post has been edited by skillchip: Feb 8 2013, 04:06

So, bad news, monsters get the old formula, we get the new. YAY!!!

Good news, some monsters near your level are nearly capped (501st is one that is close)! YAY!!!

I think there is still much room for MMI@eila, maybe 50% or more effective firepower reduction.

Any chance we can get the monster PMI/MMI formulas to match the players one?

Directly applying player's formula would make mage OP.
Maybe something like 1-1200/(1200+k*(END+WIS/2)). k=3-6
Monster should also have a higher cap.

Or just applying the same formula and let us arm monsters (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by HTTP/308: Feb 8 2013, 04:41

I think there is still much room for MMI@eila, maybe 50% or more effective firepower reduction.
Directly applying player's formula would make mage OP.
Maybe something like 1-1200/(1200+k*(END+WIS/2)). k=3-6
Monster should also have a higher cap.

Or just applying the same formula and let us arm monsters (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

How would that make mages OP?

T1 instakills? Not really mages in general, just high level players in general.

skillchip: Yeah, every 10 points of spell prof giving 1% anti-resistance and resist shafts imperil, would overall make mages a bit weaker pure damage-wise, but looks otherwise fairly ok.

This post has been edited by Lement: Feb 8 2013, 05:07

T1 instakills? Not really mages in general, just high level players in general.

skillchip: Yeah, every 10 points of spell prof giving 1% anti-resistance and resist shafts imperil, would overall make mages a bit weaker pure damage-wise, but looks otherwise fairly ok.

As if. We'll deal at most 20% more damage, not nearly enough to insta kill any mob with tier 1.

I can't insta-kill some mobs with tier 3, on normal. I wonder where you get the illusion of tier 1 insta kill (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

95 from mits--->80% from mits <- 4x more damage.

More realistically, at 400 1000 STR/WIS and END giving way from 82% mit to 55.55% mit, increase of 2.47* damage.
Of course, applies to melees too.

EDIT: Darn those chaos token mits. Anyhow, imperil as above should be about same scale as the patch change. it is as if all players are imperiled.

This post has been edited by Lement: Feb 8 2013, 05:18

95 from mits--->80% from mits <- 4x more damage.

More realistically, at 400 1000 STR/WIS and END giving way from 82% mit to 55.55% mit, increase of 2.47* damage.
Of course, applies to melees too.

EDIT: Darn those chaos token mits. Anyhow, imperil as above should be about same scale as the patch change. it is as if all players are imperiled.

That's the best case scenario.

And yes, the chaos token mit will be unaffected. So it's going to almost make t1 into t3. but not quite.

As it stands, mages feel OP because most of the high level mages spent about 30+ million credits on their gear. I doubt there are that many melees who spent that much on their gear.

And melees these days can be just as fast as mages in some cases.

That's the best case scenario.

And yes, the chaos token mit will be unaffected. So it's going to almost make t1 into t3. but not quite.

As it stands, mages feel OP because most of the high level mages spent about 30+ million credits on their gear. I doubt there are that many melees who spent that much on their gear.

And melees these days can be just as fast as mages in some cases.

Considering that melee forge materials like slaughter, protection, ox etc cost more than mage forge materials like owl or destruction, I'd say its pretty clear melee players forge a lot more than mages do.

Considering that melee forge materials like slaughter, protection, ox etc cost more than mage forge materials like owl or destruction, I'd say its pretty clear melee players forge a lot more than mages do.

Hmm. Is that because there's more demand, or less supply, though?

For example, I've got 5 Bindings of Focus to 2 Bindings of Balance, plus a whole bunch of EDB bindings as opposed to 2 Bindings of Slaughter. Melees are all chasing after a limited number of bindings that make sense, whereas mages (depending on spell type) split up after different bindings.

Not saying you're wrong, just wondering.

Considering that melee forge materials like slaughter, protection, ox etc cost more than mage forge materials like owl or destruction, I'd say its pretty clear melee players forge a lot more than mages do.

Oh please.

Phazons cost as much as slaughter binding + repurpose actuators. HG Wood costs 2x HG Metals. Wis and int bindings are cheap because nobody really buys them. Mages don't really forge PABs until they've maxed everything else.

Not to mention phase costs way more than plate/power/shield.

And the reason mage mats are so cheap is because most of the mages have finished forging their staff/get enough from monsters/stopped playing. Not so long ago slaughter binding and destruction bending cost the same.

Dark T4 = joke

Why?

T1 instakills?

I can't even do that on NORMAL mode anymore (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

I can't even do that on NORMAL mode anymore (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

Maybe if MMI is lowered (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Why?

Slow action speed => monsters might hit you twice. It will wastes a lot of SP even if it happens infrequently.
100% proc is pointless, due to resist. Plus Dark proc is pretty useless for Dark mage: we need Holy proc.
MP cost is very high. For GF, it means out of MP. For DwD, it means waste of time, cos ET is time-consuming.

Slow action speed => monsters might hit you twice. It will wastes a lot of SP even if it happens infrequently.
100% proc is pointless, due to resist. Plus Dark proc is pretty useless for Dark mage: we need Holy proc.
MP cost is very high. For GF, it means out of MP. For DwD, it means waste of time, cos ET is time-consuming.

Do you have any damage comparison for the 2 dark spells and the 2 holy spells?